NBA Low Ratings Compared to NHL Ratings

[Butch 19]

Look buddy, nobody wants it to be as big as the NBA, NFL or MLB. WE JUST WANT IT TO BE RESPECTED. WE WANT COVERAGE.

?? nobody wants to be as big as the NBA, NFL or MLB? Why not?

Respect? What does this mean? Someone "respects" a sport?

Coverage? bingo -that's the one. Get as big as the NBA and we will get COVERAGE. I'm so tired of going to the internet for hockey news.

 

[Butch 19]

Your so ignorant.

Note to self: be careful when spelling "your" vs. "you're" when calling someone else ignorant...

 

[frivolousz21]

The NBA coverage based on tv ratings is extreme...the nhl gets about what they deserve nationally.

if your local NHL market doesnt talk hockey let them know...we did in st louis.

soon most coverage nationally will be baseball and football

 

[Spungo*]

The NHL got the lowest ratings for a show in Primetime in history.

No they didn't.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

It's not the responsibility of a news outlet to market a product. ESPN are more than a news outlet, they are also an entertainment operation. It may be biased journalism to favor their own products on their "news" shows, but I doubt many will ever care.

Marketing is expensive. It's the responsibility of the league and teams. Sometimes leagues pay for it indirectly by choosing the right broadcast partner who can market for them.

Did the NHL ever get comparable championship ratings to the NBA? In 1997 it was a 4.0.

Here are the NBA final round averages (through 2002 each game/share listed, :
NBC 1997 15.8/27 15.1/27 14.2/27 16.9/30 20.1/35 18.5/35 None
NBC 1998 18.0/32 16.6/31 16.2/28 19.1/33 19.8/37 22.3/38 None
NBC 1999 11.5/20 9.6/19 12.1/21 12.0/22 11.0/22 None
NBC 2000 10.5/18 9.9/20 10.9/19 13.1/24 10.0/20 14.7/26 None
NBC 2001 12.4/23 11.7/22 12.7/23 12.6/23 11.2/22 None
NBC 2002 10.6/20 9.1/18 10.2/18 10.8/19 None
ABC 2003 6.4/11 5.2/10 7.0/12 6.6/12 6.2/12 7.5/14 None
ABC 2004 9.8/17 10.7/19 10.5/19 12.7/22 13.8/23 None
ABC 2005 7.2/13 6.9/12 7.2/13 7.2/13 8.4/15 8.8/15 11.9/22
ABC 2006 7.8/14 8.0/14 8.0/14 7.8/14 9.0/17 10.1/18 None

The NBA had a dip after switching to ABC. But their lows of 6-8 are better than anything the NHL has averaged out for the last 10 years. No matter how much the Stanley Cup playoffs are marketed, I think there is some ceiling. To get higher, the NHL would need to grow the sport amongst US fans - something they're failing at (if it's their goal).

Anyways I think sports reporters have so many sports to cover, they love to write off most sports as unimportant. It makes their job much easier.

FYI, here are the NHL figures averaged for the same period (including this year):

Stanley Cup Finals
Year Network Teams Games Carried Rating
1997 Fox Detroit-Philadelphia 1 4.0
1998 Fox Detroit-Washington 1 3.3
1999 Fox Dallas-Buffalo 3 3.4
2000 ABC New Jersey-Dallas 4 3.7
2001 ABC Colorado-New Jersey 5 3.3
2002 ABC Detroit-Carolina 3 3.6
2003 ABC New Jersey-Anaheim 5 2.9
2004 ABC Tampa Bay-Calgary 5 2.6
2006 NBC Carolina-Edmonton 5 2.3
2006 OLN Carolina-Edmonton 2 0.9
2007 NBC Anaheim-Ottawa 3 1.9
2007 VRS Anaheim-Ottawa 2 0.66

GHOST

 

[Mr Underhill]

FYI, here are the NHL figures averaged for the same period (including this year):

