Confirmed with Link: MTL-ARI: Max Domi for Alex Galchenyuk

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Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
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East Coast
It's about time you realize how condescending and insulting Bergevin. It's been obvious for years, starting with his Playstation comment. As if anybody that is demanding more from him and expect improvements just live in a completely fantasy reality.
Trading for good players is very difficult, and top centers are never available...last one was Joe Thornton in Boston he said...And if you only knew what happened with the Scott trade, you'd understand it...Oh, his job is oh-so difficult...Now you can add that if you don't like this trade then you just don't know Domi...blablabla

The guy is full of crap. It's been obvious for a long time. Better late than never, glad you are finally seeing passed his BS.

If you really paid attention, my defense of Bergevin in previous years was against exaggeration time after time. I always did point out some of the negative moves he has made or has not made (According to my personal standards). Now fast forward to today... my measure is still year to year and he is clearly not learning. He is tinkering with things he should not and he is stubborn to change or unable to. I now want him gone but I still don't hate the person. I just don't trust him anymore cause his ability to adapt is just not there. He is unable to evaluate top end skill cause he never had skill as a player. That is becoming the scary truth.
 
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Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
55,329
20,272
Jeddah
If you really paid attention, my defense of Bergevin in previous years was against exaggeration time after time. I always did point out some of the negative moves he has made or has not made. Now fast forward to today... my measure is still year to year and he is clearly not learning. He is tinkering with things he should not and he is stubborn to change or unable to. I now want him gone but I still don't hate the person. I just don't trust him anymore cause his ability to adapt is just not there. He is unable to evaluate top end skill cause he never had skill as a player.
I cannot speak to the other conversations you've had here. I can point to the ones we've had, and I never exaggerated a thing. I argued with you over how terrible Bergevin was. You simply were not ready to admit it and wanted to give him more time.
We were pretty much all wrong about him, I mean, he was my pick to become GM, so this isn't a "I told you so" comment. It's a "glad you are finally seeing things clearly now" one.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,166
25,919
East Coast
I cannot speak to the other conversations you've had here. I can point to the ones we've had, and I never exaggerated a thing. I argued with you over how terrible Bergevin was. You simply were not ready to admit it and wanted to give him more time.
We were pretty much all wrong about him, I mean, he was my pick to become GM, so this isn't a "I told you so" comment. It's a "glad you are finally seeing things clearly now" one.

I've been wrong about many things I have said (and I'm not afraid to admit it) and so have you. I try to avoid attacking other posters based on past comments. Nobody is perfect and there are lots of things said. As far as you and me, I do remember a bunch of stupid post wars arguing about arguing so I hope we can avoid this moving forward.

We will agree on some things and there will be things we don't agree on. It's a discussion or debate in the end.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
I think that a lot of people were in denial of Bergevin's incompetence.

Bergevin is a moron, a narcissist, arrogant, has poor people skills, and a bigot. That's what it is, but people won't be prone to accept it. It goes against the fantasy that people have of the corporate world as objective, where the cream always rises to the top. To accept what Bergevin is, is for many people, to reject their core ideology.

Soneoone recently posted insider speculation that Galchenyuk has been on the trading block for two years. Supposedly, Bergevin did not trade him because he was afraid if looking bad if Galchenyuk succeeded elsewhere. That is an absurd story ... But it is believeable due to what a lunatic Bergevin is.
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
Serious question, why does NHL.com have Galchenyuk listed as a C if Bergevin keeps saying he's not a C and he's never played a full season as C?
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
I will discuss some of my recollections of Galchenyuk's development, guys let me know if this is accurate and reasonable.

Galchenyuk was drafted third overall and most people were happy. A few wanted Grigorenko or Forsberg, but it was widely understood that he was the third best player in the draft after Yakupov and Murray. The Habs finally had their big number 1 centre after two decades of waiting. People pointed out that his shoulders were wide, and thus his long term strength potential was high. At the time of the draft, fans debated Galchenyuk's potential, some said he would be like Jonathan Toews, others said that he was more like Marian Hossa.

He went back to junior, to make up for a lost year and due to the lockout. He started slow but improved with the London Knights. Eventually he was hitting 2.0 points per game. The only worrying thing was that he wasn't dominating enough, in particular his production was much lower against good CHL teams. I and several others did not want him to make the NHL, we wanted him to compete for the memorial cup, plus that would help the Habs tank. We wanted him to keep dominating in juniors, but Bergevin and Therrien were morons and decided to bump him up.

