NCAA and CHL

[inferno98]

Do you think the two leagues have a big impact on where a player is drafted and also the Development of a player. NTDP and USA Junior Leagues tend to go to NCAA so that can be included as part of the NCAA

I know most kids get drafted out of Juniors before attending NCAA Schools but I am just wondering.

A guy like jonathan towes? Do you think he could have been 1 or 2 playing the CHL or do you think he could of dropped lower then 3 playing in the CHL.

A guy like Bob Sanguinetti? Did it help him getting picked in the first round going to the CHL rather then going to the NTDP then college.

Or Kyle Okposo who played in the USHL before Minnesota. If instead of playing in the USHL he went to the CHL could that have been better devlopment for him before the draft?

I was just wondering how the development of each league helps or hurts these kinds of players.

This is not a NCAA vs. CHL thread. Strictly how each league benefits or hurts a players stock in the draft

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[Transported Upstater]

Only recently did it become commonplace for NCAA-eligible players to start going high in the draft, except for the truly exceptional US high-schoolers. In the past, a North American kid who wasn't in the CHL or NCAA at the time of his draft had a VERY hard time getting noticed.

Guys with one NCAA season or more under their belt at the time of their draft have always been noticed come draft time (although I believe the NCAA's draft eligibility rules for its players used to be different), but guys from the BCHL, USHL and USNTDP have started to make much more of an impact in the draft's first and second rounds, which is good because those are all extremely high-quality leagues/programs.

An interesting trend in USA hockey is the trend towards drafting the USHL/NTDP/NAHL kids and the shift away from the USHSE/USHSW, which in my opinion has come about from the really good kids being encouraged to try their hand at Junior hockey before entering the NCAA.

 

[Oilers Chick]

An interesting trend in USA hockey is the trend towards drafting the USHL/NTDP/NAHL kids and the shift away from the USHSE/USHSW, which in my opinion has come about from the really good kids being encouraged to try their hand at Junior hockey before entering the NCAA.

Actually you're partly correct. The kids out of the HS/Prep leagues, at least from the collegiate standpoint, are being encouraged to play a year or two of junior hockey to better prepare for them for what lies ahead the next level, in this case the NCAA. However, that's not always the case. Take Matt Niskanen for example. He went straight to the NCAA from HS, where he played at Virginia-Iron Mountain, though he has played with the US National team in international competition. The top-flight Minnesota HS kids in particular are making the jump to the NCAA right out of HS in growing numbers, albeit slowly. So far in my personal observations their immediate impacts (or lack thereof) have been mixed. I've seen some kids make the adjustment rather quickly and easily while others struggle to adapt. This isn't unique to just rookies fresh out of HS mind you, I've seen kids struggle to adjust coming of the NTDP and the USHL as well. It just depends on the individual and what kind of situation he is coming into.

Having said all that, I do agree that the drafting has shifted more towards the NTDP and USHL and to a lesser extent on the NAHL but IMO I think that has more to do with how the draft, free agency, etc. is now working in the NHL.

 

[inferno98]

Thanks for all the insight, but my question hasnt really been answerd.
I might not have been clear on my question.

Like Towes would his draft stock have been the same had he played in the CHL rather then NCAA?

Would Sanguinetti draft stock have been the same if he went to the NTDP then college?

Would Okposo draft stock been the same had he played in the CHL?

Im sorry if I was not real clear, but thanks for the better understanding on the NCAA part of it

 

[Transported Upstater]

Thanks for all the insight, but my question hasnt really been answerd.
I might not have been clear on my question.

Like Towes would his draft stock have been the same had he played in the CHL rather then NCAA?

Would Sanguinetti draft stock have been the same if he went to the NTDP then college?

Would Okposo draft stock been the same had he played in the CHL?

Im sorry if I was not real clear, but thanks for the better understanding on the NCAA part of it

With all due respect, how the hell can we answer that question definitively?

There are too many variables, and we could only speculate.

One example of a speculation would be for Kris Chucko, the Flames prospect. I believe he would have been better off playing in the WHL, as his game just didn't really seem suited for NCAA hockey.

 

[bigd]

Thanks for all the insight, but my question hasnt really been answerd.
I might not have been clear on my question.

Like Towes would his draft stock have been the same had he played in the CHL rather then NCAA?

Would Sanguinetti draft stock have been the same if he went to the NTDP then college?

Would Okposo draft stock been the same had he played in the CHL?

Im sorry if I was not real clear, but thanks for the better understanding on the NCAA part of it

In Towes I don`t think it would have effected his draft much because he entered College a year early and had a great freshman season.
I think in Sanguinettis case he would have gone higher had he gone to the NDTP and had two great seasons.
I think Okposo was the steel of the draft and I think he would have went higher in the draft if he had gone to the CHL.
That being said, it really will not make much of a difference in their hockey careers as they still have a lot of work to do to get to the NHL.
I do think Okposo and Towes with be there ahead of Sanguinetti!