Stanley Cup Finals
Year Network Teams Games Carried Rating
1997 Fox Detroit-Philadelphia 1 4.0
1998 Fox Detroit-Washington 1 3.3
1999 Fox Dallas-Buffalo 3 3.4
2000 ABC New Jersey-Dallas 4 3.7
2001 ABC Colorado-New Jersey 5 3.3
2002 ABC Detroit-Carolina 3 3.6
2003 ABC New Jersey-Anaheim 5 2.9
2004 ABC Tampa Bay-Calgary 5 2.6
2006 NBC Carolina-Edmonton 5 2.3
2006 OLN Carolina-Edmonton 2 0.9
2007 NBC Anaheim-Ottawa 3 1.9
2007 VRS Anaheim-Ottawa 2 0.66

GHOST

Looking at these numbers i see the NHL going through some rough times but not dead like some think. If we saw a reapeat of the 97' (Detroit - Philadelphia) finals what do you think the ratings would be like?

 

[jkrdevil]

Looking at these numbers i see the NHL going through some rough times but not dead like some think. If we saw a reapeat of the 97' (Detroit - Philadelphia) finals what do you think the ratings would be like?

Probably somewhere around a 3.2 average for the series.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Looking at these numbers i see the NHL going through some rough times but not dead like some think. If we saw a reapeat of the 97' (Detroit - Philadelphia) finals what do you think the ratings would be like?

The last three cups all included "non-traditional" teams versus a Canadian teams and the Canadian ratings are obviously not included. I think there would be a large spike if two established large market teams like Detroit and Philadelphia played in the finals. The problem is that there are so many teams in the league now that the chances of that happening are not as great as they used to be and it won't likely occur on a regular basis.

GHOST

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Imagine what the U.S. ratings would be like if the Finals pitted Vancouver against Toronto.

And some of you thought this year's ratings looked bad ... they'd look stellar compared to an all-Canadian Final. However, I'm sure in Canada it would look like the '87 Canada Cup all over again.

 

[Mr Underhill]

The last three cups all included "non-traditional" teams versus a Canadian teams and the Canadian ratings are obviously not included. I think there would be a large spike if two established large market teams like Detroit and Philadelphia played in the finals. The problem is that there are so many teams in the league now that the chances of that happening are not as great as they used to be and it won't likely occur on a regular basis.

GHOST

Just because its unlikely doesnt mean its a bad thing. It just tells you that people are still def. intrested in the NHL and its not dead.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

Just because its unlikely doesnt mean its a bad thing. It just tells you that people are still def. intrested in the NHL and its not dead.

No, it tells you that people are interested in a certain team, not the NHL as a whole.

 

[Mr Underhill]

No, it tells you that people are interested in a certain team, not the NHL as a whole.

Dude, what are you talking about? Better yet what the hell are you trying to prove? If people in Philly are intersted in the Flyers than that means their NHL fans. If there not fans of the game of hockey then they wouldnt suport the team. Do you think Joe down in Orlando is intrested in San Antonio or Cleveland? No. Not everyone from other cities needs to be intrested in out of market teams in order for a league to be considered popular. The only league that gets that attention is the NFL and thats because the games are only once a week and only 16 games a year.

 

[Cawz]

A note on the NBA, and since this is in the Business section...

They said that LeBron has increased the value of the Cavaliers franchise by $158 million dollars.

Pretty incredible.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

Dude, what are you talking about? Better yet what the hell are you trying to prove? If people in Philly are intersted in the Flyers than that means their NHL fans. If there not fans of the game of hockey then they wouldnt suport the team. Do you think Joe down in Orlando is intrested in San Antonio or Cleveland? No. Not everyone from other cities needs to be intrested in out of market teams in order for a league to be considered popular. The only league that gets that attention is the NFL and thats because the games are only once a week and only 16 games a year.

