OT: Nats, Wiz, O's, Ravens, Terps, DC United, Navy, Gtown, etc. : Version VII

[hockeykicker]

Nats offered a lot more money but he didn't wanna leave la

 

[Bananas]

This is the worst 6 months of GMing in Nats history. McFail level bad if not outright worse. Hedging at the deadline by only getting Melancon, then not resigning Melancon, then the cluster**** Eaton trade, now missing out on all the other available closers. We are worse or the same everywhere except 2B and gutted the farm...unreal the Caps' virus has officially infected the other home-grown contender. The Caps if they stay at contender level need to do whatever it takes to get over the hump. If we move a mid-round pick for a plug again I'm gonna officially lose my ****...

Well...what's left of it...

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Nats have made terrible moves. Just think if we would have traded lil Gio for Andrew Miller last season. We would have a closer at 9 mill and could have had a dominate pen in the postseason.

 

[Hivemind]

Wait, are people still bashing MacPhail? What on Earth?

Duquette may have put the team over the hump and into the playoffs (with a bigger budget than MacPhail ever had), but the core of the Orioles was brought together by MacPhail. Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, JJ Hardy, and Chris Davis were all acquired via trade by MacPhail. MacPhail drafted Machado, Wieters, and Bundy. MacPhail built the core of the Orioles, Duquette just added the filler.

 

[Caps Circle]

While I hated the Eaton trade in terms of what we lost, I don't think you can deny that we're a better constructed team now than we were at this point last year.

Werth/Eaton/Harper > Werth/Revere/Harper
Rendon/Turner/Murphy/Zim > Rendon/Espinosa/Murphy/Zim
Norris < Ramos

And the pitching staff is the same: Scherzer, Strasburg, Roark, Gio, Ross. Obviously the bullpen is weak, but we didn't have Melancon to start last year, and I don't think he'll have as good a season this year. Missing out on Jansen and Chapman hurts.

This team is still flawed and the Eaton trade will look terrible once Giolito is a perennial all-star for the Sox, but in all honesty this team has two years to win the Series with Harper. Once that's passed we can re-start our rebuild.

 

[Caps Circle]

Wait, are people still bashing MacPhail? What on Earth?

Duquette may have put the team over the hump and into the playoffs (with a bigger budget than MacPhail ever had), but the core of the Orioles was brought together by MacPhail. Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, JJ Hardy, and Chris Davis were all acquired via trade by MacPhail. MacPhail drafted Machado, Wieters, Gausman, and Bundy. MacPhail built the core of the Orioles, Duquette just added the filler.

Lol I'm pretty sure he meant McFail as in GMGM.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Nats offered a lot more money but he didn't wanna leave la

The Nats offer included deferred money, so the net present value of the Nats' deal may have been lower than the Dodgers'. Also, Jansen has an opt-out clause with the Dodgers to leave after three seasons, and we don't know if the Nats offered one as well.

 

[hockeykicker]

George mason up 17 over longwood in first half. A win tonight and they are 9-3 overall. Been a while since mason had a good bball team

 

[Slateman]

The Nats offer included deferred money, so the net present value of the Nats' deal may have been lower than the Dodgers'. Also, Jansen has an opt-out clause with the Dodgers to leave after three seasons, and we don't know if the Nats offered one as well.

This, though I think the Nats would have, and should have given an opt out. The question would have been if the deferred money would have been kept even with the opt out.

The bottom line is that deferring money has cost this team free agents, and may ultimately cost them post season success.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Turned on my 1st Wiz game of the year because there was nothing else worth watching. When I did the Wiz went on a 10 point run in the 3rd and were playing good. Kept it going in the 4th until 2 min when they tried to **** the game away.

10 seconds left the Hornets get the ball down 3. Hornets get the ball at mid court and put up a 3 that misses. Then a scramble for the ball and a Hornet player grabs it and then, I **** you not, he takes FIVE steps to get behind the 3pt line to put up a last second 3. The guy took FIVE steps 1, 2, 3, 4, FIVE steps without taking a dribble. FIVE. The Wiz almost lost on a last second 3 after a Hornet player took FIVE steps across the court without taking a dribble. Can't get over that.