Galchenyuk nevertheless had a phenomenal rookie campaign, 27 points in 48 games, similar to what guys like Tavares, Stamkos, and Toews got in their first year. Galchenyuk mostly played with a combination of Prust, Gallagher, and Eller which made the achievement even more impressive. I remember one time it was pointed out that Gallagher might get injured if he got to the front of the net, and Brandon Prust intervened. He told Gallagher to play his game, and he would protect him. Those guys were great, and it was great to watch. Eller also emerged that year as a top-six threat. The future was great, it was bright.

And then, 2014 happened. It started well, Therrien said that he had high hopes for Galchenyuk, and that he would no longer be as protected this year. The Habs brought in Briere which might have allowed them to trade Desharnais. However, Desharnais started the season with 1 point in 19 games, and so Therrien rewarded him by making him first line centre, and punishing Galchenyuk and Eller. The end consequence is that the Habs potential dynastic core never actually competed for the Cup, and Eller and Galchenyuk were both never as effective (with the Habs) as they were in their 2013 campaign. For the next three years inclusive, absolutely everything that was happening with the Habs was all about protecting Desharnais and making everything about his needs.

Some said that Desharnais was a "stopgap". He'd be there for two years until Galchenyuk was ready to be number 1 centre. However, he was kept for the entire length of his contract. Many worried that Therrien would prioritize Desharnais' needs over Galchenyuk's development -- we were dismissed as crazy conspiracy theorists. They said that it was obvious that the team would shift Galchenyuk to centre, as this was what the Habs needed.

After 2014, Habs fans said that it was ok to lose Vanek, as they were gaining Galchenyuk, who had spent a lot of time injured. Price would have additional seasons like he did in 2014, and the Habs would compete for Cups. However, that did not work out. Galchenyuk never improved beyond his 2013-level performance. Among other issues, he did not have on-ice chemistry with David Desharnais, so that opportunity for glory was not afforded to him.

Over time, we would hear more and more about AG27's problems. For example, he enjoys partying and traveling in Italy. Eventually, he'd get traded for Max Domi.

Seriously, any commentary on the history that I posted?
 

optimus2861

Registered User
Aug 29, 2005
5,044
531
Bedford NS
And then, 2014 happened. It started well, Therrien said that he had high hopes for Galchenyuk, and that he would no longer be as protected this year. The Habs brought in Briere which might have allowed them to trade Desharnais. However, Desharnais started the season with 1 point in 19 games, and so Therrien rewarded him by making him first line centre, and punishing Galchenyuk and Eller. The end consequence is that the Habs potential dynastic core never actually competed for the Cup, and Eller and Galchenyuk were both never as effective (with the Habs) as they were in their 2013 campaign. For the next three years inclusive, absolutely everything that was happening with the Habs was all about protecting Desharnais and making everything about his needs.
The truly revolting thing about the entire l'affair Desharnais, is that it was so g-d obvious while it was happening! Therrien bent that forward lineup over backwards, sidewards, any-way-wards, in order to keep Desharnais 'going' (as much as that midget could 'go', at any rate; usually slowly to the bench after an o-zone turnover :mad:), and completely screwed over both Eller & Galchenyuk in the process. Game after game. Season after season. All while defenders in this very forum continually made up excuses for lil' Davey's shortcomings, and pounded the table with Eller's & Chcuk's.

In the end, Therrien's love affair with his pet directly ran Eller out of town, possibly fatally screwed Galchenyuk's development, and sabotaged any chance that the Habs may have had to become something more than the glimpse we saw in the 2014 playoffs. And Desharnais is gone to boot, not that he was ever part of a contending roster to start with.

And our brilliant GM lapped up every word Therrien said, cause foxhole. And our clueless owner sat and counted his money and then let tweedledum and tweedledumber run Subban out of town to boot.

Sigh. :(

I at least got to see a Cup 25 years ago. I feel bad for the generation of fans who've grown up since then that will never get a sniff of one so long as Molson continues owning the team.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
The truly revolting thing about the entire l'affair Desharnais, is that it was so g-d obvious while it was happening! Therrien bent that forward lineup over backwards, sidewards, any-way-wards, in order to keep Desharnais 'going' (as much as that midget could 'go', at any rate; usually slowly to the bench after an o-zone turnover :mad:), and completely screwed over both Eller & Galchenyuk in the process. Game after game. Season after season. All while defenders in this very forum continually made up excuses for lil' Davey's shortcomings, and pounded the table with Eller's & Chcuk's.

In the end, Therrien's love affair with his pet directly ran Eller out of town, possibly fatally screwed Galchenyuk's development, and sabotaged any chance that the Habs may have had to become something more than the glimpse we saw in the 2014 playoffs. And Desharnais is gone to boot, not that he was ever part of a contending roster to start with.

And our brilliant GM lapped up every word Therrien said, cause foxhole. And our clueless owner sat and counted his money and then let tweedledum and tweedledumber run Subban out of town to boot.