If Joe is a Flyers fan and will only watch the playoffs if the Flyers are in them, how does that help the NHL? Joe isn't going to tune in to watch Ottawa vs. Anaheim in the Stanley Cup finals. Joe probably also isn't going to tune into NBC to watch the nationally televised regular season hockey game if his team the Philadelphia Flyers aren't playing.

Now multiply Joe a million times over and you get why the ratings for nationally televised NHL games are so low. Joe is a fan of the team and not the league as a whole.

 

[MLH]

Imagine what the U.S. ratings would be like if the Finals pitted Vancouver against Toronto.

And some of you thought this year's ratings looked bad ... they'd look stellar compared to an all-Canadian Final. However, I'm sure in Canada it would look like the '87 Canada Cup all over again.

Why? What did the LA market average for the series, a 3.0? 150K households is a couple of tenths, hardly a huge impact. I bet the ratings would actually be higher. One would think there would be more interest in the traditional US markets. I know Buffalo would be a lot more intrigued.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Why? What did the LA market average for the series, a 3.0? 150K households is a couple of tenths, hardly a huge impact. I bet the ratings would actually be higher. One would think there would be more interest in the traditional US markets. I know Buffalo would be a lot more intrigued.

That's an interesting point. I wonder which would be a better SCFs draw in the US north east or places like up-state New York, Minnesota, Colorado, Illinois and Michigan or the USA as a whole for that matter:

a) Maple Leafs vs Canucks
b) Habs vs Oilers
c) Panthers vs Predators
d) Thrashers vs Anaheim

I think it's a valid question.

GHOST

 

[MLH]

That's an interesting point. I wonder which would be a better SCFs draw in the US north east or places like up-state New York, Minnesota, Colorado, Illinois and Michigan or the USA as a whole for that matter:

a) Maple Leafs vs Canucks
b) Habs vs Oilers
c) Panthers vs Predators
d) Thrashers vs Anaheim

I think it's a valid question.

GHOST

I'd be shocked if the best ratings from both the traditional markets and the country as a whole weren't best for Laffs/Nucks.

The only American market that has the combination of interest and size to move national ratings is Detroit. New York's interest level has been so pathetically low lately that I can't even include them, but a SCF trip might generate interest that the 2nd round couldn't. Pittsburgh's close, but not quite there. Buffalo has plenty of interest, but a ratings point is only 6,500 households. Even the 40's Buffalo would likely average would only be 250K-300K homes, though factoring in Rochester also helps.

The notion that Anaheim's .12 boost to the overall national rating couldn't be countered by a potentially historic match-up between two Canadian teams is laughable.

EDIT: Forgot about Philly. They would be close too, but I don't think quite enough to make a substantial impact.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

You don't think most of the U.S. would tune out an all-Canadian final? Sure, the die-hard hockey fans would tune in - they'd tune in if it was the '75 Capitals and the '93 Senators. Joe Schmoe who casually follows hockey is going to look and say, "Meh - no one from the U.S. is in, why bother?" Why would more people would tune in to an all-Canadian final - because it's "historic"?

The past Finals were historic: one of the two teams was going to win their first ever Cup. The result: much of the U.S. was apathetic.

(Note: St. Louis posted better numbers all-around for this year's Finals than it did last year ... and that's with Versus still unavailable in decent swaths of the St. Louis area; the NBC rating averaged 2.8 for Games 3-5; for comparison, Game 1 of the NBC Finals only drew 3.1 in the Gateway City.)
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sp...74A37A6D3B71898A862572F5000EBC58?OpenDocument


From "traditional" markets? Again - if there's so many die-hard fans in those markets, why weren't they watching this year? Maybe because
1. There really aren't as many die-hard fans as we'd like to think,
2. They really were watching but were undercounted (see the numerous posts on how Nielsen can't count viewers accurately), or
3. They're die-hard fans but only as long as their team is involved.

