Most underrated prospect?

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Rowsdower

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Leafaholix said:
Don't overrate them now!

O'Sullivan may be a good scorer in the NHL, but I doubt he'll ever be a "franchise" player.

As for Harding... he'll be a very good goalie, but I'm not sure he's got "franchise" potential. "Star potential", possibly... but "franchise potential", I doubt it.

I agree with this.....both should be very solid but IMHO don't have franchise potential....maybe O'Sullivan....
 
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Epsilon

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Mr.Sinister said:
Hands Down, Corey Locke, Look At The Skills And The Accolades That He Gets In Junior, And Practically Not A Peep When It Comes To Prospect Rankings.

This Guy Is Money, And Smart Of Montreal To Have A Wild Card Like This In Their Deck.

Corey Locke is just another junior scoring star whose game won't translate to the NHL. There have been plenty of others before him (Simon Gamache, Hnat Dominichelli, Marty Murray, Sergei Varlamov, Lonny Bonohos, etc.) and there will be plenty of others after him.
 

Kritty

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Mr.Sinister said:
Hands Down, Corey Locke, Look At The Skills And The Accolades That He Gets In Junior, And Practically Not A Peep When It Comes To Prospect Rankings.

This Guy Is Money, And Smart Of Montreal To Have A Wild Card Like This In Their Deck.

When will people realize that it's THE OHL, not the NHL. Who cares what he's done in junior. Ever heard of Bryan Fogarty, Jason Bonsignore, Cal McGowan, Dave Chyzowski, Scott Scissons, etc, etc. These guys were all HUGE scoring stars in junior but didn't have the game that equated to success at the NHL level. People should really have more to back up an argument of who is the most underrated prospect than "he was good in junior". Big deal. The reason why Locke is not talked about is because of his size and lack of speed. When you are that small you need to have something that can set you apart. Yes, Locke has some good offensive skills, but will he be able to do that at the next level? Personally I say no, but that's just my opinion. I see him as a career minor leaguer much like Jesse Schultz will be. Big junior scorers but that's it.
 

thestonedkoala

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FRANCHISE GOALTENDERS:
Kari Lehtonen
Marc- André Fleury

COULD BE:
Henrik Lundqvist (kind of underrated)
Ilja Bryzgalov
Hannu Toivonen

SUPERSTARS/STARS:
Michael Leighton
Pascal Leclaire
James Howard/Stefan Liv
Brian Finley
Brent Krahn
Peter Budaj/Phillipe Sauve
Jeff Deslauries
Josh Harding
Alex Auld
Jason Bascashiua/Tobias Stephens
David LeVenue
Ryan Miller
Yann Dannis
Ray Emery
Mikhail Tellqvist
Ari Ahonen
Antero Niittymaki
Andy Choido
Cam Ward
Maxime Daigneault/Maxime Ouellett/Rostislav Stana

Does that look right?
 

leafaholix*

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thestonedkoala said:
FRANCHISE GOALTENDERS:
Kari Lehtonen
Marc- André Fleury

COULD BE:
Henrik Lundqvist (kind of underrated)
Ilja Bryzgalov
Hannu Toivonen

SUPERSTARS/STARS:
Michael Leighton
Pascal Leclaire
James Howard/Stefan Liv
Brian Finley
Brent Krahn
Peter Budaj/Phillipe Sauve
Jeff Deslauries
Josh Harding
Alex Auld
Jason Bascashiua/Tobias Stephens
David LeVenue
Ryan Miller
Yann Dannis
Ray Emery
Mikhail Tellqvist
Ari Ahonen
Antero Niittymaki
Andy Choido
Cam Ward
Maxime Daigneault/Maxime Ouellett/Rostislav Stana

Does that look right?
There aren't nearly as many potential stars in the prospect world as you've listed.

Guys like...

Chiodo
Danis
Stephans
Krahn
Finley
Howard
Sauve
Budaj
Daigneault
Deslauriers

I don't see how any of those players deserve to be called anything more then potential starters in the NHL. In my opinion, this is how I see it...

Franchise goaltenders: There are a couple, Marc-Andre Fleury and Kari Lehtonen.
Star goaltenders: Quite a few. Goalies that have the potential to become very good #1's.
Potential #1 goalies: A lot of prospects fall under this category.
Potential NHL goalies: Guys like Chiodo, Budaj, Sauve, Howard, Finley, etc...
 

Beakermania*

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Kritty said:
When will people realize that it's THE OHL, not the NHL. Who cares what he's done in junior. Ever heard of Bryan Fogarty, Jason Bonsignore, Cal McGowan, Dave Chyzowski, Scott Scissons, etc, etc. These guys were all HUGE scoring stars in junior but didn't have the game that equated to success at the NHL level. People should really have more to back up an argument of who is the most underrated prospect than "he was good in junior". Big deal. The reason why Locke is not talked about is because of his size and lack of speed. When you are that small you need to have something that can set you apart. Yes, Locke has some good offensive skills, but will he be able to do that at the next level? Personally I say no, but that's just my opinion. I see him as a career minor leaguer much like Jesse Schultz will be. Big junior scorers but that's it.

