Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Winnipeg Jets - February 11

Three Stars at Winnipeg - February 11


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LeetchisGod

This is a bad hockey team.
May 21, 2009
19,586
11,184
Washington, DC
The negativity and self defeatism of this board is disgusting.

Yes the team hasn't played to their capabilities this season, yes there are some contracted players that should be moved on to clear cap space, but what exactly is stopping this team from getting hot at the right time?

'Member when the L.A Kings fired their coach mid season and won the cup the same year? Goldfish memories.
We have AV who singlehandily loses playoff series with his awful player management.
 
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Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
NHL.com player rankings for this season. Lets discount goalies because thats besides the discussion. And this isn't exact, its before this season and I don't even agree with the rankings, but its a neutral source, gives us a good idea of the whole. 6/10 of the top star skaters in the league were picked in the top 1.8% of the draft.



#NHLTopPlayers: Nos. 10-1
Terrible argument. Why does a team need to have one player in the top 10 of all skaters (It doesn't.)? 30% of your sample doesn't match what you're saying. (That superstars are only found in the top picks.)
 
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Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
I don't want to burn down a team with competitive components for an extra 5% shot at drafting a single guy that our franchise's success will hinge on.

I feel it's important to point out that it's also for the well scouted, near NHL ready prospects we can trade for along with a number of picks and a lot of cap space. Space we can use to replace some of what we lose while several young guys grow into some of the other openings.

If we can manage to trade for two or three great prospects that all become top 6/top 4 for us, in addition to Andersson, Chyt, and add all of them to a few other guys (including current Rangers like Buch, ADA, Hayes, JT, Vesey, Fast, Hank etc.) then I don't see this as a major issue to trade Nash, Grabs and McD or Zucc.

P.S. It's funny to me how I went from once thinking about adding guys like Dubs, Artie, Cally, Dawes to the team with Hank here. Then I thought about us adding guys like Christian Thomas, Werek-->Lindberg, McD, Sauer, Hagelin, Zucc, Cherepanov, Grachev, McI, Valentenko to the team. Through it all, with this new crop on the horizon, there's been Hank.
 
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Samuel Culper III

Mr. Woodhull...
Jan 15, 2007
13,144
1,099
Texas
This team is going to do just enough to stay stuck in the “dreaded middle” again.

Just enough to be outside the top picks in the draft. Not enough to be even close to a serious contender.

Last year Philadelphia was lucky enough to go from drafting 13th to #2 overall due to the lottery. We need that kind of luck. We will be anywhere from 8-12 in our own merits, IMO. The 8th spot Stars drafted 3rd. 13th Flyers drafted 2nd. We need a repeat of last year’s lottery luck.
 
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will1066

Fonz Drury
Oct 12, 2008
43,139
58,714
It's funny how our defense is looking better these last couple games even though they are without McDonagh.
Nice management job, AV.

I seriously don't think we need McD anymore. He can still skate, but he doesn't headman pass particularly well anymore save the occasional home run pass. I like the guy, but I don't have any emotional attachment to him. His whole captaincy has been vanilla and corn flakes. I see guys who make the super-quick reads and super-quick outs out of danger and out of harm's way as the future.
 
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DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
22,382
19,978
PA from SI
I still can't see them not selling the UFA's off, and if some team really offers a boatload for McDonagh he will get moved. If the team really doesn't want to give McDonagh a long-term deal, get as much value as you can for him even if it hurts this season. Let the young guys play and let the chips fall where they may. Same for Zucc.
 

mike14

Rampage Sherpa
Jun 22, 2006
17,664
10,611
Melbourne
This team is going to do just enough to stay stuck in the “dreaded middle” again.

Just enough to be outside the top picks in the draft. Not enough to be even close to a serious contender.

I don't know about this. Assuming they do look to sell off the UFAs at a minimum for young prospects/picks, the post TDL team is going to struggle to win games, especially as 15 of the 19 games post TDL are against teams either in the playoffs or fighting for a spot/seeding.

