Move any of modern top defensemen back to 70s

[Howie Hodge]

I never understood the perspective that because of modern training and nutrition, you could somehow magically have Bobby Orr's natural skating ability.Forget it.Even if you're a very strong skater, and training makes you a bit better, it still doesn't make you Bobby Orr.

Natural talent is by far the most important thing in skating (like slapshot power and stickhandling).It's about how your body is structured, the natural mechanics of your body and probably some unexplainable way your brain works and connects to this.

There is no skater of Orr's caliber in the league today IMO.

Take slapshot power as an example.The strongest person will not necessarily have the hardest shot.You can eat well, train your technic and increase your power quite a bit, but it all boils down to how your body is made and structured so that the weight transfer is very natural and powerful.Same with boxers who have knock out power on both hands.

If you have bad feet your weight transfer will be weakened, if your legs are slightly crooked it might ruin the fluidity of the weight transfer, if your body is X or Y it might ruin the movement and so on and so on.You can train to compensate, but it's still a compensation, not as efficient as the real thing.

Agreed. If you could of let Orr train in today's world, and he had acces to today's modern medicine/surgeries, he would have been that much more complete. Healthier, played longer,....

Scary thought what he'd have done beyond the amazing he did do...

 

[Bluesguru]

Could they be as good as Orr with their modern skill and play?

In my opinion ---- No

 

[The Panther]

Everything is in its own time.

All other considerations are purposeless.

 

[Eisen]

So you don't think much quicker decision-making process would give the modern player great advantage? And -- why would they be benched?

Because they played a completely different system. And hockey was always a quick sport, I doubt that their reaction times are a lot different then and now.

 

[Eisen]

Virtually all reflex plays and decision making strategies have been removed from today's game. Hardly any reflex goalies other than M.A.Fleury somewhat. Decision-making? Hardly any read and react strategies on ice.

To me most apparent when watching goalies.

 

[puckpilot]

I'd like to refer people to this recent thread with a link showing a modern NHL player trying his hand at using 80's gear. It's not pretty.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/oel-tries-on-80s-equipment.2489047/

 

[The Panther]

Because they played a completely different system. And hockey was always a quick sport, I doubt that there reaction times are a lot different then and now.

You mean homo sapien hasn't evolved from a genetically inferior state since１９７０？ Clearly you're not spending enough time on the main board.

 

[Eisen]

I'd like to refer people to this recent thread with a link showing a modern NHL player trying his hand at using 80's gear. It's not pretty.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/oel-tries-on-80s-equipment.2489047/

I remember there was a clip some time ago that showed 2 current players with even older equipment, from the 50s or 60s. The amount of ankle bending was not pretty.

 

[Killion]

I remember there was a clip some time ago that showed 2 current players with even older equipment, from the 50s or 60s. The amount of ankle bending was not pretty.

.... oh yeah, though in their defense had they been brought up playing with the old tube skates & learned, adapted, developed their muscles, skill's & techniques... I mean really, CCM, Bauer, Daoust, higher end private label brands like Etonia etc... these were all great skates BUT.... with the advances in technology, kinetics, chassis blade systems etc etc, accelerates the learning curves, abilities & performance, easier. Ski industry as well with the introduction of fiberglass & other materials, introduction of parabolic ski's in the early 90's. Lange with the fully molded plastic boot. Extreme example when comparing ski, binding & boot technology to skates just not as obvious superficially to quite those extremes. Completely re-engineered. I can recall when playing as a forward in a beer league buying new skates, several years after tube skates gone the way of the Dodo, and practically had to learn how to skate all over again and ya, I always prided myself as being a great skater. But that new technology.... real learning curve

 

[Eisen]

.... oh yeah, though in their defense had they been brought up playing with the old tube skates & learned, adapted, developed their muscles, skill's & techniques... I mean really, CCM, Bauer, Daoust, higher end private label brands like Etonia etc... these were all great skates BUT.... with the advances in technology, kinetics, chassis blade systems etc etc, accelerates the learning curves, abilities & performance, easier. Ski industry as well with the introduction of fiberglass & other materials, introduction of parabolic ski's in the early 90's. Lange with the fully molded plastic boot. Extreme example when comparing ski, binding & boot technology to skates just not as obvious superficially to quite those extremes. Completely re-engineered. I can recall when playing as a forward in a beer league buying new skates, several years after tube skates gone the way of the Dodo, and practically had to learn how to skate all over again and ya, I always prided myself as being a great skater. But that new technology.... real learning curve

