NHL-NBC TV Deal

[rwilson99]

Main problem is NHL does not promote and market there games like NFL or NBA do. People will care if you make the games seem important. ABC showed promos of the Stanley CUp like a regular season game. .

Couldn't agree more. NBA regular season promotion from Black-Eyed Peas' "Let's Get it Started" to the Jackson 5 remincient "NBA-ABC" just destroys the weird indie-rock references from John Buccigross at ESPN and lame sped up highlight reals from the NHL.

The profit sharing element of the NBC deal will encourage the NHL to push the envelope with thier network partners and create some solid promotion.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Couldn't agree more. NBA regular season promotion from Black-Eyed Peas' "Let's Get it Started" to the Jackson 5 remincient "NBA-ABC" just destroys the weird indie-rock references from John Buccigross at ESPN and lame sped up highlight reals from the NHL.

The profit sharing element of the NBC deal will encourage the NHL to push the envelope with thier network partners and create some solid promotion.

Yeah I don;t get ESPN here thank god. What I do know is ABC and the NHL did a horrible job of promoting the NHL on ABC and the Cup Finals.

If you don' market it and make people care no one will watch. If you see intresting promo's and can relate your self to the person doing it you will most probablly watch it.

 

[X0ssbar]

Where would Marty St. Louis have caught on in a 21-team league? He was let go from a Calgary squad that hadn't made the playoffs in 3-4 years at the time, and hadn't won a playoff series since 1989. In Tampa, he landed with a team in the fourth year of four consecutive 50-loss seasons as a fourth liner.

Hockey's expansion into the South (Dallas*, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Nashville, Pheonix*, Carolina*) has been more successful than the absorbtion of the WHA which brought Gretzky into the league. 2 of the 7 Southern franchises have won the Stanley Cup, while 3 of the 4 WHA franchines in tradional hockey markets have moved, and the greatest of the former WHA franchises had to sell away thier team one player at a time. (*Moved Franchises)

Demographic shifts in an affluent society that wishes to live in warmer climates dictated expansion into southern markets. While the NHL expanded south, so did the NBA (Carolina, Orlando, Miami, New Orleans, Memphis), NFL (Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston) and MLB (Miami, Tampa Bay, Arizona). Only one expansion team in each league hails from a northern market. Ottawa (NHL), Colorado (MLB), Cleveland (NFL), Colorado (MLB) since the 1990s.

The NHL did nothing but follow demographic trends in an attempt to nationalize the sport. Every southern based franchise will not succeed, but growth in these markets (largely coming from northern cities) gives these teams a much better opportunity for a future than the WHA franchises that largely came from smaller, shrinking, traditional markets.

Contraction doesn't solve any of the NHLs problems, it will only solidify the marginilization of the sport in North America.

Fantastic post rwilson99

 

[ScottyBowman]

Main problem is NHL does not promote and market there games like NFL or NBA do. People will care if you make the games seem important. ABC showed promos of the Stanley CUp like a regular season game.

NBA games they got dancers singing official theme songs, build up for the FInals from the start of the playoffs. NHL needs to promote it add exciting things to it. Have actors and Gretzky people like that doing doing commercials. Make the Stanley Cup seem like a spectacle.

I think the NBC deal will in the end be beneficial for the NHL in the long run, it might hurt them a bit right now, but this could be just a launching pad on how hockey should be marketed, and the NHL can obtain a large million dollar contract. They will never get the billions the NFL or NBA bring in. They should be happy that if there ratings climb a company will offer them $250 Million.

Do you actually think more people would watch hockey because they had a dancer? Basketball appeals to every race and every nationality, hockey generally appeals to the white guy living in the north.

 

[CarlRacki]

Where would Marty St. Louis have caught on in a 21-team league? He was let go from a Calgary squad that hadn't made the playoffs in 3-4 years at the time, and hadn't won a playoff series since 1989. In Tampa, he landed with a team in the fourth year of four consecutive 50-loss seasons as a fourth liner.

