Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by lhsgolf19, Feb 19, 2018.
His numbers looked somewhat better in Detroit, Then it does in Philly.
They didn't develop well? He didn't progress because he didn't put the work in. What Mrazek does after this point is 100% inconsequential. Guys bust on one team and catch fire on another all the time. Mrazek sucks at things that should be second nature for a goalie and can hide these by being super athletic. It's why people think he's a good goalie even though he's a ****show at positioning and decision making.
90% of the time, if the goalie is making a huge save... it's because he ****ed up earlier. If Mrazek goes on to be a very good goaltender, it's because that he's gotten some sense knocked into him by a guy. It's that he's matured enough to realize he needs help. He was not going to do that in Detroit in the time frame that we would have him for.
You are wrong again.
All this technical stuff you talk about is not important as this stage.
All what matters now is mental, it is confidence.
Some goalies are not technically good, but if their find their game, they could be good.
Come on Petr 2 more wins, We know he'll be us on March 20th so will only need 1 other win in 15 or so games left.
I don't think Peter or Jimmy had clearly won the role of starter, before the trade. I just assume that Petr's expiring contract was more attractive for the Flyers.
Simultaneously, I think even if Petr was still here, it's high time for Detroit to get serious about trying to draft and develop a new starting goalie. I was a little shocked to see a team with four picks in the third round, who already knew they were exposing a goalie to the expansion draft, wait until their fourth pick of that round to draft a goalie. Petruzzeli might be a lucky pick, but he was the eighth goalie selected in the draft last summer. When you have four third round picks to burn but you wait until the very last one, it says to me that you don't see the situation as all that important. I think they have to keep drafting goalies until they know they've got their next guy.
Goalie is a weird position. A really weird position. Unless you're drafting 1st round or top of the draft... I don't see it waiting to take one as not being serious about improving it. It's the same as drafting a fantasy football team. Most starter level quarterbacks will outperform running backs at the end of the day. Most kickers will outperform a lot of guys too. However, there is far less difference between a great goalie and a bad goalie than there is between a great forward/defenseman and a bad forward/defenseman.
If you think a guy in a saturated position is a unicorn and will be so good that he will outperform everyone then you take him. If not, you wait and take the good player at the more scarce position and follow up with a good player in goal as well.
If his play suddenly changes and he becomes a top tier goaltender, you don't think that would raise red flags with how we developed him and the environment that possibly kept him from reaching his potential?
Maybe he has a change of heart and motivation to get better once he signs for a new team during the off-season, assuming that happens. Do you think management has no impact on the motivations of a player?
The trade was fine to me because I don't see anything in Mrazek that says he will improve, but it speaks to the problems with the organization where we have a lot of mediocre assets and have to get rid of them to try and get some value.
I mean, yes and no.
I see what you're saying... but maybe a kick to the curb of a sorts is something that spurs him on. However, he never could/would have gotten that kind of push if they didn't move on. Like the parents that finally cut off their entitled, spoiled kid and they have to stand on their own two feet.
Like Dan Cleary never would have come to Detroit to be the 3rd line plugger and a big part of a title if Chicago didn't toss him aside.
I apologized after this... but what the hell is this "If you can understand hockey" nonsense.
Petr Mrazek is a weak goaltender who does not put up consistent results because his technical grasp on the position is not what it should be. He doesn't play well positionally, he overcommits to shooters and has a propensity to go for the pokecheck to completely break up a play instead of letting his butterfly do the work to just boringly choke out shots from in close.
Like my last post said, "Finding your game" is refining your technique to minimize your mistakes. You will not stop every shot that comes your way. It won't happen. You do things that have the highest possibility of you making the save. Watch Carey Price. He's ridiculously calm in his movements in net. Watch Ben Bishop, he boringly sets into his butterfly and since he's 6'6" or something, he takes away the entire bottom half of the net.
Guys find their game when they go looking for it. If Petr Mrazek all of a sudden becomes a consistently good player, it's not because he is suddenly confident where he wasn't before. It would signal that he's finally taking positional coaching seriously and is improving in that aspect.
