My 32 Team NHL

[angry_treefrog]

Considering how expansion was offset by the influx of European players in the 90s, I also fail to understand how contraction will automagically fix everything.

I've argued that one of the reasons scoring was so common in the 80s was the lower talent level that you found amongst the bottom feeding teams in a 21 team NHL - guys that would have a hard time making an AHL roster in 2007 were playing regular minutes in places like Pittsburgh, New Jersey and Toronto.

Also, others saying the NHL is in trouble will have to explain how a league whose revenue continues to increase without end (roughly $2.4 billion this year) is in trouble.

Excellent post.

Along those lines, here's a relevant quote...

"Well, it's time they got their act together. They're ruining the whole league. They had better stop running a Mickey Mouse organization and put someone on the ice."

- Wayne Gretzky 1983 - referring to the NJ Devils

 

[undraftedstlouis]

Considering how expansion was offset by the influx of European players in the 90s, I also fail to understand how contraction will automagically fix everything.

I've argued that one of the reasons scoring was so common in the 80s was the lower talent level that you found amongst the bottom feeding teams in a 21 team NHL - guys that would have a hard time making an AHL roster in 2007 were playing regular minutes in places like Pittsburgh, New Jersey and Toronto.

Also, others saying the NHL is in trouble will have to explain how a league whose revenue continues to increase without end (roughly $2.4 billion this year) is in trouble.

I certainly didn't claim it would AUTOMATICALLY fix anything. Just that it might be helpful and would be one of several changes that could be made.

The trouble is when the expenses exceed the revenues and there's no clear path towards reversing that situation in several markets. I can't explain economics in a forum. If you think only revenue matters, I can't help.



angry_treefrog - sorry if it was weak, but hope it was "rational". The NHL is failing miserably at marketing its star players. Crosby may mark a turnaround, but I doubt it. I've yet to hear a "logical" plan for how the NHL plans to better market its best players. If this isn't a goal, fine. But I don't see how current levels of spending can be sustained.

Getting back to the main topic here - would add 1 of Seattle/Portland, KC and move Nashville to Hamilton. Would discourage any other moves unless the current owner wants out of the NHL altogether.

 

[angry_treefrog]

angry_treefrog - sorry if it was weak, but hope it was "rational". The NHL is failing miserably at marketing its star players. Crosby may mark a turnaround, but I doubt it. I've yet to hear a "logical" plan for how the NHL plans to better market its best players. If this isn't a goal, fine. But I don't see how current levels of spending can be sustained.

Now there is something you and I can agree on.

 

[undraftedstlouis]

Now there is something you and I can agree on.

There doesn't seem to be an easy answer. Part of why I was pondering some radical changes.

 

[Resolute]

angry_treefrog - sorry if it was weak, but hope it was "rational". The NHL is failing miserably at marketing its star players. Crosby may mark a turnaround, but I doubt it. I've yet to hear a "logical" plan for how the NHL plans to better market its best players. If this isn't a goal, fine. But I don't see how current levels of spending can be sustained.

They can be sustained by the fact that spending is tied directly to revenue. "Salary cap" and "linkage" aren't just sexy words that get accountants all hot and bothered...

 

[Resolute]

The NHL is in trouble.

Is it?

 

[MoreOrr]

Referring to Post # 35

Wouldn't these Western Divisions make more sense?
View attachment 23536

 

[Little Fury]

Also, others saying the NHL is in trouble will have to explain how a league whose revenue continues to increase without end (roughly $2.4 billion this year) is in trouble.

Well, revenue growth doesn't tell the whole story (take away inflation and the effect of the strong loonie and the picture changes). Look at the T.V. ratings, or rather, the lack thereof. Look at the state of individual franchises- 11 teams are welfare cases as it is. Look at attendance. Look at the quality of the product on the ice. The picture that emerges is not a pretty one.

 

[undraftedstlouis]

They can be sustained by the fact that spending is tied directly to revenue. "Salary cap" and "linkage" aren't just sexy words that get accountants all hot and bothered...

I wasn't saying losses would get worse, just that some teams don't seem to have any path to improve on current levels of loss (salary cap is already here). Either franchise valuation is going up and compensating for lost money or some owners are funding hockey as a charity. I was questioning the patience and tolerance for losses of these owners.

 

[BrianSTC]

You want to contract a team from South Florida (which is full of Northeastern & Canadian transplants) and move it to Seattle (a smaller market)? Why? Because it's colder up there? Maybe we should put a team in Alaska while we're at it

.

There are lots of hockey fans up in the northwest...
Seattle, Everett, Portland, and Spokane all seem to be attracting 5,000 - 7,000 for JUNIOR hockey!

That puts all the NW teams near the top average attendance in the entire CHL!

