NHL may be prepared to eat its young

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Sp5618

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Nov 26, 2004
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arnie said:
Aha! You've identified the problem. Except for one thing. If this is true, then at least 10 teams don't belong in the NHL. Of course, you can't make comparisonsbased solely on the Toronto market. They are an exception, the real powerhouse of the NHL money-wise. No one else even comes close. Perhaps it is Toronto, not Pittsburgh that is the anomaly and should get kicked out.

The statement was qualified by..."without NFL-style revenue sharing (read big TV contract)"....then, yes there are several teams that do not belong in the same league.


Refer to both the estimates of NHL franchise values (e.g., Forbes) or to the offer from Bain where it appears there are roughly three tiers of teams. http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050525-102642-5648r.htm

Per Forbes, the lowest level was ~$100 MM that applies to about 10 teams. The second group has values somewhere between ~$120-175 MM, if memory serves correctly, and finally the top 9 are in the $220-260 MM range...I am too lazy to look up the exact numbers now, but we have all seen them here before too.

You may be right, that Toronto does not belong in the same league with Pittsburgh, but it does belong in the NHL, at least the original one with its original brethren. It can be argued that several franchises have proven they can survive in the "Toronto-centric" league with these original six (Philly, Colorado, Dallas, LA, St. Louis, Vancouver, NJ, the Isles...) and then it gets a bit sketchy.

Buffalo and Ottawa had horrible mgt/ownership and may yet be able to compete? Pittsburgh needs a new arena or a new market.

So it is possible that we both are right. We need two leagues. I guess I would like to claim the "NHL" brand, since the teams in my version of League One were there first :)
 

Boltsfan2029

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Jul 8, 2002
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In deleted threads
The Messenger said:
Why does it cost $25 bucks to see a game in Pittsburgh

Are those seats in the parking lot? :) We flew up to Pittsburgh for a game during the 2002-2003 season. Our seats were about 15 rows from the roof and cost $80. They were higher up and more than twice as expensive as many third level seats in Tampa. Where I have my season seats -- 5th row off the ice behind the goal the Bolts attack twice -- the price is $75 walk-up (and I think that's outrageous, imagine the reaction when we saw $80 for seats in Pittsburgh that practically required oxygen masks...).

and $200 in Toronto if both teams have similar payrolls ?? and the only difference is the arena they play the game in ??

Because the people in Toronto are willing to pay it. Pretty much just that simple. If no one would pay $200, the place would be empty and the prices would drop. But as long as there are good folks who will cough up that much, they're gonna charge it.
 

HockeyCritter

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Dec 10, 2004
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I think the $25 for Pittsburgh is the season ticketholder price where the $200 figure quoted for Toronto is gate price . . . . . .
 

SENSible1*

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HockeyCritter said:
I think the $25 for Pittsburgh is the season ticketholder price where the $200 figure quoted for Toronto is gate price . . . . . .

I think they are just numbers Massager pulled out of his butt.
 

HockeyCritter

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Dec 10, 2004
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I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt . . . . but I guess I shouldn't do that any more. . . . ;)
 

Strangelove

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I found that ticket-price discrepancy is not so great.
http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nhl_03-04.cfm.

Some more good news for Messenger is that the new CBA might make a franchise in Hamilton feasible. This would give NHL fans in the area a cheaper option. Also, the competition a Hamilton franchise would bring might cause Leaf ticket prices to come down.

And then there's the very real possibility that when the Leaves are forced to slash payroll.... in the New CBA World.... that they will blow mightily and miss the playoffs a few years running. This would no doubt lead to a substancial ticket-price reduction, as attendance would fall off (especially if there was a winning Hamilton team down the road). See, the fans would resent the fact that MLSEL was raking in huge profits, while icing an inferior hockey team.

So see Messenger? There is hope that ticket-price parity is just around the corner.


Dare to dream buddy, dare to dream.....

:)
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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ToeBlake said:
I found that ticket-price discrepancy is not so great.
http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nhl_03-04.cfm.

Some more good news for Messenger is that the new CBA might make a franchise in Hamilton feasible. This would give NHL fans in the area a cheaper option. Also, the competition a Hamilton franchise would bring might cause Leaf ticket prices to come down.

And then there's the very real possibility that when the Leaves are forced to slash payroll.... in the New CBA World.... that they will blow mightily and miss the playoffs a few years running. This would no doubt lead to a substancial ticket-price reduction, as attendance would fall off (especially if there was a winning Hamilton team down the road). See, the fans would resent the fact that MLSEL was raking in huge profits, while icing an inferior hockey team.

So see Messenger? There is hope that ticket-price parity is just around the corner.


Dare to dream buddy, dare to dream.....

:)
Speaking of dreaming .. If you think attendance will ever drop off then you have had too much to drink.

Toronto has sold out ever homw game for well over a decade or more.

We have had a year long Lockout and you know how many season ticket holders of the 16,000+ have given up their seats in a recent report

*** ZERO ***

The demand in Toronto is so high Leafs could increase ticket prices and slash players and fan wouldn't complain ..

Being a Leaf is a passing fancy ,its a way of life and everything else revolves around them.
 

Strangelove

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:dunno:


I was just trying to help there Mess.....


The Messenger said:
The demand in Toronto is so high Leafs could increase ticket prices and slash players and fan wouldn't complain ..

Promise?


;)
 

misterjaggers

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Sep 7, 2003
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The Duke City
Newsguyone said:
barnburner said:
I don't care how good they are - let them earn their way. Whatever big money there is available should be going to the players that have paid their dues and proven themselves.


NO offense, but this line of thinking, shared by many on these boards, is hogwash.

Salaries aren't only about performance and statistic.

If you don't want Crosby and Ovechkin and the hype/merchandising/ticketsales the bring, then leave them for the owner who appreciates them.

I am getting so sick and tired of reading opinions about why so and so shouldn't make so much money.
Invariably, they come with the "if you don't like it, leave it).

It's so funny watching guys in the draft threads trip over themselves arguing why their team deserves a better shot at Crosby.
But over here, the same people say he's not worth $1.7Million a year.

It's moronic.
Of course, if Ovechkin elects to play in Russia, he'll kiss the big endorsement deals 'bye bye'.
 
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