A slump from a lack of confidence doesn't generally last two years. Nor are the problems from it so obviously repeatable in nature. Mrazek was giving up the same goals from the same positions on the ice and doing the exact same thing. If it were a confidence issue, he'd be trying all kinds of different things and you'd see him tinkering heavily with his technique and, maybe to his detriment, sitting further back in the net or laying off on a shot.
The one thing Mrazek is known for is his cockiness and confidence so I don't really buy into that argument for him. Other goalies, sure, I'll agree to an extent. But at the same token, you can't say Coreau is going to take Howard's starting spot if he finds his confidence amd do it with a straight face.
for once it would be nice for you to explain your posts when other people respond to them rather than deflecting and insulting the poster. obviously tsweeney went too far with his post but other people have responded to your posts in the past (including me) and have received nothing but condescending and insulting replies back from you
Ugh, the personal stuff has probably went too far and I certainly shouldn't have added to it but I think it's time for everyone to bury the hatchet a bit. Take it to IMs and sort it out civilly or report future posts for us mods to look at. This season has put a lot of us on edge a bit, but we're all fans of the same team and we just need to remember that not all of us come from the same background/state/whatever. And, in the end, sometimes it's best to just not invest your time in replying to something that you think is just garbage. No one wins the war of the internets, and if you've voiced your argument and history proves you right is there really anything else you need?
Now lets go get ourselves another Swedish defensive savior.
Maybe not confidence, but it can certainly be mental. Mrazek has always seemed cocky, but he's also seemed flaky. Overcoming that is definitely on him, though. I agree with Ari to a certain extent on this. At this point, I'm not sure how much the actual games of any of these guys is going to change. They could learn more dedication to their job and what not, but Mrazek was never going to be Carey Price where he consistently gets into the right spot and is "text book" in how he plays the position. He's always going to be sorta spazzy and floppy. But when he's been on he's been a lot calmer and in control than he's been in a long while in Detroit. Maybe his game just fell apart because he couldn't keep it up, maybe something about the situation in Detroit was just too toxic for him, I don't know. In the end, he needs to find a way to be psychologically ready to go on a more consistent basis. Hope it happens at some point for the guy because he's a joy to watch when he's on.
My concern is if this becomes part of a pattern with the Wings and young players, but we're still waiting and seeing on that, I think.
Well Mrazek is doing his best to stay at 3 wins with Philly he has been ****.
Mrazek got lit up again tonight
Sadly, if he keeps playing this way, we wont even get a 3rd rounder for him...
Anyone watch the game, is Phi playing horribly... or is Petr losing them games?
I don't think Mrazek was to blame for any of the goals. Pitt just had a lot of bounces go their way tonight. If they stick with him for a little longer he'll get the 5 wins. Kind of resigned to the real possibility that's the best we can expect at this point. However, if the back up plays tomorrow against Boston and does well, Petr could end up being the back up again.
Mrazek isnt gonna get 2 more wins, is he?
Why do we have this bad luck at drafting good goalies? Other than Osgood and Sawchuk what goaltender really stands out as good to elite that we've drafted?
Logically, they should keep playing him till the end of the season to see what they've got, otherwise they're basically throwing away a pick. But if he keeps losing, they might decide to cut their losses to just that 4th rounder and ride the 3rd string goalie till one of their starters is healthy. Assuming Lyon starts tomorrow, Mrazek will probably get two more starts to end this brutal 5-game stretch.
Osgood was never an elite goalie.
A good goalie on a great team yes. An elite goalie, never, ever, ever, ever!
NHL.com - Players
From this entire list as a goalie;
Howard, Osgood, Mrazek, Chevaldae are the best goalies drafted by the team in that order.
I'm not going to go full debate and derail this thread, but we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree about who is better between Howard and Osgood.
Ozzie has much bigger moments and more of a legacy., but he also played on FAR superior teams. I've never seen Howard pull an 09 Ozzie where he was dominant in a playoff run.
Howard almost unanimously has better goaltending statistics. Differences in the league and such.
If you did want to have the debate, I think it would actually be an interesting one.
Howard almost unanimously has better regular season statistics. But yes, I agree it would be an interesting debate overall, with good points to be made on both sides.