Sigh. :(

I at least got to see a Cup 25 years ago. I feel bad for the generation of fans who've grown up since then that will never get a sniff of one so long as Molson continues owning the team.

I brag about the things that I was right about, so I should acknowledge what I was wrong about:
I thought that Eller's development was permanently ruined. I am amazed that he's been able to recover. He got 38 points in Washington from the third line, and now has had two great playoffs with them, 23 points in 37 games I think, really impressive. Eller must have tremendous character to have overcome that level of adversity.

With a good coach, Galchenyuk and Eller would have been the Habs top two centres, and Desharnais would have been converted to middle-six wing. Add in Radulov, Petry, and Terrevainen, and the Habs would have competed for cups.
 

Brainiac

Registered Offender
Feb 17, 2013
12,709
610
Montreal
Seriously, any commentary on the history that I posted?

Nope!

Just kidding. The only thing I don't get is why the whole of Montreal's sports scene goes really hard after any player that gets traded. Like, when the guy is here, we don't hear much, or it's only rumours. When he's gone, all we hear is 'of course, we knew the guy was a pile of hot garbage'.

They did it for Subban and now they're doing it for Galchenyuk.
 

Leon Lucius Black

Registered User
Nov 5, 2007
15,741
5,251
Serious question, why does NHL.com have Galchenyuk listed as a C if Bergevin keeps saying he's not a C and he's never played a full season as C?

NHL.com has Marner, Giroux, Marchessault, Eberle, etc as centres, they don't regularly update positions.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,782
20,934
Nope!

Just kidding. The only thing I don't get is why the whole of Montreal's sports scene goes really hard after any player that gets traded. Like, when the guy is here, we don't hear much, or it's only rumours. When he's gone, all we hear is 'of course, we knew the guy was a pile of hot garbage'.

They did it for Subban and now they're doing it for Galchenyuk.

I think that the Montreal sports scene is somewhat inbred. It's literally just the Habs. They'd really benefit from either the Expos coming back, the Impact becoming legit, or Quebec City getting a team.
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
Nope!

Just kidding. The only thing I don't get is why the whole of Montreal's sports scene goes really hard after any player that gets traded. Like, when the guy is here, we don't hear much, or it's only rumours. When he's gone, all we hear is 'of course, we knew the guy was a pile of hot garbage'.

They did it for Subban and now they're doing it for Galchenyuk.
You'd have to have been deaf/blind to know know about the rumors involving Galchenyuk while in Montreal....what has come out since he was trade, was always known.
 
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Brainiac

Registered Offender
Feb 17, 2013
12,709
610
Montreal
You'd have to have been deaf/blind to know know about the rumors involving Galchenyuk while in Montreal....what has come out since he was trade, was always known.

First and foremost, I'd like to see some proof. Because right now, all we hear is 'of course we knew guy was doing some serious drugs'. I'd like to hear something more substantial.

Secondly, my point was more about the whole dynamic of the thing. When the player is here, we don't hear much. It's only rumours etc. When he gets traded for subpar return, the previous allegations suddenly become solid proof.
 

danyhabsfan

Registered User
Feb 12, 2007
8,222
3,032
Montreal
I've tried to make a correlation between ice time and his production. I've seen comments that suggest that he produced more when he had more icetime.

