Spearmint Rhino
Registered User
- Sep 17, 2013
- 8,852
- 8,488
But that shocks nobody unless we win the tradeIt scares the crap out of me, all I can think is bye, bye, 3OA.
But that shocks nobody unless we win the tradeIt scares the crap out of me, all I can think is bye, bye, 3OA.
It's about time you realize how condescending and insulting Bergevin. It's been obvious for years, starting with his Playstation comment. As if anybody that is demanding more from him and expect improvements just live in a completely fantasy reality.
Trading for good players is very difficult, and top centers are never available...last one was Joe Thornton in Boston he said...And if you only knew what happened with the Scott trade, you'd understand it...Oh, his job is oh-so difficult...Now you can add that if you don't like this trade then you just don't know Domi...blablabla
The guy is full of crap. It's been obvious for a long time. Better late than never, glad you are finally seeing passed his BS.
I cannot speak to the other conversations you've had here. I can point to the ones we've had, and I never exaggerated a thing. I argued with you over how terrible Bergevin was. You simply were not ready to admit it and wanted to give him more time.If you really paid attention, my defense of Bergevin in previous years was against exaggeration time after time. I always did point out some of the negative moves he has made or has not made. Now fast forward to today... my measure is still year to year and he is clearly not learning. He is tinkering with things he should not and he is stubborn to change or unable to. I now want him gone but I still don't hate the person. I just don't trust him anymore cause his ability to adapt is just not there. He is unable to evaluate top end skill cause he never had skill as a player.
I cannot speak to the other conversations you've had here. I can point to the ones we've had, and I never exaggerated a thing. I argued with you over how terrible Bergevin was. You simply were not ready to admit it and wanted to give him more time.
We were pretty much all wrong about him, I mean, he was my pick to become GM, so this isn't a "I told you so" comment. It's a "glad you are finally seeing things clearly now" one.
The Bergevin doctrine.Always get the less gifted player.
I will discuss some of my recollections of Galchenyuk's development, guys let me know if this is accurate and reasonable.
Galchenyuk was drafted third overall and most people were happy. A few wanted Grigorenko or Forsberg, but it was widely understood that he was the third best player in the draft after Yakupov and Murray. The Habs finally had their big number 1 centre after two decades of waiting. People pointed out that his shoulders were wide, and thus his long term strength potential was high. At the time of the draft, fans debated Galchenyuk's potential, some said he would be like Jonathan Toews, others said that he was more like Marian Hossa.
He went back to junior, to make up for a lost year and due to the lockout. He started slow but improved with the London Knights. Eventually he was hitting 2.0 points per game. The only worrying thing was that he wasn't dominating enough, in particular his production was much lower against good CHL teams. I and several others did not want him to make the NHL, we wanted him to compete for the memorial cup, plus that would help the Habs tank. We wanted him to keep dominating in juniors, but Bergevin and Therrien were morons and decided to bump him up.
Galchenyuk nevertheless had a phenomenal rookie campaign, 27 points in 48 games, similar to what guys like Tavares, Stamkos, and Toews got in their first year. Galchenyuk mostly played with a combination of Prust, Gallagher, and Eller which made the achievement even more impressive. I remember one time it was pointed out that Gallagher might get injured if he got to the front of the net, and Brandon Prust intervened. He told Gallagher to play his game, and he would protect him. Those guys were great, and it was great to watch. Eller also emerged that year as a top-six threat. The future was great, it was bright.
And then, 2014 happened. It started well, Therrien said that he had high hopes for Galchenyuk, and that he would no longer be as protected this year. The Habs brought in Briere which might have allowed them to trade Desharnais. However, Desharnais started the season with 1 point in 19 games, and so Therrien rewarded him by making him first line centre, and punishing Galchenyuk and Eller. The end consequence is that the Habs potential dynastic core never actually competed for the Cup, and Eller and Galchenyuk were both never as effective (with the Habs) as they were in their 2013 campaign. For the next three years inclusive, absolutely everything that was happening with the Habs was all about protecting Desharnais and making everything about his needs.
Some said that Desharnais was a "stopgap". He'd be there for two years until Galchenyuk was ready to be number 1 centre. However, he was kept for the entire length of his contract. Many worried that Therrien would prioritize Desharnais' needs over Galchenyuk's development -- we were dismissed as crazy conspiracy theorists. They said that it was obvious that the team would shift Galchenyuk to centre, as this was what the Habs needed.
After 2014, Habs fans said that it was ok to lose Vanek, as they were gaining Galchenyuk, who had spent a lot of time injured. Price would have additional seasons like he did in 2014, and the Habs would compete for Cups. However, that did not work out. Galchenyuk never improved beyond his 2013-level performance. Among other issues, he did not have on-ice chemistry with David Desharnais, so that opportunity for glory was not afforded to him.
Over time, we would hear more and more about AG27's problems. For example, he enjoys partying and traveling in Italy. Eventually, he'd get traded for Max Domi.