If they can attract those kind of numbers for junior hockey, it is reasonable to assume an NHL would be a no-brainer.

Plus, a team in Seattle would be a great rivalry with Vancouver...

 

[Bruinaholic]

.

There are lots of hockey fans up in the northwest...
Seattle, Everett, Portland, and Spokane all seem to be attracting 5,000 - 7,000 for JUNIOR hockey!

That puts all the NW teams near the top average attendance in the entire CHL!

If they can attract those kind of numbers for junior hockey, it is reasonable to assume an NHL would be a no-brainer.

Plus, a team in Seattle would be a great rivalry with Vancouver...

Tickets being 5-10$ and its not a 41 home game schedule

 

[kdb209]

.

There are lots of hockey fans up in the northwest...
Seattle, Everett, Portland, and Spokane all seem to be attracting 5,000 - 7,000 for JUNIOR hockey!

That puts all the NW teams near the top average attendance in the entire CHL!

If they can attract those kind of numbers for junior hockey, it is reasonable to assume an NHL would be a no-brainer.

Plus, a team in Seattle would be a great rivalry with Vancouver...

Except for the minor detail that there are no NHL caliber available arenas nor interested owners in either Seattle or Portland - and no, the Rose Garden is not an available venue, because Paul Allen is not an interested owner.

 

[Resolute]

.

There are lots of hockey fans up in the northwest...
Seattle, Everett, Portland, and Spokane all seem to be attracting 5,000 - 7,000 for JUNIOR hockey!

Not so much Seattle, though in it's defense, KeyArena is brutal for hockey.

That puts all the NW teams near the top average attendance in the entire CHL!

Everett: 6460, 3rd WHL, 7th CHL
Spokane: 6028, 6th WHL, 10th CHL
Portland: 5189, 7th WHL, 12th CHL
Seattle: 4019, 13th WHL, 25th CHL (and behind two USHL teams)

If they can attract those kind of numbers for junior hockey, it is reasonable to assume an NHL would be a no-brainer.

If we go with that theory, then Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa all deserve second teams first, and Quebec, which averaged 2 1/2 times Seattle, before anyone else.

Plus, a team in Seattle would be a great rivalry with Vncouver...

No arena, no team. If the powerplay in the NBA fails, Seattle is out of the picture indefinitely.

 

[Resolute]

Tickets being 5-10$ and its not a 41 home game schedule

36 games isnt much less than 41.

I wish I could get a WHL ticket for $5. Junior A even charges twice that, on average.

That said, Seattle tops out at $20, and Portland at $24.

 

[CaptBrannigan]

36 games isnt much less than 41.

I wish I could get a WHL ticket for $5. Junior A even charges twice that, on average.

That said, Seattle tops out at $20, and Portland at $24.

No, 36 isn't much less than 41, but look at it this way:

We'll use Seattle and a mid-range ticket, about $12 it they top out at $20. That's $60 for an extra 5 games, per person. I don't know too many people who go alone to a game, and for a family of just 4 that's an extra $240 for just 5 games, not even including concessions, kids wanting souvenirs, parking, all that jazz.

And that's for 5 more junior games. Surely the same ticket in the NHL would be close to double that $12 price.

 

[canuck8mitchell]

west
Vancouver
Edmonton
Winnipeg
Calgary
Portland or Seattle(relocate from florida)

San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Dallas
Colorado

St. Louis
Kansas City(relocate from Atlanta)
Minnesota
Chicago
Detroit


east
Toronto
Hamilton(relocate from nashville)
Montreal
Ottawa
Quebec City(relocate from carolina)

Buffalo
NYR
NYI
Boston
New Jersey

Columbas
Tampa
Pittsburgh
Washington
Philly

 

[BrianSTC]

If we go with that theory, then Calgary, Vancouver and Ottawa all deserve second teams first, and Quebec, which averaged 2 1/2 times Seattle, before anyone else.

I wouldn't argue with that...

When I added Seattle, I did so thinking this thread was not talking immediate future, but instead 8 - 10 years down the road. Therefore, I based it on where I thought the NHL would ultimately be successful. Therefore, an proper arena wasn't a consideration. As well, you could substitute Portland into the Seattle slot...but in my opinion, a NW team makes sense.

 

[Bruinaholic]

36 games isnt much less than 41.

I wish I could get a WHL ticket for $5. Junior A even charges twice that, on average.

That said, Seattle tops out at $20, and Portland at $24.

i stand corrected

 

[Pnut]

Youre a nutty conspiracy theorist arent you? Whats with the rant about last season trade dealine and all this Isles-Rangers nonsense?

