NHL files unfair labor practice against NHLPA to NLRB

[Mess]

Where does the article mention that they are working with players when they filed this complaint?

With any lawsuit you have to name the claimants ... The NHL does not have to give anything back.

I clearly see this as an issue of a Player(s) and his Union .. Why the NHL is even involved is confusing .. The NHL lockouts the player(s) withholding millions in guaranteed salaries and now is concerned if the player has to repay 70 K to his Union in strike pay? The player is more concerned about the Strike pay then the NHL contract amount .., when if the NHL is found of UNFAIR labour practices may be forced to repay last year player salaries, but again its this minimal strike pay that is an issue ??

They have to be filing this on behalf of a player(s) .. They are the ones being threatened and then how does the NHL even know what was said behind Union closed doors unless they are talking directly to the players themselves who told them what was said .. WE all have watched enough Law and Order to know that is "HEAR SAY" and isn't even allowed in court .. if there is such a lawsuit then the player himself would have to testify ..

I don't think the NHL filed anything .. I bet some Owners is just yanking Al Strachan or some media guys chain and he is running with it .. Just like we have a Deal type articles, purposely leaks to stir up the players and the NHLPA .. Now the NHLPA has to do damage control and tell 700 members that this is all a big act ..

Until a player crosses a picket line and is demanded to repay strike pay its a none issue anyways ... How can you file a claim for something that never happened yet? ..He can't even consider crossing until an Impasse is ruled by the NHL .. How do we know that event will even happen ?? ..Talk about the Cart before the Horse story here ..

 

[Jarqui]

With any lawsuit you have to name the claimants ... The NHL does not have to give anything back.

But it isn't a lawsuit. It is a complaint to the NLRB.

I clearly see this as an issue of a Player(s) and his Union .. Why the NHL is even involved is confusing .. The NHL lockouts the player(s) withholding millions in guaranteed salaries and now is concerned if the player has to repay 70 K to his Union in strike pay? The player is more concerned about the Strike pay then the NHL contract amount .., when if the NHL is found of UNFAIR labour practices may be forced to repay last year player salaries, but again its this minimal strike pay that is an issue ??

They have to be filing this on behalf of a player(s) .. They are the ones being threatened and then how does the NHL even know what was said behind Union closed doors unless they are talking directly to the players themselves who told them what was said .. WE all have watched enough Law and Order to know that is "HEAR SAY" and isn't even allowed in court .. if there is such a lawsuit then the player himself would have to testify ..

I don't think the NHL filed anything .. I bet some Owners is just yanking Al Strachan or some media guys chain and he is running with it .. Just like we have a Deal type articles, purposely leaks to stir up the players and the NHLPA .. Now the NHLPA has to do damage control and tell 700 members that this is all a big act ..

Until a player crosses a picket line and is demanded to repay strike pay its a none issue anyways ... How can you file a claim for something that never happened yet? ..He can't even consider crossing until an Impasse is ruled by the NHL .. How do we know that event will even happen ?? ..Talk about the Cart before the Horse story here ..

Surely it is abundantly clear that this complaint affects both the players (employees if you will) and the owners ability to exercise an option of hiring of replacement players should the impasse reach that point.

 

[Munchausen]

But by the nature of a strike .. You are not really suppose to cross a Picket line .. The Picket line is in place because your Union is fighting for you ..

The strange part on my thinking is WHO is filing ... I could see a player filing it against his Union ie Rob Ray did by not receiving Lockout pay .. but this is the NHL filing a grievance on behalf of players that they are locking out currently forcing them to accept this pay in the first place ..

The NHL is looking after the owners, why would it file on behalf of the players is the strange part .. ?? What if the player himself decides he should repay the money?? What if no player crosses ??

Also .. the timing is strange ... Right now its just talk .. No player can cross so should this not be a possible issue down the road when valid .. ?? How can you file Unfair labour practices for something that hasn't happened or can't happen currently??

Just the threat of doing this constitutes unfair labor practice IMO, because it compromises the chances of the NHL luring some players back during a possile strike.

Any threat of this sort in a labor dispute is unfair labor practice. The league is not asking this on behalf of the players, they only have their interests at heart here, which is to be able to hire NHLers in disagreement with their union during impasse.

It's fair game and you can be sure that if the owners threaten certain players to, for example, cut them off once the NHL resumes, you can be sure the PA will go to the NLRB using the same tactic. This thing will only get uglier.

 

[Mess]

But it isn't a lawsuit. It is a complaint to the NLRB.



Surely it is abundantly clear that this complaint affects both the players (employees if you will) and the owners ability to exercise an option of hiring of replacement players should the impasse reach that point.

How So?? ..

The NHL would have no indication of who will cross and they certainly can't make them cross should the opportunity arise .. So why would the NHL be concerned about repaying strike pay by the player who may or may not cross??