The truly revolting thing about the entire l'affair Desharnais, is that it was so g-d obvious while it was happening! Therrien bent that forward lineup over backwards, sidewards, any-way-wards, in order to keep Desharnais 'going' (as much as that midget could 'go', at any rate; usually slowly to the bench after an o-zone turnover ), and completely screwed over both Eller & Galchenyuk in the process. Game after game. Season after season. All while defenders in this very forum continually made up excuses for lil' Davey's shortcomings, and pounded the table with Eller's & Chcuk's.And then, 2014 happened. It started well, Therrien said that he had high hopes for Galchenyuk, and that he would no longer be as protected this year. The Habs brought in Briere which might have allowed them to trade Desharnais. However, Desharnais started the season with 1 point in 19 games, and so Therrien rewarded him by making him first line centre, and punishing Galchenyuk and Eller. The end consequence is that the Habs potential dynastic core never actually competed for the Cup, and Eller and Galchenyuk were both never as effective (with the Habs) as they were in their 2013 campaign. For the next three years inclusive, absolutely everything that was happening with the Habs was all about protecting Desharnais and making everything about his needs.
The truly revolting thing about the entire l'affair Desharnais, is that it was so g-d obvious while it was happening! Therrien bent that forward lineup over backwards, sidewards, any-way-wards, in order to keep Desharnais 'going' (as much as that midget could 'go', at any rate; usually slowly to the bench after an o-zone turnover ), and completely screwed over both Eller & Galchenyuk in the process. Game after game. Season after season. All while defenders in this very forum continually made up excuses for lil' Davey's shortcomings, and pounded the table with Eller's & Chcuk's.
In the end, Therrien's love affair with his pet directly ran Eller out of town, possibly fatally screwed Galchenyuk's development, and sabotaged any chance that the Habs may have had to become something more than the glimpse we saw in the 2014 playoffs. And Desharnais is gone to boot, not that he was ever part of a contending roster to start with.
And our brilliant GM lapped up every word Therrien said, cause foxhole. And our clueless owner sat and counted his money and then let tweedledum and tweedledumber run Subban out of town to boot.
Sigh.
I at least got to see a Cup 25 years ago. I feel bad for the generation of fans who've grown up since then that will never get a sniff of one so long as Molson continues owning the team.
Seriously, any commentary on the history that I posted?
Serious question, why does NHL.com have Galchenyuk listed as a C if Bergevin keeps saying he's not a C and he's never played a full season as C?
Nope!
Just kidding. The only thing I don't get is why the whole of Montreal's sports scene goes really hard after any player that gets traded. Like, when the guy is here, we don't hear much, or it's only rumours. When he's gone, all we hear is 'of course, we knew the guy was a pile of hot garbage'.
They did it for Subban and now they're doing it for Galchenyuk.
You'd have to have been deaf/blind to know know about the rumors involving Galchenyuk while in Montreal....what has come out since he was trade, was always known.Nope!
Just kidding. The only thing I don't get is why the whole of Montreal's sports scene goes really hard after any player that gets traded. Like, when the guy is here, we don't hear much, or it's only rumours. When he's gone, all we hear is 'of course, we knew the guy was a pile of hot garbage'.
They did it for Subban and now they're doing it for Galchenyuk.
Deslauriers scored as many even strength goals (in 24 less games) as the sniper we traded away.I hope he does well but if Nicholas D'Lo outscores him next year I'm gonna freak.
Deslauriers scored as many even strength goals (in 24 less games) as the sniper we traded away.
You shouldn't overanalyze flukes.
Every so often, a guy like Deslauriers, Desharnais, or Weise overachieves. It's a one-time anomaly and should not be counted on for repetition.
You'd have to have been deaf/blind to know know about the rumors involving Galchenyuk while in Montreal....what has come out since he was trade, was always known.