DateÉquipeBAPTS+/-PUNBANPANBINPINBGBPTTGPrésences
déc. 7vs CGY000-10000000309:1812
oct. 30à OTT10110000000110:4316
oct. 28vs NYR10100110000110:4717
oct. 14vs TOR101-10110000212:1616
déc. 22à CGY01110000000312:1817less than 13 minutes
déc. 23à EDM000-10000000012:19206 pts in 9 games
déc. 19à VAN10100000010412:3513
oct. 24vs FLA10100110000312:3617
nov. 29vs OTT000-10000000412:3717
oct. 17à SJS000-10000000213:2317
nov. 2à MIN000-20000000013:3817
nov. 27vs CBJ011-10010000313:4318
déc. 9vs EDM101-20110000313:5318
déc. 5vs STL00000000000213:5619
oct. 8à NYR00000000000214:1716
déc. 16à OTT000-20000000014:2419
févr. 8à PHI011-30010000214:301613 to 15 minutes
31-marsà PIT01102010000114:35185 pts in 16 games
févr. 1à CAR000-10000000314:3718
févr. 17à VGK01110000000114:4418
févr. 20à PHI00000000000214:4520
oct. 10vs CHI00000000000214:4717
nov. 7vs VGK000-20000000214:5019
06-marsà NJD00000000000214:5320
17-marsà TOR00002000000614:5521
oct. 18à LAK00004000000115:1220
févr. 28vs NYI01100010000015:1716
déc. 2vs DET04430010000315:2418
nov. 30à DET10100000010415:2821
nov. 9vs MIN000-10000000815:3419
janv. 20vs BOS000-10000000115:4320
déc. 27à CAR10104000000315:4521
déc. 30à FLA00000000000515:5418
oct. 26vs LAK00000000000315:541915 to 17 minutes
févr. 22vs NYR00000000000316:021818 pts in 21 games
nov. 14vs CBJ01100000000216:1120
nov. 22à NSH00010000000516:1422
nov. 5à CHI01110000000316:1520
nov. 11vs BUF00002000000216:1921
13-marsvs DAL02212010000016:2120
nov. 25vs BUF11210010000216:2120
janv. 23vs COL11210110000316:3319
févr. 15à ARI01100010000116:3319
nov. 18vs TOR000-20000000216:4320
févr. 3vs ANA02210010000116:4919
12-marsà CBJ000-30000000316:5920
déc. 14vs NJD011-10000000317:0320
janv. 30à STL000-10000000317:0517
janv. 19à WSH00000000000217:0617
02-marsà NYI31430000000517:0718
avr. 1vs NJD000-10000000317:1319
avr. 5à DET00010000000017:1421
janv. 2vs SJS01100010000217:162117 to 18 minutes
févr. 26vs PHI00000000000317:182111 pts in 14 games
déc. 28à TBL000-12000000517:2119
10-marsà TBL10100000000417:2522
26-marsvs DET11200120000317:3520
23-marsà BUF01110000000117:3721
févr. 14à COL000-10000000517:5316
24-marsvs WSH101-10000000317:5621
oct. 20à ANA000-12000000118:0323
oct. 5à BUF00000000000218:0917
janv. 7vs VAN101-10110000318:1120
oct. 7à WSH000-10000000218:1119
janv. 17à BOS000-10000000218:1320
nov. 21à DAL000-20000000018:1523
03-marsà BOS00000000000318:1821
15-marsvs PIT02200010000218:2224
08-marsà FLA000-30000000418:262118 to 20 minutes
janv. 13vs BOS10100110000218:32218 pts in 19 games
avr. 7à TOR000-10000000318:3521
nov. 4à WPG01100010000518:4321
21-marsà PIT00000000000218:4622
janv. 15vs NYI022-30010000518:5621
févr. 10vs NSH00010000000419:0020
févr. 24vs TBL00000000000119:1320
janv. 25vs CAR000-30000000119:2022
19-marsvs FLA00000000000419:3024
févr. 4vs OTT01100010000219:4620
nov. 16vs ARI01100000000520:0223
janv. 4vs TBL000-12000000320:122420 + minutes
avr. 3vs WPG112-10110000620:30233 pts in 3 games
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It seems he's at his best when he plays between 15 and 18 minutes. (29 pts in 35 games - 68 pts pace) He's also a PPG with 20+ minutes icetime but the sample is too small.

I don't see a correlation between his production and his icetime. The only thing I can conclude is that he needs to play over 15 minutes...
 

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
51,255
27,464
Ottawa
First and foremost, I'd like to see some proof. Because right now, all we hear is 'of course we knew guy was doing some serious drugs'. I'd like to hear something more substantial.

Secondly, my point was more about the whole dynamic of the thing. When the player is here, we don't hear much. It's only rumours etc. When he gets traded for subpar return, the previous allegations suddenly become solid proof.
I'm hearing/reading the same allegations about him today, that I heard/read months ago...nothing has changed
 
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gillyguzzler

Registered User
Jan 21, 2007
2,966
701
Ontario
Take a guess...

My dad forced himself on the coaching staff of my Don Mills AAA team and had numerous altercations with parents and coaches. Who am I? Character guy Max Domi.

I refused to play for the OHL team that drafted me and demanded a trade even before I played one second for the team that drafted me. Who am I? Character guy Max Domi.

I demanded a trade during my third season in the NHL because I didn't like the way I was being used. Who am I? Character guy Max Domi.

Bad character guy Alex Galchenyuk reported to the OHL that drafted him (not the London Knights) and never openly demanded a trade even when playing wing on the fourth line and being openly criticized in the media by Therrien and Julien.

Not saying it's a terrible trade but I'm sick of the Montreal media (at the behest of MB I'm sure) throwing stones at Chucky and glorifying Domi and not bringing up any character flaws.
 

KevSkillz4

Registered User
Apr 11, 2016
6,831
10,979
I like both player. Max Domi is gonna be a better player in a market like MTL. 18 goals, 52 points first season. He got a potential to be a 20-25 goal scorer with 35-45 assists. He have better hockey sens and playmaking ability than Galchenyuk.

This trade is good for both teams.

Domi like play with pressure and Galchenyuk like play with underpressure.
 
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