NHL II - It will take 5 years to replace top 100 NHL players-rest are interchangable

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Wetcoaster

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mr gib said:
funny you should mention poker - when did it become a sport? -
Whatever you may characterize it as - it apparently has higher TV ratings in the US than the NHL.

On July 8, the Worldwide Leader in Sports pulled a 2.0 rating for its first show in the 2004 WSOP series -- nearly double the ratings that the opening games of the 2004 Stanley Cup Finals received. Scary.

Thank god Bettman has done such a great job marketing the game and obtained that killer TV deal. :shakehead
 

mr gib

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Wetcoaster said:
Whatever you may characterize it as - it apparently has higher TV ratings in the US than the NHL.

On July 8, the Worldwide Leader in Sports pulled a 2.0 rating for its first show in the 2004 WSOP series -- nearly double the ratings that the opening games of the 2004 Stanley Cup Finals received. Scary.

Thank god Bettman has done such a great job marketing the game and obtained that killer TV deal. :shakehead
wacky - poker seems to be everywhere - stellar job gary -
 

Mountain Dude

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I agree, shut down this NHL and say **** you to the NHLPA, start a new league with the salary cap, call it the IHL, keep all the rights to prospects, and tell the players that were the NHLPA, come here and get the best deal in the world, or go **** yourselfs.
 

eye

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go kim johnsson said:
Each team is going to spend $32M on replacement players? I don't think so. There won't be enough players crossing and there won't be enough people watching for this to work.

As soon as a few cross the line all others will follow. Even if they don't it won't be a 32M payroll as linkage will reduce the salary floor to about half that amount if replacement players make up the majority of the league. It would take no more than 5 years to bring the NHL pretty well back to what it is now even if nobody crosses the line. IMO, ticket prices would be just slightly higher than AHL prices are now and players under 2 way contracts currently in the AHL would become NHL players right away.

How many of the 100 or so NHL playrs in the AHL are standing out from the rest of the league. Not too many. How many current AHL players have played in the NHL. I would guess at least 40%. Reduce NHL rosters from 23 to 18 and the average fan will not notice a huge change in the caliber of play.
 

Wetcoaster

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eye said:
As soon as a few cross the line all others will follow. Even if they don't it won't be a 32M payroll as linkage will reduce the salary floor to about half that amount if replacement players make up the majority of the league. It would take no more than 5 years to bring the NHL pretty well back to what it is now even if nobody crosses the line. IMO, ticket prices would be just slightly higher than AHL prices are now and players under 2 way contracts currently in the AHL would become NHL players right away.

How many of the 100 or so NHL playrs in the AHL are standing out from the rest of the league. Not too many. How many current AHL players have played in the NHL. I would guess at least 40%. Reduce NHL rosters from 23 to 18 and the average fan will not notice a huge change in the caliber of play.
The problem is any of those AHL players who are Canadian or European will not be able to play for any of the US based teams because of immigration laws.

The number of replacements is significantly restricted because of the international nature of the player pool.

US based teams will be resticted to American players - not too likely they will be able to fill the rosters with any degree of skill. You will be watching beer league hockey.
 

Wetcoaster

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mr gib said:
wacky - poker seems to be everywhere - stellar job gary -
How about rather than shootout to decide games the two team captains play a hand of Texas Hold'em at centre ice for the win? That should increase ratings. :eek:
 

eye

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Wetcoaster said:
The problem is any of those AHL players who are Canadian or European will not be able to play for any of the US based teams because of immigration laws.

The number of replacements is significantly restricted because of the international nature of the player pool.

US based teams will be resticted to American players - not too likely they will be able to fill the rosters with any degree of skill. You will be watching beer league hockey.

While I respect your legal opinion Wetcoaster I suspect that the legal crew the owners have working for them have this one covered. So many jobs count on the NHL being played that a little political pressure can go a long way to getting this issue resolved.

I don't think that working visa problems are as big an issue as you indicate.
 

Wetcoaster

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eye said:
While I respect your legal opinion Wetcoaster I suspect that the legal crew the owners have working for them have this one covered. So many jobs count on the NHL being played that a little political pressure can go a long way to getting this issue resolved.

I don't think that working visa problems are as big an issue as you indicate.
I have worked with immigration laws since 1976 and I have taught the subject at law school and to other lawyers in Continuing Legal Education courses in Canada and the US. There are not many lawyers with immigration, sports and labour law expertise as a combination.