And Buck briefly mentions it during the game and all the post game crew can talk about was how the guy missed the shot. Nothing about the FIVE steps without a dribble. FIVE.

And thats why this will probably be the last NBA game I watch this year until the playoffs, if I watch the playoffs. The most basic rule in Basketball, maybe even organized sports, and the NBA Refs won't enforce it. FIVE steps. Thats more than Lebron's favorite crab dribble. That was a Sasquatch dribble. Absurd.

Rant over.

*edit*

Watching slow motion replay Walker did put a dribble down, it was blocked by his leg at full speed, but he took 3 steps after the dribble to get behind the arc. Still traveling, but its the NBA. Still absurd and my rant above stands. I hate the NBA.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Basketball is a beautiful sport. The NBA has ruined it.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Basketball is a beautiful sport. The NBA has ruined it.

NBA was must watch when I was growing up. I caught the tail end of Magic/Bird but I was paying full attention during the Bad Boys era and then the emergence of Michael Jordan. The NBA was great, even though traveling was liberally enforced during Jordan's run. Still compelling games, with no background music while play was ongoing.

During this time College Basketball was right on par with the NBA, IMO. Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc... and then some Cinderella teams like Paterno's Kentucky team that lost on Laettner's last second greatest shot of all time. And Arizona's somewhat Cinderella run in '97 the culminated with an OT win over Kentucky for the Championship.

During this time our beloved Terps were rebuilt by Gary Williams and CBB really took over for me. The '94 and '95 sweet 16 teams led by Joe Smith and Keith Booth. The Steve Francis for a year followed by the Championship run led by Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter and Steve Blake. Followed by the up and down years led by John Gilchrist and Nik Caner-Medley.

Basketball as a sport to follow starting losing me when Carmelo Anthony opened the one and done era of CBB and the NBA. IMO, the college game suffered because all the good players were gone after 1 year. It took a couple more years after Carmelo, but good teams had no 2-3 year runs anymore. Players like JJ Redick, that opposing fans loved to hate, were phased out. Rivalries like Duke/UNC suffered as well and Maryland dropped their ACC rivals without a second thought to join the Big10 for money. As a result, the NBA started to get filled with one and doners who showed up without the basketball skills staying at college would of taught them. The NBA turned into, basically, an individual game full of players that can't play defense, or won't. At least thats how I see the sport of basketball now. A shell of its former self.

 

[twabby]

The NBA is probably the best of the major sports leagues and I'm not even a big fan of basketball. Maybe the quality of defense and some of the officiating is questionable, but it is by far the most entertaining of all of the major sports leagues in recent memory.

The NFL does everything it can to make watching football a chore and actively harms its players, the NHL hates individual personalities and they have no problem locking out every time a new CBA comes up, and baseball is becoming less and less popular by the day. Hockey is still my favorite sport, but damn is it hard to like anything the NHL has done is recent memory.

Meanwhile, the NBA promotes individuals and personality and had/has legitimate superstars (everyone in the entire world knows who LeBron James is), has a huge social media and pop-culture presence, somehow is able to strike a deal on a new CBA in a timely manner, and isn't relegated to second tier cable channels for their national broadcasts.

And forgive me for having no sympathy for how one-and-done affects college basketball and the NCAA, probably the most damaging and corrupt sporting body outside of maybe FIFA. Personally I'd rather players be able to skip college altogether and let them start their careers in the NBA as soon as teams want to draft them. (also the 35 second shot clock blows)

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I like playoff NBA only...same with MLB now. College BB started losing me when Joe Smith left MD early. That was the beginning of the end for me of heavy rooting. Before that, I was hardcore, watching the east coast, then the west coast BB games. Those were fun days...then players started leaving early and it stole the rooting interest for me, the greats just left right away.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Good stuff, Hog. As a UConn fan, their run in 2011 was the apex of my basketball viewing enjoyment. That run with Kemba was incredible.

twabby, I think Hog is more lamenting the change in how the game is played vs the way the league runs itself. I agree that the NBA is the best run league. The players and the league have a pretty close relationship. I don't think it's a coincidence that this occurs in a league that has the fewest players per team.