 

[Icey]

Actually in the U.S. Good Friday is not a big holiday. Schools, work and even the mail gets delivered. And it is more than a few thousand for some of the players. The players should make their own decision without corision by either side.

Just because schools are open and mailed get delivered does not mean Good Friday is not a big holiday. Don't know what religion you are, but it is the most religious holiday in the Catholic religion. It is a very big religious holiday, however state, federal and city offices are not allowed to observe religious holidays and that is why they are mostly all open. Public schools around me are all closed for spring break this entire week.

But the NHLPA looks more like the mafia every day.

 

[JohnnyB11]

notice when this came out, right after the players meetings concluded.

the draft cancellation and now this lawsuit, I think the NHL may be getting desperate and angry. bettman is really under the pressure to end this thing NOW.

Wrong. Pressure to end this would lead to the NHL caving to player demands. Player demands are way too high, plain and simple. Otherwise this war would be over by now.

Desperate? More like the NHL is sick of waiting for a reasonable offer from the PA, therefore they aer moving forward. Hopefulyl this is the beginning of the end.

 

[JohnnyB11]

when will the NHL put a real offer on the table?

You've got to be joking right? Trevor Linden, is that you???

The best offer the players were gonna get has come and gone, somehow the PA thinks the longer this drags on the better deal they'll get, which defies all business sense. Time to pay the piper guys.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

LOL.

Gary just told Bob to eat it.

This is the smartest way to go about it, if the NLRB files in favour, then impasse is free and clear, if they don't, then the NHL loses nothing.

I smell a 35m cap and 25% rollback coming. Haha.

I was also thinking about this, but I hope the new CBA has agent restriction rules in place. Like agents representing players are restricted from having more than 5% of the contract with a 250k max limit per player. That way, agents won't have any reason to try for more than 5 million dollar contracts.

 

[mr gib]

You've got to be joking right? Trevor Linden, is that you???

The best offer the players were gonna get has come and gone, somehow the PA thinks the longer this drags on the better deal they'll get, which defies all business sense. Time to pay the piper guys.

we'll see - guys like you make me yack - when they start playing again - don't come

 

[kdb209]

Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
Where does the article mention that they are working with players when they filed this complaint?

well, they obviously must have some players ready to step forward and testify for their case otherwise they have a baseless argument

that being said, if a player does not trust their union anymore, then i don't see why its unfair for them to turn to the league for help.

No. The league isn't (and doesn't have to) doing this on behalf of any specific player - it is just arguing that the NHLPA's threat to demand repayment of the lockout funds is in itself an unfair labor tactic. It is designed to explicitly discourage a player from crossing and being a replacement player if that player decides to (which is his legal right). This is really no different from the league threatening the future of any player who does not cross - that too would be blatant unfair labor charge.

The agent charge is more likely a real unfair practice that would be ruled against - it is a blatant conflict of interest that the union (and only the union) gets to decide on agent certification and can use that as a hammer to prevent an agent (and the player he represents) from legally excercising his rights to represent (and play as) a replacement player. But this may only be a moot point - the fact that agents must be certified by the NHLPA was merely a term of the last (expired) CBA. A term that can (and probably will be) modified in any future negotiated or imposed CBA. The current terms force an agent to act in the interests of the PA rather than in the interest of the client he represents. A fairer solution would have agents certified either by an impatial 3rd party or a joint commision appointed by both the league and PA with specific criteria (ethical, experience, etc) for certification, rather than leaving it as a political whim of one side or the other.

 

[Jarqui]

How So?? ..

The NHL would have no indication of who will cross and they certainly can't make them cross should the opportunity arise .. So why would the NHL be concerned about repaying strike pay by the player who may or may not cross??

If the NHL came out and said, we'll give a $1 million bonus to every NHLer who walks out on the NHLPA, would you have a problem with that ? Most would.

The issue is that financially penalizing a player for electing to be a replacement player taints his decision process. A more extreme example would be if Goodenow said he'll give a $1 million to the first 51% of the players who stick with him through some election/decision.

The NHL have a legitimate concern and so do any players who would contemplate being a replacement player. The complaint/concern is that you can't throw money at the problem to sway the result with a group of union members - particularly, in this case if it is money provided during a period when the player had stuck with the union. Whether it is a payoff or a penalty, it amounts to financial incentive.

Whether that holds up in front of the NLRB, is another story. But the original point stands - the NHL has an interest in shooting down that policy - whether you agree with the NHL or not.

 

[HockeyCritter]

well goodnows just doing his job
bettman on the other hand is failing miserably

How do you figure that?

The League is calling out the PA on its strong arm intimation tactics - - i.e. the PA telling the players that if you cross you'll have to pay back the money given to yo for the 04/05 season. Unless the players signed an agreement before accepting that money, I don't see how the PA could demand the return of the funds if the players elected to become replacement players.

 

[R0CKET]

well goodnows just doing his job

Yeah he did one hell of a bang up job there right?

I mean the players won't miss their 1.5 Billion he lost them this year will they?

