Newsday: Offer Almost Done

[Jaded-Fan]

The owner devotees outnumber the PA devotees on this board about 30 to 1, and they outnumber folks like me who are disgusted with both sides about 10 to 1. And almost all of the people who openly celebrated the cancellation of the season because they didn't want to see their side make any concessions are the owner devotees.

No, the reason almost all of the people who openly celebrated the cancellation of the season are Owner supporters is NOT because they didn't want to see their side make any concessions. I would not use the word celebrate either. The reason was that most Owners supporters do so not because they are wonderful guys, but because they were looking long term rather than short term. The owners positions dovetail with ours as long as they fight for a deal where the fear is lessened that your team will either not be able to compete and/or will lose key players in lopesided deals where salary is involved. We freely admit that bias and have no clue why we would have to apologize for having it. Conversely, PA supporters usually do so either because they support teams with huge payrolls and do not want to see that change, or because they are looking short term, are willing to get play on the ice no matter what the deal. Those are the vast majority, though some genuinely feel that the deal offered by the players was a fair one, misguided souls that they are.

The deal last offered by the players would not satisfy what the owners are looking for, nor would it satisfy what a fan of many many teams would want from a deal. Simple as that.

 

[Digger12]

No, the reason almost all of the people who openly celebrated the cancellation of the season are Owner supporters is NOT because they didn't want to see their side make any concessions. I would not use the word celebrate either. The reason was that most Owners supporters do so not because they are wonderful guys, but because they were looking long term rather than short term. The owners positions dovetail with ours as long as they fight for a deal where the fear is lessened that your team will either not be able to compete and/or will lose key players in lopesided deals where salary is involved. We freely admit that bias and have no clue why we would have to apologize for having it. Conversely, PA supporters usually do so either because they support teams with huge payrolls and do not want to see that change, or because they are looking short term, are willing to get play on the ice no matter what the deal. Those are the vast majority, though some genuinely feel that the deal offered by the players was a fair one, misguided souls that they are.

The deal last offered by the players would not satisfy what the owners are looking for, nor would it satisfy what a fan of many many teams would want from a deal. Simple as that.

I don't want my team to be lost, nor do I want any other fan's team to be lost due to a broken financial model.

IMO the NHL's plan for the future accomplishes that much more efficiently than what the players are offering. I don't have to like them, that's not really the point.

I will admit that I'm growing a festering dislike for the NHLPA leadership though, mainly because of the unprofessional way they've carried themselves throughout much of this. The NHLPA membership should be embarrassed with the latest public forays of Goodenow and Saskin.

 

[SENSible1*]

im working and travelling .. sorry you missed me.

dr

Just interested in the PA supporters spin on recent events and you are always a good read.

 

[Cully9]

I am in no way a booster of Bob Goodenow, but I don't see why he is to blame. He is simply in charge, but I highly doubt he is making the final decisions.

I'd suggest that people are quicker to point the finger at Goodenow (as opposed to Bettman, for example, who has the same job for the owners) because of the relative intellects of their constituents.

Bettman's bosses are billionaire CEOs who have been involved in the occasional business decision here and there. Goodenow is essentially the brains of an operation filled with guys who haven't finished high school, or at best, might have taken a few college courses. (For the sad state of NHLers intellectual capacities, check out Cory Cross' interview on the Fan 590...seems completely overwhelmed by the issues and does not have an original thought the entire time, and this is a guy who went to the University of Alberta)

Goodenow, for all of his failings, did graduate from Harvard and has a law degree, which makes him an intellectual Gretzky when compared to his "bosses", and they know it, so they will do whatever he tells them. The fact that he's been the one to oversee their outrageous salary growth only strengthens that position further. Up until the last few days, Bob Goodenow likely could have the NHL membership playing in evening gowns if he decided that would get them the most money.

A few months back, John Kruk wrote on ESPN.com about how the MLBPA conducted itself, and compared it to the NHLPA. Essentially, he said that players didn't tell the MLBPA what their strategy would be -- it was the other way around -- and we know how the NHLPA admires the MLBPA so much.

I think that's why, to some extent, people are more likely to pin this on Bob Goodenow.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

as a ps to what I said above, if the Owners do not include a meaningful salary floor that is within some kind of striking distance of a ceiling, $10 or $15 million perhaps, I will be against them in that. If the floor is too low, the tempatation for some owners to line pockets with any revenue sharing rather than field a team would be too great. Baseball is a great example of how a luxury tax fails, it is also a wonderful working experiment of owners pocketing revenue sharing money. I am not pro-owner, I am pro- what I believe is best for the game.

 

[SENSible1*]

I'd suggest that people are quicker to point the finger at Goodenow (as opposed to Bettman, for example, who has the same job for the owners) because of the relative intellects of their constituents.

Bettman's bosses are billionaire CEOs who have been involved in the occasional business decision here and there. Goodenow is essentially the brains of an operation filled with guys who haven't finished high school, or at best, might have taken a few college courses. (For the sad state of NHLers intellectual capacities, check out Cory Cross' interview on the Fan 590...seems completely overwhelmed by the issues and does not have an original thought the entire time, and this is a guy who went to the University of Alberta)

Goodenow, for all of his failings, did graduate from Harvard and has a law degree, which makes him an intellectual Gretzky when compared to his "bosses", and they know it, so they will do whatever he tells them. The fact that he's been the one to oversee their outrageous salary growth only strengthens that position further. Up until the last few days, Bob Goodenow likely could have the NHL membership playing in evening gowns if he decided that would get them the most money.

A few months back, John Kruk wrote on ESPN.com about how the MLBPA conducted itself, and compared it to the NHLPA. Essentially, he said that players didn't tell the MLBPA what their strategy would be -- it was the other way around -- and we know how the NHLPA admires the MLBPA so much.

