Negativity Thread

[occy30]

Been a fan going on 26 years now and I've seen some good Blues teams in the past that still found ways to not get beyond the 2nd round. During the regular season you are not going to see any team play with the same intensity as they would when their playoff lives are on the line. So in essence you are not seeing real match ups until we get to the big dance.

The regular season's objective is to get to the playoffs. The journey during this time is full of up's and down's (lots of down's lately). The only real thing you can get from the regular season is an idea on strengths and weaknesses. Teams try to trade to upgrade the bad spots before the deadline and that is about it.

In the cap era we are in there just isn't going to be a team that tears it up during the regular season and just destroys opponents in the playoffs. There is just too much parity for that (and that is intentional).

All I can tell from the regular season so far is that it's very likely we will make the playoffs and that is a good thing. Some teams are already packing it up as they know they will not make it. We are fortunate in that we have a good regular season team to get us the chance at the cup.

The unfortunate thing is we have to wait and see how the playoffs go. That is when you see players give 110% and play to win every game. That is really the only way you can judge this current team is by how they do in the playoffs when both sides are giving it their all. And you have to wait to do that. Saying they have no chance because it seems like were playing horribly now is just playing armchair GM before we even see what this team is really capable of.

I've been here too long to jump ship at shaky play all season. We have some great talent and we just need to find a way to get them to fire on all cylinders when the playoffs get here (and to make sure they are healthy at the right time). We have a more-than capable team to get us to the cup and hopefully they come together and make it happen. Only time will tell if we are up for the challenge.

LGB

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I know a lot of Blues fans, and I've been one myself for quite sometime. Never, in the entirety of my life, have I heard more people complaining, and going to great lengths to bend facts or just blatantly making stuff up to try to prove that they have a leg to stand on. Even in the 80s and 90s, when we went fourteen years without getting past the second round, people didn't complain this much. There were several years of reloading, taking a step back and then trying again, and people were generally accepting and realistic about that. But now all of a sudden it's unacceptable for some reason. I don't see where people are getting their sense of entitlement, I guess. Seems to me like a case of bad expectations.

I expect this team to do well, and I want this team to win it all more than I want most things. But I can be patient. I enjoy the games because they're my team. And of course, there are things that I don't love about this team, but there are plenty of reasons to be happy and to be excited about this team's future. But to expect that every year we ought to be in the Cup finals is ridiculous. Hell, LA didn't even make the playoffs last year. To me, it's enough that we are a competitive team night in and night out, and that when I turn on the TV there's a pretty good chance that we're going to win that game. When the playoffs come around, we stand as good of a chance as anybody of breaking through. It's not a foregone conclusion that this team won't do well in the playoffs this year. You can pontificate all you want, but there's nothing tying regular season success to post-season production, there just isn't. Again, look at the Kings and Blackhawks who just squeak into the playoffs every year and then go on a run and get it done. I have faith that this team can do that, because they show me that they know how to win games, even when it isn't pretty. I refuse to hang onto past failures, because there's too many of them. And they don't bear on this season's results anyways. This is not the same team as last year, and yet some folks insist that we can't possibly do well. You can sit around and say "well you know our GA/GF isn't as good this year" all day, but the fact of the matter is that we're still doing better than 26 other teams. Seasonal results are relative. We are a top 5 team right now, and thems the facts.

I don't care that people want to criticize this team. This is the place for that discussion to happen. What bothers me is the bile that comes along with it, and the lengths that some people go to to drag players and coaches' names through the mud. It's totally uncalled for, and it's downright unsportsmanlike at times. When you can only look at this team by seething at it, of course you're going to be unhappy! So why should anybody trust your judgement? There's no reason for me or anybody else to accept arguments made by people who only want blood and vengeance out of this team. People aren't mad that this team isn't performing well this year (because we are performing well this year), people are mad because nobody hung for the Minnesota loss last year. It's shameful. And it makes people create this impossibly high standard for the team where any loss is taken as a sign of the end times. Great teams lose. Great teams make mistakes. Great teams find ways to win a majority of the time anyways, and we do that. But to hold a team that is currently over .500 to the grinder in the same way that I'd expect a team like the Leafs or Blue Jackets to treat their team is insulting to the integrity of this team.