Oh, I don't blame them, not one bit. It's all about what you are used to.
You can do in new skates what would not have been possible in the older ones, or, at the very least, only with great effort and training.
Here's a little 15 minute TED talk, not about hockey, but athletes in general, for anyone that's interested.

 

[Canadiens1958]

.... oh yeah, though in their defense had they been brought up playing with the old tube skates & learned, adapted, developed their muscles, skill's & techniques... I mean really, CCM, Bauer, Daoust, higher end private label brands like Etonia etc... these were all great skates BUT.... with the advances in technology, kinetics, chassis blade systems etc etc, accelerates the learning curves, abilities & performance, easier. Ski industry as well with the introduction of fiberglass & other materials, introduction of parabolic ski's in the early 90's. Lange with the fully molded plastic boot. Extreme example when comparing ski, binding & boot technology to skates just not as obvious superficially to quite those extremes. Completely re-engineered. I can recall when playing as a fornd Sergey aveward in a beer league buying new skates, several years after tube skates gone the way of the Dodo, and practically had to learn how to skate all over again and ya, I always prided myself as being a great skater. But that new technology.... real learning curve

Add advances in fitting,molding and reduced weight.

Conversely even in today's skates,players cannot execute Bobby Orr type moves or Doug Harvey or Serge Savard type spin moves.

 

[Killion]

Add advances in fitting,molding and reduced weight.

Yeah much quicker learning curve for kids at entry level on up. You just dont see the kind of ankle bending you did see back in the day as skates could be wildly inconsistent. You paid for what you got and if you didnt buy the top end of the range the boots support would breakdown fairly rapidly in some cases. All natural material, leather mainly, later on adding ballistic nylons & so on. CCM Tacks the skate of preference with their patented inset heel piece that kept the rear of the foot in a locked & upright position, then youd also wear a skate a 1/2 size or more smaller, even go bare foot for that more kinetic feel. As a Goalie however, I wore skates a size too big, cheated a bit, not to mention not wanting a tight fit with pucks impacting, ricochet off the inside cuff or whatever.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Yeah much quicker learning curve for kids at entry level on up. You just dont see the kind of ankle bending you did see back in the day as skates could be wildly inconsistent. You paid for what you got and if you didnt buy the top end of the range the boots support would breakdown fairly rapidly in some cases. All natural material, leather mainly, later on adding ballistic nylons & so on. CCM Tacks the skate of preference with their patented inset heel piece that kept the rear of the foot in a locked & upright position, then youd also wear a skate a 1/2 size or more smaller, even go bare foot for that more kinetic feel. As a Goalie however, I wore skates a size too big, cheated a bit, not to mention not wanting a tight fit with pucks impacting, ricochet off the inside cuff or whatever.

Also the parents today no longer buy skates that the youngster "will grow into".

 

[Killion]

Conversely even in today's skates,players cannot execute Bobby Orr type moves or Doug Harvey or Serge Savard type spin moves.

.... ya I see you added this & great point. You dont have all natural materials going into the boot on top of which youve got a different weight, balance & ride on the chassis introduced by Bauer in the 70's... then as the years went on, so called advancements, using more & more in the way of synthetics combined with highly specialized training techniques... well, you just dont have that same kind of flexibility, the skate custom fitted sure enough but not properly "broken in" organically.

I liken it to the difference between riding along in a wood boat compared to fiberglass. A wooden boat is entirely organic and rides with the water, in it, through it. You feel it, every wave. A fiberglass boat you ride on top of the water, you pound through the water & waves. Far less elegant, far less enjoyable an experience. No kinetic nor organic feel. The difference between a cold glass of freshly squeezed orange juice and a warm glass of powdered OJ like Tang or whatever. Same thing with hockey sticks, wood vs composite; gloves as well. Should be all leather requiring break in time. Key piece of equipment.....