Except for the die-hards, the U.S. would ignore an all-Canadian Final even more than it did this past Final. People tuned out the '06 World Cup when the U.S. got bounced and didn't come back until the championship; even more people said they'd start paying attention if the U.S. won a few games. Why would the NHL suddenly be different?

 

[MLH]

You don't think most of the U.S. would tune out an all-Canadian final? Sure, the die-hard hockey fans would tune in - they'd tune in if it was the '75 Capitals and the '93 Senators. Joe Schmoe who casually follows hockey is going to look and say, "Meh - no one from the U.S. is in, why bother?" Why would more people would tune in to an all-Canadian final - because it's "historic"?

The past Finals were historic: one of the two teams was going to win their first ever Cup. The result: much of the U.S. was apathetic.

(Note: St. Louis posted better numbers all-around for this year's Finals than it did last year ... and that's with Versus still unavailable in decent swaths of the St. Louis area; the NBC rating averaged 2.8 for Games 3-5; for comparison, Game 1 of the NBC Finals only drew 3.1 in the Gateway City.)
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sp...74A37A6D3B71898A862572F5000EBC58?OpenDocument


From "traditional" markets? Again - if there's so many die-hard fans in those markets, why weren't they watching this year? Maybe because
1. There really aren't as many die-hard fans as we'd like to think,
2. They really were watching but were undercounted (see the numerous posts on how Nielsen can't count viewers accurately), or
3. They're die-hard fans but only as long as their team is involved.

Except for the die-hards, the U.S. would ignore an all-Canadian Final even more than it did this past Final. People tuned out the '06 World Cup when the U.S. got bounced and didn't come back until the championship; even more people said they'd start paying attention if the U.S. won a few games. Why would the NHL suddenly be different?

I totally disagree with all of this. No one that's watching in America cares that Anaheim is an American city. Joe Schmoe doesn't decide whether he's going to watch based on the country that the franchise resides in. That's ridiculous. If Anaheim was in BC and not California, it wouldn't change the viewership in Buffalo, Philly, or Boston. Who actually thinks in terms of the franchise's country except for Canadians? Americans simply don't care.

The Leafs are the most polarizing team in the NHL. Interest in Buffalo would be dramatically higher because most Sabres fans would prefer Toronto never winning the Cup. I'd imagine many traditional markets would do the same.

People don't ignore hockey on TV because of the franchise's nationality. A Toronto/Vancouver finals would have better ratings than Ottawa/Anaheim. Hell, there are probably a similar amount of Leaf and Duck fans in the States.

 

[jkrdevil]

I totally disagree with all of this. No one that's watching in America cares that Anaheim is an American city. Joe Schmoe doesn't decide whether he's going to watch based on the country that the franchise resides in. That's ridiculous. If Anaheim was in BC and not California, it wouldn't change the viewership in Buffalo, Philly, or Boston. Who actually thinks in terms of the franchise's country except for Canadians? Americans simply don't care.

The Leafs are the most polarizing team in the NHL. Interest in Buffalo would be dramatically higher because most Sabres fans would prefer Toronto never winning the Cup. I'd imagine many traditional markets would do the same.

People don't ignore hockey on TV because of the franchise's nationality. A Toronto/Vancouver finals would have better ratings than Ottawa/Anaheim. Hell, there are probably a similar amount of Leaf and Duck fans in the States.

The big problem with the ratings the last few years is that has only featured 1 US market that gets a bump from having a team in the final. With Vancouver vs Toronto that would be 0 markets with a team. Markets with a team in the final tend have more people watch which helps the national ratings. Not having any that counts in the rating would significantly hurt it.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

The only American market that has the combination of interest and size to move national ratings is Detroit. New York's interest level has been so pathetically low lately that I can't even include them, but a SCF trip might generate interest that the 2nd round couldn't. Pittsburgh's close, but not quite there. Buffalo has plenty of interest, but a ratings point is only 6,500 households. Even the 40's Buffalo would likely average would only be 250K-300K homes, though factoring in Rochester also helps.