I look at it from the point of view of justice. This team is successful until they prove to me that they aren't (i.e. innocent until proven guilty). They have my faith because I love this team. That doesn't mean I can't or won't criticize them, or offer my opinion on how they might be better, but I refuse to act like they owe me anything or that they are failures from the start. I know they'll probably let me down again, but hey that's part of being a Blues fan. They can have my faith anyways, and I wouldn't give it to anybody else if they paid me a million dollars for it. I just wish other people could enjoy it in that way too. So I do get defensive about this team, but I find it hard to sit around and let other people get the facts wrong, either intentionally or because they didn't even bother to check, in order to disparage the team that I love.

That's all I've got to say about that.

This team has failed four consecutive years under Hitchcock, most recently in embarrassing fashion against a clearly inferior team. What else has to happen to prove they aren't successful?

 

[KirkOut]

I know a lot of Blues fans, and I've been one myself for quite sometime. Never, in the entirety of my life, have I heard more people complaining, and going to great lengths to bend facts or just blatantly making stuff up to try to prove that they have a leg to stand on. Even in the 80s and 90s, when we went fourteen years without getting past the second round, people didn't complain this much. There were several years of reloading, taking a step back and then trying again, and people were generally accepting and realistic about that. But now all of a sudden it's unacceptable for some reason. I don't see where people are getting their sense of entitlement, I guess. Seems to me like a case of bad expectations.

You think maybe it has more to do with the internet being a thing right now compared to the 80s? And by the way, nothing about Blues fans' frustration is "all of the sudden"

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I have no idea what the point of the OP is. Are you just shouting off the top of a mountain? We already went through the optimism/pessimism dichotomy threads. Can't we leave it at that and leave room on this board for all of us to express whatever we like?

 

[Dbrownss]

This team has failed four consecutive years under Hitchcock, most recently in embarrassing fashion against a clearly inferior team. What else has to happen to prove they aren't successful?

I've been thinking...why are the wild inferior? We haven't actually won a game handily against them since the beginning of last year iirc....

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

This team has failed four consecutive years under Hitchcock, most recently in embarrassing fashion against a clearly inferior team. What else has to happen to prove they aren't successful?

For it to happen again this year. That's why we play the games.

You think maybe it has more to do with the internet being a thing right now compared to the 80s? And by the way, nothing about Blues fans' frustration is "all of the sudden"

Definitely has a lot to do with it. But it's not like I never talked to a variety of Blues fans back then. People were disappointed, sure, but not livid and bloodthirsty. That's the difference. I talk to people at games and they're just all out of sorts. One guy told me we should waive Backes and call up Barbashev because he's a "stud." People are just so besides themselves that they can't think clearly.

No, you're right. The frustration isn't "all of a sudden." It's the ultimatum attitude that seems new. Either we fire Hitch, or we necessarily, as a rule, cannot succeed. Either we fire Hitch, or I can't root for this team. It was only a week or so ago that somebody posted that they wished we would stop winning so many games so we could finally get Hitch out of here. That's just absurd.

I get that sports fans are passionate, but this is something entirely different. There's a line between being passionate and being hysterical, and unfortunately it seems that a lot of folks have set up camp firmly on the other side of that line.

 

[BlueDream]

I get that sports fans are passionate, but this is something entirely different. There's a line between being passionate and being hysterical, and unfortunately it seems that a lot of folks have set up camp firmly on the other side of that line.

How is it different? It's not. You act like the fanbase is filled with nothing but crazy people just because they don't share your same views or something. You talk about how someone wanted to put Backes on waivers, well that's one person. And that's just because there will always be people with radical ideas out there, it doesn't make them the majority. This goes for ANY subject matter too - sports, politics, it's just the way things are. You cannot let some guy at a freakin sporting event that wants to waive Backes and call up Barbashev change your perception of the fanbase and make you go on a rant on a forum about it. That just makes no sense. There's 7 billion people on the planet, a lot of them will say outlandish things. With how bad the Habs are struggling, how much do you want to bet there's fans walking around somewhere in Montreal that think it's a good idea to trade Pacioretty or Subban? I'll bet you they exist, especially in a passionate market like that.