As of today we'd be picking 10th. EDM, ARI, VAN, BUF, OTT and MON we were likely never going to fall below. You can probably now add FLA to that list, so at worst (best) we'd finish around 7th. DET, like us will be up and down, but EDM and CHI certainly aren't going to be sellers and will be looking to win games.

So it's likely we remain around 10th, maybe falling to about 8th which is only 2 spots off probably the most likely outcome. I'd be happy with picking 6-8th (plus with whatever we get for UFAs), anything else is just hoping the balls far in our favour
 
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East Coast Bias

Registered User
Feb 28, 2014
8,362
6,422
NYC
I assume they considered the “what if we go on a win streak before the deadline” scenario before they issued that statement and did the media rounds on a rebuild.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
23,101
New York
The argument that 'it's what successful teams have done' doesn't resonate with me.

Is St. Louis not considered competitive because Tarasenko was a 16th overall pick? Boston has no chance this year because they have Pastrnak and Bergeron in their top 6? Los Angeles' two cups don't count because Kopitar wasn't even picked in the top 10?

We literally just drafted a guy at 21st overall who is putting up numbers just shy of Pasta, while being a little younger. In a draft where Liljgren slipped to the Leafs at 16 or wherever they were.

I'm fine with losing games and getting a higher pick, but I'm not going to burn down the house in the hopes of finding treasure under it.

Tarasenko is a very good player, is he elite? So far, they haven't done that well in the playoffs with him as their best forward, so there's a good argument that he's not. Boston is the one outlier example to the three dynasties of the last 10 years. There will always be outliers, I'd rather us try to be part of the higher percentage group. Just because the Kings were able to acquire important pieces in other ways doesn't mean they weren't a team that picked 3 times in the top 5, including picking Drew Doughty who was one of the best defensive prospects in the last 30 years. I think you often need a combination of top 5 picks, and good acquisitions in other ways, whether its picks later in the 1st round, good drafting after the first round, trades, UDFA's, UFA's, etc.

I think you are putting up a pretty weak argument. If you look at the last 10 Stanley Cups, 8 of them have been won by 3 teams, the other two are this generation's outlier team in how they acquired talent, the Bruins and last generation's outlier team in how they acquired talent, the Wings. The three dynasties all picked in the top 5 at least 3 times in building up their teams. Probably more than anything what the data shows is that one pick won't be enough, we might need multiple top 5 picks, and it might take years to build up a dynasty. I think the stats show that if we don't pick in the top 5 this year, we are off track of where we need to be to properly rebuild the team.
 
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will1066

Fonz Drury
Oct 12, 2008
43,139
58,714
Tarasenko is a very good player, is he elite? So far, they haven't done that well in the playoffs with him as their best forward, so there's a good argument that he's not. Boston is the one outlier example to the three dynasties of the last 10 years. There will always be outliers, I'd rather us try to be part of the higher percentage group. Just because the Kings were able to acquire important pieces in other ways doesn't mean they weren't a team that picked 3 times in the top 5, including picking Drew Doughty who was one of the best defensive prospects in the last 30 years. I think you often need a combination of top 5 picks, and good acquisitions in other ways, whether its picks later in the 1st round, good drafting after the first round, trades, UDFA's, UFA's, etc.

I think you are putting up a pretty weak argument. If you look at the last 10 Stanley Cups, 8 of them have been won by 3 teams, the other two are this generation's outlier team in how they acquired talent, the Bruins and last generation's outlier team in how they acquired talent, the Wings. The three dynasties all picked in the top 5 at least 3 times in building up their teams. Probably more than anything what the data shows is that one pick won't be enough, we might need multiple top 5 picks, and it might take years to build up a dynasty. I think the stats show that if we don't pick in the top 5 this year, we are off track of where we need to be to properly rebuild the team.