Just in terms of who's "in the conversation" here, if you're going to include Buffalo and Pittsburgh, Colorado should also be mentioned here. The Denver market was nestled right between Buffalo and Pittsburgh for some of the local ratings posted here for this year's finals. (I believe as the #2 market in the country for the ratings that were quoted, behind only Buffalo.) And that's with the Avs not even involved in the playoffs at any stage (while both Pittsburgh and Buffalo were, and Buffalo was all the way into the conference finals). Additionally, the Denver market has pulled numbers as high as a 65-share when the Avs were in the finals.

Colorado probably doesn't have the huge population to "move the nation," of course, but when mentioning those markets that have great interest and are just short on population (like Buffalo and Pittsburgh), Colorado should definitely be mentioned as well.

 

[Doc Scurlock]

The big problem with the ratings the last few years is that has only featured 1 US market that gets a bump from having a team in the final. With Vancouver vs Toronto that would be 0 markets with a team. Markets with a team in the final tend have more people watch which helps the national ratings. Not having any that counts in the rating would significantly hurt it.

And that's a unique problem that the NHL faces. None of the other major sports leagues have multiple teams in Canada.

 

[South Florida Canuck]

2. They really were watching but were undercounted (see the numerous posts on how Nielsen can't count viewers accurately), or

Funny you mention this. One is foolish ever to trust such a rigged measurement as "Nielsen Ratings" of Television show watching. Ratings are owned and operated by the New World Order types, and the most hated television event in (New World Order) history is the NHL Stanley Cup playoff. Of course it will be poorly rated. If it were Red Wings against New York Rangers with star-studded lineups and outstanding hockey, it still would receive "World's worst" ratings according to the press.

I was watching. Why wasn't I counted in the count? Because Nielsen and other counting companies place their counting machines in hand-picked "residences" in Metro New York and other urban non-white zones

 

[MLH]

The big problem with the ratings the last few years is that has only featured 1 US market that gets a bump from having a team in the final. With Vancouver vs Toronto that would be 0 markets with a team. Markets with a team in the final tend have more people watch which helps the national ratings. Not having any that counts in the rating would significantly hurt it.

And as stated above, that's pretty much a big myth. Detroit's the only American market that's going to have a substantial impact on the national figure. If Carolina and Anaheim were to have played in the SCF's, the two local markets would have boosted the national rating by 0.2.

New York might be able to move the national rating simply based on size. They drew huge numbers for the Cup Finals in 94, but I'm guessing they also did better than a 1.5 they put up this year for the second round in 1994.

Carolina, Tampa Bay, Washington, Atlanta, Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, Boston, Columbus, Nashville, Anaheim, LA Kings, Dallas, Phoenix, and San Jose would all make negligible impacts on the total figure because the local ratings aren't high enough.

Denver, Minneapolis, and St Louis (all markets that would put up very solid numbers) don't have the size/interest combo. All 3 are somewhat close to Detroit in terms of size (14K, 17K, 12K per point to Detroit's 19K), but wouldn't get Detroit's rating. They would make a marginal impact.

Buffalo and Pittsburgh would get huge ratings, but aren't big enough to do anything but a marginal impact. (6.5K and 11K)

I don't know enough about Philly and Chicago's ratings to gauge. They're both big (29K and 34K), I just don't know what the ratings would be like if they made the Cup Finals.

Bottom line is there isn't a single NHL market that will boost the national rating by 0.5.

 

[MLH]

I was watching. Why wasn't I counted in the count? Because Nielsen and other counting companies place their counting machines in hand-picked "residences" in Metro New York and other urban non-white zones

I was wondering why NASCAR ratings were so high. You know how popular it is with urban non-whites.

Nielsen ratings are certainly flawed, but it's not a conspiracy and they're still the be all in TV advertising.