I always try to remind people when they think people are losing our minds here. Go read stuff coming out of Toronto or something if you really want to see what craziness looks like. This is nothing.

Side note: I am willing bet absolutely anything that Hitchcock does not win another Stanley Cup as a coach in the NHL.

Came here to post this too. Absolutely agree.

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

How is it different? It's not. You act like the fanbase is filled with nothing but crazy people just because they don't share your same views or something. You talk about how someone wanted to put Backes on waivers, well that's one person. And that's just because there will always be people with radical ideas out there, it doesn't make them the majority. This goes for ANY subject matter too - sports, politics, it's just the way things are. You cannot let some guy at a freakin sporting event that wants to waive Backes and call up Barbashev change your perception of the fanbase and make you go on a rant on a forum about it. That just makes no sense. There's 7 billion people on the planet, a lot of them will say outlandish things. With how bad the Habs are struggling, how much do you want to bet there's fans walking around somewhere in Montreal that think it's a good idea to trade Pacioretty or Subban? I'll bet you they exist, especially in a passionate market like that.

I always try to remind people when they think people are losing our minds here. Go read stuff coming out of Toronto or something if you really want to see what craziness looks like. This is nothing.

No I don't think everybody here is crazy. I hope that I've established on here that I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and I've done so when it's necessary to. There's a lot of people here who don't think the way I do but have valid points about their perceptions as well. Those are generally the people that aren't hysterical though.

And if your best counter-argument is "hey everybody else is doing it," I don't find that very convincing. It's no small coincidence that the best analytics people in hockey are also in the Canadian markets. Those people spend a lot, if not all of their time trying to talk people down off the edge, or trying to combat some "given" idea that people have erroneously arrived at. It's not necessary to be unreasonable or hysterical to be a sports fan. In fact it's more rewarding if you aren't.

Hysterical Blues fans have always existed. I remember when I was a kid and I stumbled into the stltoday forums. Back then, there were enough people to shout over the nonsense, but today it seems like the balance has tilted in the other direction. So it's not that I'm cherry picking my examples, I think it's pretty obvious that most people in this forum do not hold Hitchcock or the current iteration of this team in the highest regards. People that deluded tend to reach some pretty crazy conclusions, that's the point the example was meant to establish. But I don't think that individual was unique.

The thing that gets my goat is that (a) the stats don't support that judgement, and (b) neither the experts nor other fan bases buy it either. Hasn't anybody noticed that? You go over into the main forums and complain about Hitch and most people have no idea what you're talking about. Here's an article by Bleacher Report about NHL coaches in the hot seat. Guess who isn't on it. Here's an episode of the PDOcast where Dimitri Filipovic and Craig Custance talk about the Blues. Guess whose name doesn't come up. People that analyze hockey for a living (not to mention Jeremy Rutherford or Lou Korac or any of the other beat guys) don't seem to think that Hitch is much of a problem. People over at the trade boards are constantly convinced that we ought to be gearing up for a cup run. These are pretty important context clues from outside of the hive mind, and they're not the only evidence that counts but it's worth considering that people outside the fan base don't see our team the same way a majority of people here do. It's important to consider that.

 

[bleedblue1223]

People, this board has a high level of sarcasm, and this thread was originally paired with a positivity thread. Context is a great thing...

Fans should be critical and challenge management, that's the point. Otherwise, you are left with a lameduck organization that only exists to collect money. Fans can express their emotions however they choose. They elitist attitude that you have to blindly follow and agree with your team is growing old.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

It always amazes me when I read the posts here how everyone completely freaks out about this team. Everyone wants to see Hitch and Army chased out of town with pitchforks! I think this entire board would completely implode if we were ranked in the bottom 5 of the league instead of the top 5!