I love basketball, so I watch both college and the NBA regularly, but Hog is pretty much spot on. The quality sucks. Gone are the days of team offense and tough defense. Team offense now consists primarily of hero ball. The officiating is terrible. It's just not a great product.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

In the NBA any team can have a HUGE lead going in to the last 10 mins and almost every single time, the other team decides to play hard and comes back. This happens so much I started just watching the 4th quarter lol...

 

[usiel]

NBA was must watch when I was growing up. I caught the tail end of Magic/Bird but I was paying full attention during the Bad Boys era and then the emergence of Michael Jordan. The NBA was great, even though traveling was liberally enforced during Jordan's run. Still compelling games, with no background music while play was ongoing.

During this time College Basketball was right on par with the NBA, IMO. Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc... and then some Cinderella teams like Paterno's Kentucky team that lost on Laettner's last second greatest shot of all time. And Arizona's somewhat Cinderella run in '97 the culminated with an OT win over Kentucky for the Championship.

During this time our beloved Terps were rebuilt by Gary Williams and CBB really took over for me. The '94 and '95 sweet 16 teams led by Joe Smith and Keith Booth. The Steve Francis for a year followed by the Championship run led by Juan Dixon, Lonny Baxter and Steve Blake. Followed by the up and down years led by John Gilchrist and Nik Caner-Medley.

Basketball as a sport to follow starting losing me when Carmelo Anthony opened the one and done era of CBB and the NBA. IMO, the college game suffered because all the good players were gone after 1 year. It took a couple more years after Carmelo, but good teams had no 2-3 year runs anymore. Players like JJ Redick, that opposing fans loved to hate, were phased out. Rivalries like Duke/UNC suffered as well and Maryland dropped their ACC rivals without a second thought to join the Big10 for money. As a result, the NBA started to get filled with one and doners who showed up without the basketball skills staying at college would of taught them. The NBA turned into, basically, an individual game full of players that can't play defense, or won't. At least thats how I see the sport of basketball now. A shell of its former self.

First bolded this time for me for the NBA basically mid 80s. And the either the music or super loud fake clapping sfx during play is intolerable these days. Jordan prime scoring time was just insane. Probably biased obviously having seen him play versus the older greats but the best of all time for me for sure.

 

[usiel]

In the NBA any team can have a HUGE lead going in to the last 10 mins and almost every single time, the other team decides to play hard and comes back. This happens so much I started just watching the 4th quarter lol...

Often times if I've dvr'd a zards game I'll just start from the 2nd half for that being one of the reasons. Plus regular season versus playoff of NBA basketball is way different.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Good stuff, Hog. As a UConn fan, their run in 2011 was the apex of my basketball viewing enjoyment. That run with Kemba was incredible.

twabby, I think Hog is more lamenting the change in how the game is played vs the way the league runs itself. I agree that the NBA is the best run league. The players and the league have a pretty close relationship. I don't think it's a coincidence that this occurs in a league that has the fewest players per team.

I love basketball, so I watch both college and the NBA regularly, but Hog is pretty much spot on. The quality sucks. Gone are the days of team offense and tough defense. Team offense now consists primarily of hero ball. The officiating is terrible. It's just not a great product.

This is what I was trying to say. Basketball is pretty much an individual sport in the NBA and CBB has suffered from the one and doners because a recruiting class, or core group of players, don't stick together for 2-3 years anymore.

Look at Diamond Stone. Stone dropped like a stone to the 2nd round and he is doing a whole lot of nothing averaging 4.7 min a game. Is he getting the coaching in the NBA he needs to develop? Most likely not. Now what if the NBA had a 3 year rule like the NFL? Stone would have another 2 years at UMD to develop, earn credits towards a degree and who knows how good the Terps would be this year with a 2nd year Stone helping some of those freshman to transition into college.