I think that's why, to some extent, people are more likely to pin this on Bob Goodenow.

Good post, though I think the emphasis should be on the player's education, lack of business knowledge, follower mentality and not on their intellect.

I don't for one minute think that players possess any more or less intelligence than the general public simply because they were talented enough to make the NHL.

 

[Mess]

as a ps to what I said above, if the Owners do not include a meaningful salary floor that is within some kind of striking distance of a ceiling, $10 or $15 million perhaps, I will be against them in that. If the floor is too low, the tempatation for some owners to line pockets with any revenue sharing rather than field a team would be too great. Baseball is a great example of how a luxury tax fails, it is also a wonderful working experiment of owners pocketing revenue sharing money. I am not pro-owner, I am pro- what I believe is best for the game.

Right there you answered your own question as to why the NHLPA can't accept the NHL FINAL OFFER .. because it had no Salary Floor just a ceiling ... The NHLPA counter at 49 m Ceiling also had a 25 m floor..

If Bettman is true to his word, then this has been about Salary parity (within a small range) for all 30 teams .. Capping the Top is as important as Capping the Bottom IMO ..

The main one for the exact reason you gave Revenue sharing in principle should be for small market teams to build up payrolls with the help of their friends ..not pocket it as found money, while attemting to win the Crosby Sweepstakes instead of the Stanley Cup ..

 

[StickShift]

I have not been following this story closely, has it been debunked yet?

 

[Cully9]

Good post, though I think the emphasis should be on the player's education, lack of business knowledge, follower mentality and not on their intellect.

I don't for one minute think that players possess any more or less intelligence than the general public simply because they were talented enough to make the NHL.

Agreed. I didn't mean to characterize them as stupid because they are physically superior to the vast majority. However, there are times that I'd be curious to see a few IQ tests thrown their way, just for kicks.

You're right, though, the follower mentality is a big part of this too. The PA is composed of a group of guys who have always been told what to do -- even as grown men -- so following Bob's marching orders isn't all that different from following a coach's.

 

[futurcorerock]

I have not been following this story closely, has it been debunked yet?

Hardly, it's snowballed since Darren Pang said what he said on SportsCenter wednesday night. There are articles all over the place, and the ironic about-face of Mike Modano

 

[Mess]

Show of hands .. Who here believes Elvis is still alive ??

 

[Jaysfanatic*]

Show of hands .. Who here believes Elvis is still alive ??

You're seriously such an (expletive) right now.

and for the record.....Elvis ISN'T dead, he just went home.

 

[kenabnrmal]

Show of hands .. Who here believes Elvis is still alive ??

Show of hands...who here believes that all discussions and negotiations take place with TSN nearby, so they can promptly keep the fans at HF Boards up to date on ALL developments, and NOTHING happens behind the scenes. Oh, ohhhh...Messenger, is that your hand???

 

[ti-vite]

I'd suggest that people are quicker to point the finger at Goodenow (as opposed to Bettman, for example, who has the same job for the owners) because of the relative intellects of their constituents.

Bettman's bosses are billionaire CEOs who have been involved in the occasional business decision here and there. Goodenow is essentially the brains of an operation filled with guys who haven't finished high school, or at best, might have taken a few college courses. (For the sad state of NHLers intellectual capacities, check out Cory Cross' interview on the Fan 590...seems completely overwhelmed by the issues and does not have an original thought the entire time, and this is a guy who went to the University of Alberta)

Goodenow, for all of his failings, did graduate from Harvard and has a law degree, which makes him an intellectual Gretzky when compared to his "bosses", and they know it, so they will do whatever he tells them. The fact that he's been the one to oversee their outrageous salary growth only strengthens that position further. Up until the last few days, Bob Goodenow likely could have the NHL membership playing in evening gowns if he decided that would get them the most money.

A few months back, John Kruk wrote on ESPN.com about how the MLBPA conducted itself, and compared it to the NHLPA. Essentially, he said that players didn't tell the MLBPA what their strategy would be -- it was the other way around -- and we know how the NHLPA admires the MLBPA so much.

I think that's why, to some extent, people are more likely to pin this on Bob Goodenow.

B ut he does not seem very prepared for all this so I would say he is being 'out lawyered' by Bettman.

 

[Mess]

Show of hands...who here believes that all discussions and negotiations take place with TSN nearby, so they can promptly keep the fans at HF Boards up to date on ALL developments, and NOTHING happens behind the scenes. Oh, ohhhh...Messenger, is that your hand???

Nope I let my idol Elvis R.I.P.

and I will also my Hockey for this season ..

Time to heal ... Time to move on ...

Love the optimism .. can't believe the Denials to the facts at hand ..

 

[Jean Beliveau]

Nope I let my idol Elvis R.I.P.

and I will also my Hockey for this season ..

Time to heal ... Time to move on ...

Love the optimism .. can't believe the Denials to the facts at hand ..

The facts are that we will have a season starting 1st week of March 2005.

 

[Mess]

The facts are that we will have a season starting 1st week of March 2005.

I agree .. but it will be a Golf Season though ..

 

[Toonces]

and for the record.....Elvis ISN'T dead, he just went home.

Wow, so your saying I didn't imagine that the last time I was abducted?!?

Awesome

 

[futurcorerock]

Show of hands .. Who here believes Elvis is still alive ??

If you cant contribute, don't post.

you have 8,800 posts.. i can see why.

 

[nomorekids]

I agree .. but it will be a Golf Season though ..

please, place your love of hockey above the fright that accompanies the significance of the players caving to the leafs and their payroll.

optimism!