Yes I understand that it sucks that we have flamed out in the playoffs in recent years. The fact that 5 out of the last six winners have been out of the west, and 3 of those from our own conference (Blackhawks), makes matters pretty tough. I'm not saying that meritocracy is ok, but the Blackhawks went through a 40 year drought before going on their run here in the last few years. There were some very lean years for them in this period.

The solution to win is not always to blow up the system every time you don't win the Cup. Is it a coincidence that at least 3 former Blues coaches have gone on to win multiple Cups (Arbour, Bowman, Quenneville)? Are we going to add Hitch to that group?

Just putting it out there...let the flames begin!!!

I don't understand how being upset about the team makes someone a "bad fan," or how being blindly optimistic makes someone a "better fan." I think one of the parts of being a "fanatic" is that you get emotionally charged at times. If you watch them play, it's clear there are major issues with the roster and with the overall game plan. Even the brightest and most knowledgable posters point this out.



We're Blues fans, we have more than enough reason to be upset with the way things are going right now.

 

[Ranksu]

Cherish time what we have

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Tarasenko is going into "power saving mode"

 

[BlueDream]

He's looked like garbage for almost 3 weeks now. If he's injured they need to rest him, because if this is the guy we're going to see in the playoffs then the team should just forfeit the first round.

This is seriously awful, and it's disappointing. If he keeps this up he'll fall below a 70-point pace here soon. I thought he was way too good to do that.

 

[Meatball]

I'm giving Tarasenko a break. Playing under Hitchcock is like an automatic -10 points off of your point total by default.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

He's looked like garbage for almost 3 weeks now. If he's injured they need to rest him, because if this is the guy we're going to see in the playoffs then the team should just forfeit the first round.

This is seriously awful, and it's disappointing. If he keeps this up he'll fall below a 70-point pace here soon. I thought he was way too good to do that.

Remember Bouwmeester's "nagging injury" last year?

 

[zachws6]

Tarasenko is going into "power saving mode"

Is it considered a "mode" if it lasts for 41 games?

He is paid too much to be this bad.

Our team is too terrible for him to slump.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I'm giving Tarasenko a break. Playing under Hitchcock is like an automatic -10 points off of your point total by default.

His production drop shouldn't be attributed to him playing under Hitch. He's been cheating in the defensive zone all year long and it's bothered the hell out of me. He was putting up points so I was willing to give him a pass but now it's gotten out of hand. Too many times have I seen Tarasenko given a chance to break up a pass heading along the side of the boards back to the point and he just glides and let's it go. He has made some good defensive plays here and there by his backchecking, but once he's in the defensive zone, he's just coasting waiting for the other four guys to get it out of the zone. How many times have we seen in the past Tarasenko make a good defensive play that turned into a goal, why stop?

And what is with this slow transition crap? I don't get why we spend so much time, especially on the PP, in our own zone trying to set up a really awful breakout. And why aren't we forcing the puck up the middle of the ice when we are breaking out? Why are we constantly sending it along the boards to a guy who is sitting at the blueline already covered by a man or trying to dump and chase? We spend so much time getting set up we never catch out opponents off guard. We always give them enough time to break up our play at the blueline, make us go offsides, or easily retrieve our puck that we dumped and start their own breakout.

STOP TAKING PENALTIES. They mentioned the Jets were the most penalized team in the league but it's not like we are any better. We've gotten some BS calls here and there but for the most part we are just a very undisciplined team. Guys like Edmundson and Bortuzzo need to start being more careful with their whole tough guy act, it ends up biting us in the ass more than it helps us.

Why is Pajaarvi even in the NHL? Go back to Europe already.

We really need a new coach. I really do think Hitch is trying but he just can't adjust to a different type of game. I think he's too deep into trying to prove his new plan for this year is going to work and he won't be fired and it's too far along in the season to drop the system. I know we will end up making the playoffs and there will be times where I'll feel hope but this team isn't doing anything this year. This whole year is a waste to so many things which makes it very depressing. Backes will either walk or be vastly overpaid when he should have been traded after the Minnesota loss for a future's package. We should have also just let Hitch walk and sign someone to a one year deal until we found a more permanent solution. We could have started this season knowing we were in a retool having just traded Oshie and Backes away and tried to be a bubble team. It would have been a lot better than upper management making only one change in the off-season and that change only made us a worse team. Very disheartening.