And Stone isn't an isolated case. Just look at Kentucky in the Calipari era and their list of one and doners who probably could of benefited from staying in school. Daniel Orton (29th overall, playing in Lebanon), Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (2nd overall in '12, 9.7ppg in 4 years), Marquis Teague (29th overall in '12, playing in Russia), Archie Goodwin (29th overall, 6.2ppg in 4 years), James Young (17th overall, 2.2ppg in 2 years). And there are a number of 2 and done players, like the Harrison Twins, that are languishing on NBA benches or are in the D-League or over seas instead of enrolled in College developing and earning credits towards a degree. Its happening across CBB and its brought the quality of play in both CBB and the NBA way down, IMO.

 

[twabby]

So what's your preferred alternative to the one-and-done rule? Force kids to play a full 4 (or at least 3) years of college before they become draft eligible?

You make really good points about how the college game has suffered due to players leaving early, but in the end I really don't care because NCAA athletes aren't getting paid and the schools make bank (it's more of a problem in college football, but it still applies to basketball). If the NCAA cares about its product then they should start paying the kids and stop pretending that the sanctity of "student-athletes" is a thing they really care about. In the end, players who opt to leave school early are making a calculated risk and they should absolutely have that option, especially since having a college degree is more and more worthless as the years go on. Even if Diamond Stone ends up busting, a quick Google search shows he's going to make close to $1.5 million over the next two years guaranteed. He shouldn't be denied that opportunity so he can "get an education".

And honestly I think the NBA is a really good product now mainly due to it having interesting icons like Lebron James, Steph Curry, Durant, etc. These are household names and the games are very compelling. Good defense and team offense is really boring to most fans, unless you are a San Antonio fan. I would guess most people prefer dunks and watching Lebron take over a game in the 4th quarter.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I think guys get bad advice. Just because you have a 1st round grade doesn't mean you should leave. I'm all for guys leveraging their skills to maximize their talents but I don't think the NCAA, NBA, agents, or family/friends have these kids' best interests in mind. I'm assuming that nobody is telling these kids the truth, which is that they have a very very short time period to adjust in the NBA and show they're worth something or they're easily replaceable by the next kid with big dreams and an overinflated sense of self.

Not sure what the answer is but stories like the ones that Hog posted are becoming more and more common. I have to imagine recruiting pitches have changed from, "Come play for me at [insert college name here]. You'll get a top notch education, learn the game of basketball, make lasting friendships, develop as a man, and be set up to succeed in life either in basketball or in another capacity," to, "Come play for me. You're ABSOLUTELY a first round talent and you're going to make it BIG in the NBA. We're the guys to get you in front of the right scouts."

 

[Hivemind]

If I had the opportunity to cash out immediately and actually earn a living for not just myself, but also my family, I would take it. Could some of these guys develop more in the NCAA? Sure. But it's no guarantee that they're going to have the same opportunity in a year or two. Their draft value can decline simply by not showing enough improvement. On the catastrophic end of things, they could tear an ACL or some other significant injury. For many, the risks associated with staying in the NCAA far outweigh the rewards of getting an immediate payout on their talents so far. This is doubly true when they have parents or family that are going to benefit from their success. Getting a contract inked can help their parents pay off their mortgage and credit cards. The immediate benefits are simply too valuable to pass up.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd prefer to see a 20 yr old draft minimum. These guys SHOULD BE for the most part learning valuable life skills and lesson in college. As a parent, I'd hope my kid would go to college instead of selfishly wanting for him or her to cash in my early retirement. Now, if there are severe financial/medical hardships, I get wanting to cash in early.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/77004/odds-are-selling-the-farm-is-worth-the-risk

Wait a minute -- did the Nats really get robbed? Maybe not

 

[Hivemind]

I'd prefer to see a 20 yr old draft minimum. These guys SHOULD BE for the most part learning valuable life skills and lesson in college. As a parent, I'd hope my kid would go to college instead of selfishly wanting for him or her to cash in my early retirement. Now, if there are severe financial/medical hardships, I get wanting to cash in early.

It's not really about being selfish, it's about opportunity cost. They have the opportunity to land themselves a few million guaranteed right then. There's a cost associated with passing up that opportunity.