And anyhow they will make it all up with his master-stroke of genius negotiating ploy.

His loss of their money for whatever reason will be discussed for a long, long, long time.

And just what did they gain for their investment?

They don't even know.

Goodenow is a complete a$$.

 

[Hockeyfan02]

I dont like the NHL's move on this one. To me it shows that theyre not looking to make a deal now, theyre looking to go to Impasse and replacement players no matter what at this point. Although, in some eyes that's been the goal all along.

 

[Cropduster]

I have to admit I am a little late on getting word of this and reading you guys' posts, but I am somewhat happy about this. I dont mean strategically for one side or the other, just the fact that this will now start hitting the courts in one way or another. This stalemate is so old and way overdue. I dont really care who's on the owners side/players side, legal action needs to be taken. The courts will settle this in a fraction of the time because there is no bias, no grudge, no egos. I really hope this is the beginning of the end.

 

[SPARTAKUS*]

I dont like the NHL's move on this one. To me it shows that theyre not looking to make a deal now, theyre looking to go to Impasse and replacement players no matter what at this point. Although, in some eyes that's been the goal all along.

And I suppose the NHLPA is looking to make a deal. Yeah right !!!

 

[djhn579]

I dont like the NHL's move on this one. To me it shows that theyre not looking to make a deal now, theyre looking to go to Impasse and replacement players no matter what at this point. Although, in some eyes that's been the goal all along.

I think it's quite the opposite. They want a deal, so they are using every means at their disposal to take away the unions leverage in negotiations and over the players. When the union has no leverage and no way to keep the players from revolting, they will have no choice but to make a deal.

And I don't think they need to declare impasse to use replacement players, though that will be for the courts to decide as well...

 

[Bruwinz37]

I think it speaks volumes that the NHLPA has to threaten agents in order to keep their membership in line. So if a guy wants to cross he cant use his agent because the agent wont want to cross the union? Anyone else see how back asswards this is?

I guess desperate times are calling for desperate measures.

 

[kolanos]

I dont like the NHL's move on this one. To me it shows that theyre not looking to make a deal now, theyre looking to go to Impasse and replacement players no matter what at this point. Although, in some eyes that's been the goal all along.

The NHL will have a season this year, NHLPA or no NHLPA -- that's essentially what the NHL is doing right now. The two offers they made a week and a half ago are the last ones they will make, short of a counter-offer from Goodenow. The NHL has a very good case, the NHLPA has not held up their side of the bargaining process and this complaint to the NRLB is a warning-shot that I hope Goodenow takes seriously (for a change).

 

[JohnnyB11]

we'll see - guys like you make me yack - when they start playing again - don't come

mr gib, do you really think the players position in this dispute is not adversely affected by the cancellation of the season?? Cancelling the season has got to make you think that, while you may not be willing to accept all aspects of the owners platform, the numbers must be poor enough in the owners eyes to warrant lost revenue for an entire season, doesn't it? And with the real risk of long term damage to the fan base caused by a lost season, how in the heck would owners decide to sweeten the pot??? Yes, some of the owners may not be all that swift, but they aren't THAT stupid.

Yack away if you like.... if you could see the dispute from an owner's perspective as well as you can from a player's perspective you probably wouldn't get all bent out of shape. Hockey fans inherently want to see the best players in action, but replacements would likely be accepted by the majority of fans due to the public perception around this issue. In the collective public's eye, neither side smells like roses but the player's are ending up stinking the most.

 

[kolanos]

mr gib, do you really think the players position in this dispute is not adversely affected by the cancellation of the season?? Cancelling the season has got to make you think that, while you may not be willing to accept all aspects of the owners platform, the numbers must be poor enough in the owners eyes to warrant lost revenue for an entire season, doesn't it? And with the real risk of long term damage to the fan base caused by a lost season, how in the heck would owners decide to sweeten the pot??? Yes, some of the owners may not be all that swift, but they aren't THAT stupid.

Great point that I think is lost on most of the pro-PA posters here. If after all of this, you still think the NHL has been making money hand-over-fist -- you're out of your (bleeping) mind.

 

[IdiotsPickedMyName*]

KABOOM this war just went nuclear.

I have a feeling we're going to see both sides file a ton of complaints in the next few weeks, know that the ice is broken.

Looks like this lockout is going to be settled in court

 

[Cropduster]

Looks like this lockout is going to be settled in court

good.

 

[IdiotsPickedMyName*]

good.

That depends on if you support the players or owners.

The courts have a record of finding against big business and in favor of unions,(in Canada anyway)

 

[Mat]

What's Goodenow's job again?

to get the best financial deal possible for the players
and by rejecting all the owners have thrown his way so far at least shows hes sitll trying to reach his goal

bettman on the other hand has failed at growing the game, keeping the product exciting, losing sponsors, and he lost an entire seasons worth of revenue
if i were an owner id have fired him 6 years ago