 

[Chippewa]

Other people have said it, but I'll repeat it; get a new coaching staff in here, almost any new coaching staff at this point, and watch the team explode (in a good way ).

I know how wearing it is to watch this team under Hitchcock's offensive schizophrenia, I can only imagine what it's like to deal with as a player, especially a skilled one.

Andy Mac said it best about the Hitch, Payne, and Murray. "Different people, same coach".

 

[Ranksu]

Lindbohm is never going to be comfortable at the NHL level since he keeps getting yo-yo'd between the Blues and the Wolves.

Fixed and hurts.

Berglund is worthless and always will be, the Blues should trade him for Crosby.

I'll take it.

Schwartz is tiny and going to spend his entire career hurt.

You made Flux capacitor?

Lehtera is going to get worn down and by the playoffs will be completely unable to accomplish anything. On a positive note that means he'll fit right in with the rest of the team.

Okey, this become spooky..

Jaskin will forever be unable to beat a snail on salt lick in a race

Allen is horrendously overrated and always chokes at crunch time.

 

[PiggySmalls]

This team has taken such a nasty dive into mediocrity. I don’t care if it is Yeo, the players, or both. Something has got to f***ing change.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I miss @Multimoodia

 

[Bluesguru]

If DA doesn't do something by the deadline, I would be shocked. He just can't let this team disintegrate. I don't care if its a big deal or a small subtle deal, the guy has to do something.

 

[hullderko]

2 years later, same ole Blues.

His production drop shouldn't be attributed to him playing under Hitch. He's been cheating in the defensive zone all year long and it's bothered the hell out of me. He was putting up points so I was willing to give him a pass but now it's gotten out of hand. Too many times have I seen Tarasenko given a chance to break up a pass heading along the side of the boards back to the point and he just glides and let's it go. He has made some good defensive plays here and there by his backchecking, but once he's in the defensive zone, he's just coasting waiting for the other four guys to get it out of the zone. How many times have we seen in the past Tarasenko make a good defensive play that turned into a goal, why stop?

And what is with this slow transition crap? I don't get why we spend so much time, especially on the PP, in our own zone trying to set up a really awful breakout. And why aren't we forcing the puck up the middle of the ice when we are breaking out? Why are we constantly sending it along the boards to a guy who is sitting at the blueline already covered by a man or trying to dump and chase? We spend so much time getting set up we never catch out opponents off guard. We always give them enough time to break up our play at the blueline, make us go offsides, or easily retrieve our puck that we dumped and start their own breakout.

STOP TAKING PENALTIES. They mentioned the Jets were the most penalized team in the league but it's not like we are any better. We've gotten some BS calls here and there but for the most part we are just a very undisciplined team. Guys like Edmundson and Bortuzzo need to start being more careful with their whole tough guy act, it ends up biting us in the ass more than it helps us.

Why is Pajaarvi even in the NHL? Go back to Europe already.

We really need a new coach. I really do think Hitch is trying but he just can't adjust to a different type of game. I think he's too deep into trying to prove his new plan for this year is going to work and he won't be fired and it's too far along in the season to drop the system. I know we will end up making the playoffs and there will be times where I'll feel hope but this team isn't doing anything this year. This whole year is a waste to so many things which makes it very depressing. Backes will either walk or be vastly overpaid when he should have been traded after the Minnesota loss for a future's package. We should have also just let Hitch walk and sign someone to a one year deal until we found a more permanent solution. We could have started this season knowing we were in a retool having just traded Oshie and Backes away and tried to be a bubble team. It would have been a lot better than upper management making only one change in the off-season and that change only made us a worse team. Very disheartening.

 

[Ranksu]

I've bad feeling we haven't seen the worst yet..

 

[mw2noobbuster]

I want to be optimistic for this team. But it seems whenever there's a beam of light poking through the cracks, it's gone right when you start gaining hope and now you find yourself disappointed all over again. It's just so frustrating and disheartening.