Hockey's expansion into the South (Dallas*, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Nashville, Pheonix*, Carolina*) has been more successful than the absorbtion of the WHA which brought Gretzky into the league. 2 of the 7 Southern franchises have won the Stanley Cup, while 3 of the 4 WHA franchines in tradional hockey markets have moved, and the greatest of the former WHA franchises had to sell away thier team one player at a time. (*Moved Franchises)

Demographic shifts in an affluent society that wishes to live in warmer climates dictated expansion into southern markets. While the NHL expanded south, so did the NBA (Carolina, Orlando, Miami, New Orleans, Memphis), NFL (Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston) and MLB (Miami, Tampa Bay, Arizona). Only one expansion team in each league hails from a northern market. Ottawa (NHL), Colorado (MLB), Cleveland (NFL), Colorado (MLB) since the 1990s.

The NHL did nothing but follow demographic trends in an attempt to nationalize the sport. Every southern based franchise will not succeed, but growth in these markets (largely coming from northern cities) gives these teams a much better opportunity for a future than the WHA franchises that largely came from smaller, shrinking, traditional markets.

Contraction doesn't solve any of the NHLs problems, it will only solidify the marginilization of the sport in North America.

Excellent post. Using facts and examples to support one's postion, who'd have thunk it possible? Of course, you're certainly not on par with the brilliant position that only white guys in the north like hockey.

 

[CarlRacki]

Do you actually think more people would watch hockey because they had a dancer? Basketball appeals to every race and every nationality, hockey generally appeals to the white guy living in the north.

That must explain why Dallas, LA and Tampa outdrew Ottawa, Calgary and Boston last year.

 

[BLONG7]

Do you actually think more people would watch hockey because they had a dancer? Basketball appeals to every race and every nationality, hockey generally appeals to the white guy living in the north.

Take a look in the crowd next time you go to a game...I realize you're key word here is generally but...

 

[HckyFght*]

I agree. I just think its a shame Bettman gets off scott free by most people here.

One other point: you say the league has to become more attractive to TV, and the 1994 Rangers could have been the start. I agree. thye need strong teams in the big markets. So lets have a salary cap which allows those big markets more access to star players through free agency.

I think Bettman is the devil, or a close relation. But I think the league would be foolish to fire him before this deal gets done. Then I would make him the league's CBA council and elevate a hockey man to the commissioner's office to return the on-ice game to some semblance of respectability. As far as the notion that more free agents should be available so teams like the Rangers can flourish is concerned, you're sniffing glue...
-HckyFght!

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

http://www.hockeyresearch.com/mfoster/business/nhl_attn.html Count on there how many times Winnepeg's average attendance was higher than the teams you mentioned

1st of all, Winnipeg Arena held 15,393 so it could never look like it has huge attendance
2nd, it was a dump

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Phoenix doesnt have support? You might want to check out their attendance numbers, they are very solid in comparison to the league average, and much better than the previous location of the franchise.

not really, avg. attendance in Phoenix is 14,595 including 13,538 the last 3 years and thats paid attendance.....not really great

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Hockey's expansion into the South (Dallas*, Tampa, Miami, Atlanta, Nashville, Pheonix*, Carolina*) has been more successful than the absorbtion of the WHA which brought Gretzky into the league. 2 of the 7 Southern franchises have won the Stanley Cup, while 3 of the 4 WHA franchines in tradional hockey markets have moved, and the greatest of the former WHA franchises had to sell away thier team one player at a time. (*Moved Franchises)

Successful?
Dallas has the corporate support and the money to buy themselves a great team and a cup in '99. Tampa sucked for so many years that they got great draft picks (which is the way to do it) but their attendance was nothing special.

Miami can barely sell 2 for 1 seats and were threating free beer with purchase of a ticket. The Carolina Hurricanes are dead. Atlanta already had a crack at the NHL and proved they didn't want it, and Nashville averaged 13,228 last year. Pittsburgh would've been dead if Mario didn't save the franchise twice and I already talked about Phoenix.

Differance between the WHA franchises and the expansion ones is the corporate support in places like Dallas where the city is so huge.
Like I said before, the reason that the Jets and Nordiques are gone is because they city couldn't afford to built new arena so they were forced to sell your team to American owners.
They then went to city's where they'd get their new arenas where they take all the profits from concessions and such.

 

[hockeytown9321]

I think Bettman is the devil, or a close relation. But I think the league would be foolish to fire him before this deal gets done. Then I would make him the league's CBA council and elevate a hockey man to the commissioner's office to return the on-ice game to some semblance of respectability. As far as the notion that more free agents should be available so teams like the Rangers can flourish is concerned, you're sniffing glue...
-HckyFght!