Oh.... Body armor as well.... soft cap (I'm sure youve seen Harveys, Orr's & others shoulder pads, next to nothing) all natural materials with the exception of shin pads should be mandated by the CSA & so on. So safety & performance issue.... and ditch the Helmets..... As for kids buying size spot on skates rather than "growing into them"?.... Some still do I'm sure. Depends on Mom or Dads budget I suppose & or just how advanced a player might be at Atom or Pee Wee, Bantam. If the kids like AAA or AA, then sure, they might well be buying new skates every season. Some of these Rep teams, included in the Registration Fee's, new skates, gloves, helmets.... sometimes the entire kit & top of the line at that. Get it wholesale so some discount. Some of it fully sponsored if the kids good but economically depressed. Like a scholarship of sorts.

 

[Canadiens1958]

As for kids buying size spot on skates rather than "growing into them"?.... Some still do I'm sure. Depends on Mom or Dads budget I suppose & or just how advanced a player might be at Atom or Pee Wee, Bantam. If the kids like AAA or AA, then sure, they might well be buying new skates every season. Some of these Rep teams, included in the Registration Fee's, new skates, gloves, helmets.... sometimes the entire kit & top of the line at that. Get it wholesale so some discount. Some of it fully sponsored if the kids good but economically depressed. Like a scholarship of sorts.

Many of the "Learn to Skate" and Intro programs supply "Loaner" skates as parents are not willing to go to the expense of buying until they are sure that the youngster will continue. Get them to try approach where the trial is structured for success. Fitting the youngster properly, educating the parents, etc.

 

[Sentinel]

You mean homo sapien hasn't evolved from a genetically inferior state since１９７０？ Clearly you're not spending enough time on the main board.

This post should be in Wikipedia under "Perfect Strawman."

 

[Sentinel]

Because they played a completely different system. And hockey was always a quick sport, I doubt that their reaction times are a lot different then and now.

To me it's readily apparent that the game has become much quicker in 30 years and decision-making time has substantially decreased. Kinda like the decision-making time between NHL and KHL could not be more different.

 

[Big Phil]

These are never good questions because we now have to imagine Drew Doughty without a helmet, and I can't. Plus throw in 1970s equipment.

The best thing to do is ask yourself if you put the defensemen of today with the stars of the 1970s and all of them have the same advantages and disadvantages who is best?

To me it is still Orr. Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Weber, Pietrangelo, etc. do not surpass him. Potvin likely bests them all. Park would be similar to the best. Robinson at his best is at least as good as the best d-man at his best.

 

[Theokritos]

I remember there was a clip some time ago that showed 2 current players with even older equipment, from the 50s or 60s.

I remember that clip too, but I can't find it anymore and neither do I remember which players were in it. Can anybody help me out?

 

[Eisen]

I remember that clip too, but I can't find it anymore and neither do I remember which players were in it. Can anybody help me out?

I was looking for it too. It was on the main board, that's all I remember.

 

[Boxscore]

No.

This one is easy.

Karlsson is the closest but he wouldn't be Bobby.

 

[Big Phil]

On a side note, Andre De Grasse who is Canada's best hope for the 100m dash from here on in and perhaps the favourite all around now that Bolt has retired once wore Jesse Owens' shoes and ran on the same track he'd have run on in 1936 and only clocked at 11 seconds. Owens did it in 10.3.

I know this isn't always a popular opinion, but on average a man is weaker now than, say even 40 years ago. There were studies done on the grip strength of a man and the men of yesteryear (1970s) blew the modern man out of the water. Probably has to do with the fact that there are much less manual labour jobs today. So with that being kept in mind, I am going to say men in the 1930s probably overall were a bit stronger than the ones in the 1970s.

Now, I don't know how that applies to athletes either. Because they are more unusual. They train daily and the training is better than yesterday. But no modern hockey player today works in a factory either, where as Maurice Richard did in the 1940s and Phil Esposito claims he worked construction in the off season until he was 30. So you know............there's that angle.