You make a strong point here that I was going to chime, in that we're going to have to tank a few times, not just this year.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich

Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Dec 8, 2013
57,228
23,101
New York
Terrible argument. Why does a team need to have one player in the top 10 of all skaters (It doesn't.)? 30% of your sample doesn't match what you're saying. (That superstars are only found in the top picks.)

Not really. Statistics show the teams that the Stanley Cup winners in today's NHL have elite skaters, 8 out of the last 10 came from 3 dynasties who spent 3 or more years picking in the top 5.

And I never said that every star in the NHL will win Stanley Cups or having them will guarantee a team Stanley Cups. Maybe there's actually something to the stars who go in the top 5, players like Crosby, Malkin, Kane winning Stanley Cups and the "stars" who've emerged later in the draft, Kucherov, Karlson not having any Cups yet.
 

Ori

#Connor Bedard 2023 1st, Chicago Blackhawks
Nov 7, 2014
11,578
2,173
Norway
I watched Jets post game with their coach, and they had one of their best home records so far this season - so it was a huge win. We`ve been a playoffs team for quite a while now with a similar core, and we have a great chance when we get our injured players back for sure. The small % chance to win that lottery is not worth one season of Henrik or anyone else on the current Ranges team if we fail to reach playoffs, because a winning culture is important.

If we went full tank after Christmas and after Gorton interview - it just give bad signals for those new prospects who are going to have a career here like Chytil, Lias, Pionk and others. It make absolutely 0 sense to give up now so close in the playoffs race.
 

GoAwayPanarin

HFBoards Sponsor
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May 27, 2008
41,062
50,565
In High Altitoad
I watched Jets post game with their coach, and they had one of their best home records so far this season - so it was a huge win. We`ve been a playoffs team for quite a while now with a similar core, and we have a great chance when we get our injured players back for sure. The small % chance to win that lottery is not worth one season of Henrik or anyone else on the current Ranges team if we fail to reach playoffs, because a winning culture is important.

If we went full tank after Christmas and after Gorton interview - it just give bad signals for those new prospects who are going to have a career here like Chytil, Lias, Pionk and others. It make absolutely 0 sense to give up now so close in the playoffs race.

We've basically been a meh team the last 2 years and not for nothing, but this team wasn't exactly playing well when everyone was healthy.

Winning games doesn't always mean that you're playing well. Forget the draft lottery, there is a huge difference between picking 8th and 16th.

JG already said that he won't be making moves to save the season, which means that they won't be adding. They're going to lose a pretty big chunk of scoring once Grabner and Nash are moved which should manifest itself into more losses but I'm a bit uneasy that staying close to the pack will keep JG from pulling the trigger on trades for Zucc, McD and others even if the offers are up to par.
 

egelband

Registered User
Sep 6, 2008
15,852
14,386
I watched Jets post game with their coach, and they had one of their best home records so far this season - so it was a huge win. We`ve been a playoffs team for quite a while now with a similar core, and we have a great chance when we get our injured players back for sure. The small % chance to win that lottery is not worth one season of Henrik or anyone else on the current Ranges team if we fail to reach playoffs, because a winning culture is important.

If we went full tank after Christmas and after Gorton interview - it just give bad signals for those new prospects who are going to have a career here like Chytil, Lias, Pionk and others. It make absolutely 0 sense to give up now so close in the playoffs race.
I do agree that anything can happen in the playoffs. But I also think it’s wise to trim the payroll. Restock the cupboard. And still hope for wins/playoffs. But not sweat it too much if they fall short of that last bit.
 
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Ori

#Connor Bedard 2023 1st, Chicago Blackhawks
Nov 7, 2014
11,578
2,173
Norway
I think you`re upset buddy since we did not win the cup in 2014, and the meh team still qualified for playoffs in one of the most difficult division in NHL, @Go Away Staal . And M. Staal will probably be bought out - so you can probably change your avatar end of this season. :)
Why should it be any difference with our younger core in Miller & Kreider, Buch, they have not showed us anything so far that we are closer to that cup if we moved all our guys above 28 + including Grabner.
 
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