Why do you think the NBA rigged their draft so Patrick Ewing went to the Knicks?

 

[Dadof5boys]

1st of all, Winnipeg Arena held 15,393 so it could never look like it has huge attendance
2nd, it was a dump

1. So why wasn't there even 1 season with an attendance of 15,393...heck why didn't they have at least one year with over 13,700?
2. Excuses... the Igloo is a dump yet they have had decent attendance.
3. It takes a little while to develpe a fan base. Winnipeg had 17 years to develope a fan base yet still never had the attendance figures as some of the "non hockey" markets; some of these markets have only been around for 5-6 years.
Fact is winning covers a multitude of sins. If a team wins on a semi-consistant basis, the fans will show up whether the team be in Calgary, Vancouver, St. Louis, Dallas, or Tampa Bay.

 

[Dadof5boys]

Successful?
Dallas has the corporate support and the money to buy themselves a great team and a cup in '99. Tampa sucked for so many years that they got great draft picks (which is the way to do it) but their attendance was nothing special.

Miami can barely sell 2 for 1 seats and were threating free beer with purchase of a ticket. The Carolina Hurricanes are dead. Atlanta already had a crack at the NHL and proved they didn't want it, and Nashville averaged 13,228 last year. Pittsburgh would've been dead if Mario didn't save the franchise twice and I already talked about Phoenix.

Differance between the WHA franchises and the expansion ones is the corporate support in places like Dallas where the city is so huge.
Like I said before, the reason that the Jets and Nordiques are gone is because they city couldn't afford to built new arena so they were forced to sell your team to American owners.
They then went to city's where they'd get their new arenas where they take all the profits from concessions and such.

Hmm Kind of like these attendance numbers eh? 12 thousand fans WTF Edmonton needs to be contracted

--------------- 92-93 93-94 94-95 96-97 97-98
Edmonton Oilers 14797 13478 13124 12335 16044

 

[Dadof5boys]

BTW I really don't think the Oilers or any team for that matter be contracted. Just using the same logic that a lot of people on these boards use for the reason for contraction.

 

[NJD Jester]

Demographic shifts in an affluent society that wishes to live in warmer climates dictated expansion into southern markets. While the NHL expanded south, so did the NBA (Carolina, Orlando, Miami, New Orleans, Memphis), NFL (Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston) and MLB (Miami, Tampa Bay, Arizona). Only one expansion team in each league hails from a northern market. Ottawa (NHL), Colorado (MLB), Cleveland (NFL), Colorado (MLB) since the 1990s.

The NHL did nothing but follow demographic trends in an attempt to nationalize the sport. Every southern based franchise will not succeed, but growth in these markets (largely coming from northern cities) gives these teams a much better opportunity for a future than the WHA franchises that largely came from smaller, shrinking, traditional markets.

Contraction doesn't solve any of the NHLs problems, it will only solidify the marginilization of the sport in North America.

But that marginilization is a very real thing, and that's why Carolina, Miami, Anaheim and Nashville could be contracted today and the majority of hockey fans wouldn't give it a second thought.

The Hurricanes have been a disaster, in nearly every aspect of the franchise. Florida doesn't need two hockey teams; California doesn't need three. Nashville is a tough one, because I really feel there's potential for that market to grow into one that embraces the sport. But that would require the NHL to stop catering to the figure skating fans and get back to the kind of marketing the Predators used upon their initial debut, where the most marketed player on the team was nicknamed "The Grim Reaper."

Contracting two teams and relocated two more would be great for hockey. Put a franchise in the Pacific Northwest and one in the American Southwest (Vegas, maybe a second franchise in Texas?).

<JESTER>

 

[BAdvocate]

But that marginilization is a very real thing, and that's why Carolina, Miami, Anaheim and Nashville could be contracted today and the majority of hockey fans wouldn't give it a second thought.
<JESTER>

It's ironic that 2 of those teams have been to the Stanley Cup Finals in the past 5 years. And I'm sure you would have included Tampa Bay had they not won the Cup last year.

Maybe they should contract the Maple Leafs as they never get anywhere yet contribute to the grossly overpaid salaries.