The work permits are a huge issue and there is no way around them since immigration law absolutely forbids work permits being issued to foreign nationals when a labour dispute is in progress. It is a law of general application and there is no discretion. Both Us and Canadian immigration law have the same prohibition.

The PHPA used the tactic in its last labour dispute with the ECHL. Not only were work permits not being issued, those that had been issued were pulled.
 

thinkwild

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One of the things one of these tv experts said, i cant remember which, was that recent court decisions, perhaps even the Flood case itself, actually made decertification harder. Did anyone catch this.

One of the links here talked about the rule of reason for whether a cap or impasse restrains or promotes competition. I wonder what reasoned reason would reason in this specific case.
 

eye

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Wetcoaster said:
I have worked with immigration laws since 1976 and I have taught the subject at law school and to other lawyers in Continuing Legal Education courses in Canada and the US. There are not many lawyers with immigration, sports and labour law expertise as a combination.

The work permits are a huge issue and there is no way around them since immigration law absolutely forbids work permits being issued to foreign nationals when a labour dispute is in progress. It is a law of general application and there is no discretion. Both Us and Canadian immigration law have the same prohibition.

The PHPA used the tactic in its last labour dispute with the ECHL. Not only were work permits not being issued, those that had been issued were pulled.


Thanks for the explanation but AHL and ECHL players already have working visas do they not?. I take back by last accusation on another thread and apologize for my comment on your background. Where do you find the time to post all the information that you do?
 

Wetcoaster

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eye said:
Thanks for the explanation but AHL and ECHL players already have working visas do they not?. I take back by last accusation on another thread and apologize for my comment on your background. Where do you find the time to post all the information that you do?

The work visas are different for minor pro and the NHL.

You need a work permit to play for a particular team. They are not generic. Also the visas issued to NHL players are a non-quota visa (i.e unlimited numbers) under the P-1 visa category.

For any athletic team to petition for a foreign athlete for a P-1 visa, the team must have achieved international recognition in the sport. US immigration authorities have defined “international recognition†as a “having a high level of achievement in a field evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition substantially above that ordinarily encountered, to the extent that such achievement is renowned, leading, or well-known in more than one country.†This applies to the NHL. It does not apply to the minor leagues.

P-1 visa applicants need to obtain an advisory opinion from a "peer group," labor organization, or management organization in the area of the alien's ability. This can be avoided if the petitioner is requesting expeditious handling of the O or P petition, an appropriate entity does not exist or a consultation has taken place within the two previous years. In the case of the NHL this advisory opinion is on file.

The team must file a petiton on behalf of the specific player. It is a very quick process for the most part at the NHL level. Athletic teams receive an initial approval period for the time needed to complete the competition, not to exceed one year. An unlimited number of one-year extensions can be granted to athletic teams.

Because the NHL is internationally recognized as the premeir professional hockey league in the world and the US INS has all the necessary documentation filed previously to back that up, all that is usually required is the completed petition and the executed player contract with the team with reference to the already filed materials on international recognition.

In the minor leagues a quota visa known as an H2-B visa is used. When the quota is used up (66,000 per year are granted in a number of industries) - as has happened this year in the ECHL - no more visas.

Under US immigration law work permits cannot be issued at all during a labour dispute and those previously issued are revoked. This is what occurred during the ECHL labour dispute.

Here is Alan Panzeris of the Ottawa Citizen newpaper on this point:
It is called, by the union for minor-league hockey players, which used it two years ago, the "immigration" card.

It is also one the National Hockey League Players' Association would likely play if the NHL tried to restart with replacement players.

Of all the legal hoops the NHL would have to jump through before it could get its impasse -- the first step in unilaterally setting its own terms and restarting with replacement players -- the ones it probably won't get through are immigration laws in Canada and the United States.

Neither country will issue work visas to workers who are coming to take the jobs of those on strike or involved in labour disputes, and that includes hockey players.

...(T)he border was effectively shut [during the ECHL labour dispute]. The U.S. would not issue work visas to those hoping to come in as replacement workers, would not extend visas and would rescind visas that had already been issued.

That is a huge stumbling block for stocking the US teams.

That also means any Canadians playing minor league hockey in the US could not play for US based NHL teams as replacement players.
 
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