Who was placed where is arbitrary at this point. Whenever this change is made, I would suggest taking the top 20 teams from the previous season and they are in NHL1.

why just 1 season, why not 5 or 10, isles rangers nonsense? it is a big rivalry and taking away the isles from the rangers in some fictional league is not good for the league, geographical rivalries is exatly what NJ-NYR-NYI-PHI is, and it is a fair compairison off Toronto-Buff-and this Hamilton franchise? conspiracy theorist are people that rant about geting more teams to canada when the nhl started out it was anb ameican league! respect me and i will respect you, i wont bow down to you and your opinions

 

[WalterSobchak]

You can't put Jersey in a division with teams further north than NYI and NYR. Look at a map sometime.

East Rutherford is further north than MSG or Uniondale, jackass.

 

[WalterSobchak]

2 Conferences
8 Divisions
-Divisions are only for grouping purposes

Conference A
#1
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Hamilton**(if Nashville does indeed move)

#2
Portland/Seattle/Las Vegas**Expansion
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton

#3
Washington
Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Boston

#4
Minnesota
Chicago
Columbus
Detroit

Conference B
#1
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Phoenix

#2
Philadelphia
NYRangers
NYIslanders
New Jersey

#3
Colorado
Dallas
Kansas City**Expansion
St.Louis

#4
Tampa Bay
Florida
Atlanta
North Carolina

If Nashville doesn't move swap Buffalo into the same division as Toronto, swap Nasville into the same division as Atlanta and swap North Carolina into the same division as Washington.

I don't get how these Eastern teams get away with the lack of travel that they do, this should even that up. The Washington, Boston, Buffalo, Pittsburgh division is a mess but its the best I could come up with.

Play divisional rivals 5 times = 15
Play conference rivals 3 times = 36
Play non-conference rivals 2 times (home and home) = 32
_____
83 Game Season total.

Division winners get nothing, top 8 teams per conference get in.

Every team sees every other team at home every season. It probably wouldn't work but I like it.

 

[mr. Blase]

My NHL has fewer than 32 teams so the casual fan can more easily keep track of the players:

Wales Conference
Adams Division
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres
Ottawa Senators
Hamilton Tigers
Hartford Whalers

Patrick Division
New York Rangers
Pittsburgh Penguins
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Philadelphia Flyers
Hartford Whalers
Columbus Blue Jackets

Campbell Conference
Norris Division
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Blackhawks
St. Louis Blues
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Minnesota Wild

Smythe Division
Vancouver Canucks
Los Angeles Kings
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames
Colorado Avalanche
Winnipeg Jets

 

[WalterSobchak]

My NHL has fewer than 32 teams so the casual fan can more easily keep track of the players:

Wales Conference
Adams Division
Montreal Canadiens
Boston Bruins
Buffalo Sabres
Ottawa Senators
Hamilton Tigers
Hartford Whalers

Patrick Division
New York Rangers
Pittsburgh Penguins
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
Philadelphia Flyers
Hartford Whalers
Columbus Blue Jackets

Campbell Conference
Norris Division
Detroit Red Wings
Chicago Blackhawks
St. Louis Blues
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Minnesota Wild

Smythe Division
Vancouver Canucks
Los Angeles Kings
Edmonton Oilers
Calgary Flames
Colorado Avalanche
Winnipeg Jets

so that is what an off-topic, asnine and complete waste of a post looks like. Thank you for clarification.

 

[mr. Blase]

so that is what an off-topic, asnine and complete waste of a post looks like. Thank you for clarification.

so that is what an off-topic, asnine and complete waste of a post looks like. Thank you for clarification.

 

[LaefKrysis]

This thread made me like the four division idea, i like it, and it should happen. Also I would want teams in KC, and Seattle (before LV) and the league should approve the preds in Hamilton.

1st Div - West Coast Div.
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Seattle(Expansion)
San Jose
Los Angeles
Phoenix
Anaheim

2nd Div - Central
Colorado
Kansas City (Expansion)
Dallas
Minnesota
St. Louis
Atlanta
Columbus
Chicago

3rd Division - North-East Div
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Hamilton(Former Nashville)
Detroit
Buffalo
Boston
Pittsburgh

4th Division - South-East Div
NY Rangers
NY Islanders
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Washington
Tampa Bay
Florida
Carolina

Play Div. Rivals 4x for 28 games.
Play Oter Div. Teams 2x for 48 games.
For a 76 game season.
For Playoffs. The Div. Leaders make it in.
Teams Seated 2 to 7 in their respected Div. Play a Wildcard series of best of three, to determine remaining playoff seats. The Playoffs are a best of Seven. Semi Finals would have the Div. 1 winner play the Div. 4 winner. Div2 would play Div3. Winners of Semi play for the Cup. Shorter season, Longer post Season.