Date | Équipe | B | A | PTS | +/- | PUN | BAN | PAN | BIN | PIN | BG | BP | T | TG | Présences | ||
déc. 7 | vs CGY | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 09:18 | 12 | ||
oct. 30 | à OTT | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 10:43 | 16 | ||
oct. 28 | vs NYR | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 10:47 | 17 | ||
oct. 14 | vs TOR | 1 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 12:16 | 16 | ||
déc. 22 | à CGY | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 12:18 | 17 | less than 13 minutes | |
déc. 23 | à EDM | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 12:19 | 20 | 6 pts in 9 games | |
déc. 19 | à VAN | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 12:35 | 13 | ||
oct. 24 | vs FLA | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 12:36 | 17 | ||
nov. 29 | vs OTT | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 12:37 | 17 | ||
oct. 17 | à SJS | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 13:23 | 17 | ||
nov. 2 | à MIN | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 13:38 | 17 | ||
nov. 27 | vs CBJ | 0 | 1 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 13:43 | 18 | ||
déc. 9 | vs EDM | 1 | 0 | 1 | -2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 13:53 | 18 | ||
déc. 5 | vs STL | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 13:56 | 19 | ||
oct. 8 | à NYR | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:17 | 16 | ||
déc. 16 | à OTT | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14:24 | 19 | ||
févr. 8 | à PHI | 0 | 1 | 1 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:30 | 16 | 13 to 15 minutes | |
31-mars | à PIT | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 14:35 | 18 | 5 pts in 16 games | |
févr. 1 | à CAR | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 14:37 | 18 | ||
févr. 17 | à VGK | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 14:44 | 18 | ||
févr. 20 | à PHI | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:45 | 20 | ||
oct. 10 | vs CHI | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:47 | 17 | ||
nov. 7 | vs VGK | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:50 | 19 | ||
06-mars | à NJD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14:53 | 20 | ||
17-mars | à TOR | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 14:55 | 21 | ||
oct. 18 | à LAK | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 15:12 | 20 | ||
févr. 28 | vs NYI | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 15:17 | 16 | ||
déc. 2 | vs DET | 0 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15:24 | 18 | ||
nov. 30 | à DET | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 15:28 | 21 | ||
nov. 9 | vs MIN | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | 15:34 | 19 | ||
janv. 20 | vs BOS | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 15:43 | 20 | ||
déc. 27 | à CAR | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15:45 | 21 | ||
déc. 30 | à FLA | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 15:54 | 18 | ||
oct. 26 | vs LAK | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 15:54 | 19 | 15 to 17 minutes | |
févr. 22 | vs NYR | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 16:02 | 18 | 18 pts in 21 games | |
nov. 14 | vs CBJ | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16:11 | 20 | ||
nov. 22 | à NSH | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 16:14 | 22 | ||
nov. 5 | à CHI | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 16:15 | 20 | ||
nov. 11 | vs BUF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16:19 | 21 | ||
13-mars | vs DAL | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 16:21 | 20 | ||
nov. 25 | vs BUF | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16:21 | 20 | ||
janv. 23 | vs COL | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 16:33 | 19 | ||
févr. 15 | à ARI | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 16:33 | 19 | ||
nov. 18 | vs TOR | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16:43 | 20 | ||
févr. 3 | vs ANA | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 16:49 | 19 | ||
12-mars | à CBJ | 0 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 16:59 | 20 | ||
déc. 14 | vs NJD | 0 | 1 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:03 | 20 | ||
janv. 30 | à STL | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:05 | 17 | ||
janv. 19 | à WSH | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 17:06 | 17 | ||
02-mars | à NYI | 3 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 17:07 | 18 | ||
avr. 1 | vs NJD | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:13 | 19 | ||
avr. 5 | à DET | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17:14 | 21 | ||
janv. 2 | vs SJS | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 17:16 | 21 | 17 to 18 minutes | |
févr. 26 | vs PHI | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:18 | 21 | 11 pts in 14 games | |
déc. 28 | à TBL | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 17:21 | 19 | ||
10-mars | à TBL | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 17:25 | 22 | ||
26-mars | vs DET | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:35 | 20 | ||
23-mars | à BUF | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 17:37 | 21 | ||
févr. 14 | à COL | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 17:53 | 16 | ||
24-mars | vs WSH | 1 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 17:56 | 21 | ||
oct. 20 | à ANA | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 18:03 | 23 | ||
oct. 5 | à BUF | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:09 | 17 | ||
janv. 7 | vs VAN | 1 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 18:11 | 20 | ||
oct. 7 | à WSH | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:11 | 19 | ||
janv. 17 | à BOS | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:13 | 20 | ||
nov. 21 | à DAL | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 18:15 | 23 | ||
03-mars | à BOS | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 18:18 | 21 | ||
15-mars | vs PIT | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:22 | 24 | ||
08-mars | à FLA | 0 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 18:26 | 21 | 18 to 20 minutes | |
janv. 13 | vs BOS | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:32 | 21 | 8 pts in 19 games | |
avr. 7 | à TOR | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 18:35 | 21 | ||
nov. 4 | à WPG | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 18:43 | 21 | ||
21-mars | à PIT | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 18:46 | 22 | ||
janv. 15 | vs NYI | 0 | 2 | 2 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 18:56 | 21 | ||
févr. 10 | vs NSH | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 19:00 | 20 | ||
févr. 24 | vs TBL | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 19:13 | 20 | ||
janv. 25 | vs CAR | 0 | 0 | 0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 19:20 | 22 | ||
19-mars | vs FLA | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 19:30 | 24 | ||
févr. 4 | vs OTT | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 19:46 | 20 | ||
nov. 16 | vs ARI | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 20:02 | 23 | ||
janv. 4 | vs TBL | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 20:12 | 24 | 20 + minutes | |
avr. 3 | vs WPG | 1 | 1 | 2 | -1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 20:30 | 23 | 3 pts in 3 games |
I'm hearing/reading the same allegations about him today, that I heard/read months ago...nothing has changedFirst and foremost, I'd like to see some proof. Because right now, all we hear is 'of course we knew guy was doing some serious drugs'. I'd like to hear something more substantial.
Secondly, my point was more about the whole dynamic of the thing. When the player is here, we don't hear much. It's only rumours etc. When he gets traded for subpar return, the previous allegations suddenly become solid proof.
Ottawa got hosed lolWell at least the Hoffman trade makes this one look pretty decent right now.
Seriously, any commentary on the history that I posted?