 

[5mn Major]

Thanks for all the insight, but my question hasnt really been answerd.
I might not have been clear on my question.

Im sorry if I was not real clear, but thanks for the better understanding on the NCAA part of it

IMO the NCAA is a little higher risk for draft position for marginal players, players who don't have the heart to overcome hurdles or young players. We've seen a handful of recent examples of players that have entered the college ranks only to realize that they're totally unprepared for that level of play. Aufrey, Williams, and Swystun to name just a few. Jim OBrien entered the WCHA after being one of the top scorers on the NTDP U18 team...while skating as a 16 yo. Although on the 3rd or 4th line, he has zero points in 10 games with Minnesota. In the WCHA, He's a 17 yo playing game in and game out with/against many drafted 20+ year olds. It may hurt his stock if scouts focus strictly on his scoring. But as the level of play is extremely high, the team that drafts him has a great chance to get a steal as he's getting some amazing development for a kid his age.

 

[nags]

IMO the NCAA is a little higher risk for draft position for marginal players, players who don't have the heart to overcome hurdles or young players. We've seen a handful of recent examples of players that have entered the college ranks only to realize that they're totally unprepared for that level of play. Aufrey, Williams, and Swystun to name just a few. Jim OBrien entered the WCHA after being one of the top scorers on the NTDP U18 team...while skating as a 16 yo. Although on the 3rd or 4th line, he has zero points in 10 games with Minnesota. In the WCHA, He's a 17 yo playing game in and game out with/against many drafted 20+ year olds. It may hurt his stock if scouts focus strictly on his scoring. But as the level of play is extremely high, the team that drafts him has a great chance to get a steal as he's getting some amazing development for a kid his age.

Honestly, I don't know why he is rated as high as he is (Top 30) based on his current play even as a 17 year old. Toews was 3 months younger than O'Brien at the same time last year and he had a much bigger impact. Has O'Brien scored a point yet?

 

[Oilers Chick]

Honestly, I don't know why he is rated as high as he is (Top 30) based on his current play even as a 17 year old. Toews was 3 months younger than O'Brien at the same time last year and he had a much bigger impact. Has O'Brien scored a point yet?

Nope. He has played in 10 of Minnesota's 11 games thus far though.

5mn Major: I agree with you on Auffrey and Williams but I disagree on Swystun. He actually wasn't all that bad, especially considering that he came in with a bunch of other newcomers on a Michigan team that was re-building (or re-tooling, depending upon your point of view). Had Swystun stayed at U-M, IMO I think he could've developed into a impact player this year, though I don't he would've been leading the Wolverines in scoring.

 

[VOB]

Both Williams and O'Brien chose teams that feature alot of depth so naturally playing time was/is going to be an issue. Had either chosen to play for Tech or Mankato or heck even St Cloud, ice time would have been easier to earn and perhaps Williams would still be in the WCHA.

Swysten wasn't really ready for the NCAA as a 17 year old. He would have been OK this year but he has alot of defensive issues to deal with. He had a good start in the dub but the physical play and the grind is begining to catch up to him.

 

[5mn Major]

Honestly, I don't know why he is rated as high as he is (Top 30) based on his current play even as a 17 year old. Toews was 3 months younger than O'Brien at the same time last year and he had a much bigger impact. Has O'Brien scored a point yet?

The step into the WCHA for any 17 yo is a big one...regardless of where you've been playing. Take Kessel, he came in with some of the biggest accolades given to a recruit in recent years. But once in day-to-day play of the league, there were questions. Posters were wondering what was wrong with him, started questioning his play and his stock took a hit. But notice that when he got out of the league, people were very impressed with his skillsets and posters were wondering why folks criticized him so. IMO it says far more of the challenge of moving to the WCHA than it did about Phil Kessel. Just as with Kessel, OBrien has the resume for all of the accolades he's received...we'll know more about OBrien by the end of the year. Even then...based on level of play in the WCHA...his development may be further along than his stat line may indicate.

Toews was a very rare talent...and was drafted as such.

 

[Hasbro]

Both Williams and O'Brien chose teams that feature alot of depth so naturally playing time was/is going to be an issue. Had either chosen to play for Tech or Mankato or heck even St Cloud, ice time would have been easier to earn and perhaps Williams would still be in the WCHA.

Swysten wasn't really ready for the NCAA as a 17 year old. He would have been OK this year but he has alot of defensive issues to deal with. He had a good start in the dub but the physical play and the grind is begining to catch up to him.

Things like that lead me to believe we'll see talent more equaly dispersed in the NCAA. If Williams went to a good program in the CCHA (UNO, OSU, NMU) he probably would have gotten 2nd pair PT.