I bet the majority of hocky fans in Carolina, Miami, Anaheim, and Nashville would be thrilled to oust such an irresponsible ownership group. I bet Lou would be happy to see them go.

 

[NJD Jester]

It's ironic that 2 of those teams have been to the Stanley Cup Finals in the past 5 years. And I'm sure you would have included Tampa Bay had they not won the Cup last year.

Maybe they should contract the Maple Leafs as they never get anywhere yet contribute to the grossly overpaid salaries.

I bet the majority of hocky fans in Carolina, Miami, Anaheim, and Nashville would be thrilled to oust such an irresponsible ownership group. I bet Lou would be happy to see them go.

Contraction has nothing to do with what happens on the ice. Anaheim's attendance has been in the dumper for the last several years, although there was a small uptick after the Cup Finals appearance. Tampa Bay has made a larger imprint on its market than the Panthers, and that was before the Cup. Nashville, like I said, is one I'd like to give more time. But how can anyone — hockey fan, business major, player, owner, animal, mineral or vegetable — honestly look at Carolina and not think that franchise either needs a new market or a permanent vacation?

 

[HckyFght*]

Karmanos, owner of the 'Canes, is an interesting cat. He lives near Detroit and is a big player there as the founder of Compuware and cancer charities. Why he bought the Whalers in the first place is anyone's guess. He also sits on important committees at the league and is a major player in the NHL. Being from Detroit I guess he's a huge hockey fan and wanted to own a team. Don't blame him, wouldn't it be cool to own an NHL team? But Karmanos, a relative newcomer (1994) ascended so high so fast, buying a team with arguably the leagues worst profile, is intrigueing. His team is never excluded when contraction is mentioned. Any thoughts?
-HckyFght!

 

[rwilson99]

Contraction has nothing to do with what happens on the ice. Anaheim's attendance has been in the dumper for the last several years, although there was a small uptick after the Cup Finals appearance. Tampa Bay has made a larger imprint on its market than the Panthers, and that was before the Cup. Nashville, like I said, is one I'd like to give more time. But how can anyone — hockey fan, business major, player, owner, animal, mineral or vegetable — honestly look at Carolina and think that franchise either needs a new market or a permanent vacation?

Carolina is only two years removed from making the Cup Finals and have done nothing to become economically viable for the long term. Moving the team to Houston, Portland or Seattle wouldn't be a bad idea.

Like I mentioned before, hockey will not necessarily succeed in all markets. North Carolina is considered a basketball hotbed, but the Hornets left Charlotte a few years ago and it wasn't a sign of the end of the world for the NBA.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For years there has been rumblings, discussions, rumors, etc. of the NHL expanding or relocating to cities such as Portland, OR; Seattle, WA; Houston, TX; Kansas City, MO; Hamilton, ONT... off the top of my head those are the cities most often mentioned when talks of expansion or relocating has come up.

I don't know what impact the NHL will have on those cities or what benefits having professional clubs in those cities brings to the NHL on a national level.
Kansas City is going to have a new arena built (with some financial help from current Los Angeles Kings owner Philip Anschutz, who also owns the Staples Center).
Expanding the league from 30 teams to 32 or more isn't in the league's plans as far as I know... so I think it is inevitable that at some point within the next couple years, one or more franchise will be relocating.

 

[YellHockey*]

Only one expansion team in each league hails from a northern market. Ottawa (NHL), Colorado (MLB), Cleveland (NFL), Colorado (MLB) since the 1990s.

You forgot Columbus and Minnesota in the NHL.

 

[rwilson99]

You forgot Columbus and Minnesota in the NHL.

Doh! Original post corrected. Thanks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

More on the new arena being built in Kansas City, MO and the possibility of it attracting an NHL team...

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2004/07/19/daily34.html?jst=s_cn_hl
"At a news conference at Sprint's Overland Park headquarters, CEO Gary Forsee said he expects to land an NBA or NHL team and also anticipates the Big 12 Conference's basketball tournament returning to Kansas City after the arena's scheduled opening in 2007."

You can also news on the construction, financing of the new arena here, http://www.downtownarena.com/news.htm

What do most of you think of the NHL possibly having another team in Missouri?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

KC had the Scouts back in the 70s, didn't fly there