It kills me how people are willing to discount Locke so quickly cause he doesn't look like he has the skills.

Here's a quick scouting report on the guy that i think most people would agree with.

Weaknesses
Lack of Size, Lack of Speed

Strengths
Incredible Vision, Hockey Sense, playmaking ability. Good but not great shot.

Hmmm... that could be the scouting report on a young Wayne Gretzky, but he didn't do anything at the NHL Level. :lol Don't get me wrong Locke is not anywhere near that level, nor will he ever be, but if he develops into 1/4 of the player i would be more than happy with him.
It could also be the scouting report on Mike Ribiero or Yanic Perreault coming out of junior who have also had good careers in the NHL. Okay maybe career is off on Ribiero but 65 pts this year ain't a bad start.

Locke's regular season scoring pace was maintainned in the OHL playoffs both last year and this year, so when the checking is tighter he still finds ways to play his game.
Let's also remember Corey Locke is a hard worker with a great attitude something that was lacking in some of the career AHLers you guys have mentionned (Bonsignore, and Fogarty especially).

Anyone ever read Moneyball?? Basically its about how the Oakland A's built a strong franchise with stats based scouting. Instead of saying a prospect doesn't look like a player (skill wise) they looked at his OBP and SLUG % and said if he can do it at this level (example AA), why can't he do it at the next (AAA) and then if he does why not in the majors. It seemed to work there, so whats wrong with seeing what Locke can do at the next level (AHL) before we write him off. I think he's underrated because he has been written off already.
 
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thestonedkoala

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I think Howard is going to be awesome IMO, he has shown a lot in college. Choido did good this year and I think he'll only get better. He might be a Hurme type at best.
 

thestonedkoala

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Beakermania said:
It kills me how people are willing to discount Locke so quickly cause he doesn't look like he has the skills.

Here's a quick scouting report on the guy that i think most people would agree with.

Weaknesses
Lack of Size, Lack of Speed

Strengths
Incredible Vision, Hockey Sense, playmaking ability. Good but not great shot.

Hmmm... that could be the scouting report on a young Wayne Gretzky, but he didn't do anything at the NHL Level. :lol Don't get me wrong Locke is not anywhere near that level, nor will he ever be, but if he develops into 1/4 of the player i would be more than happy with him.
It could also be the scouting report on Mike Ribiero or Yanic Perreault coming out of junior who have also had good careers in the NHL.

Anyone ever read Moneyball?? Basically its about how the Oakland A's built a strong franchise with stats based scouting. Instead of saying a prospect doesn't look like a player (skill wise) they looked at his OBP and SLUG % and said if he can do it at this level (example AA), why can't he do it at the next (AAA) and then if he does why not in the majors. It seemed to work there, so whats wrong with seeing what Locke can do at the next level (AHL) before we write him off. I think he's underrated because he has been written off already.

Lack of speed and size I think hurts Locke now....a couple years ago maybe not as bad but the league is becoming a lot bigger and a lot tougher. He'll have to have a couple very successful AHL runs and put up 30-40 points in the NHL before people quit thinking he's a bust and that's going to be a while.
 

leafaholix*

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It's sad how a lot of Hab fans are using Gretzky's lack of size to make a case for Locke.

Gretzky was small... but he had more skill then any player in the world. So much so that size was not a factor for him. Corey Locke lacks size, speed, and isn't a great skater.
 

Beakermania*

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Leafaholix said:
It's sad how a lot of Hab fans are using Gretzky's lack of size to make a case for Locke.

Gretzky was small... but he had more skill then any player in the world. So much so that size was not a factor for him. Corey Locke lacks size, speed, and isn't a great skater.

I never said he was at that level skill wise, but if gretzky was put into a draft situation today he would not go first overall due to the questions on his size and he was never the fastest skater on the teams he played for. Thats my point, sometimes we look too far into a lack of one of the conventional skills and not enough into an abundance of talent in another skill.
 

Beakermania*

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thestonedkoala said:
Lack of speed and size I think hurts Locke now....a couple years ago maybe not as bad but the league is becoming a lot bigger and a lot tougher. He'll have to have a couple very successful AHL runs and put up 30-40 points in the NHL before people quit thinking he's a bust and that's going to be a while.

Did it hurt Ribeiro this year??
 

thestonedkoala

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Dude...Locke is definitely not the second coming of Gretzy, so lets drop that analogy. Locke couldn't hold a candle to Gretz much less a pen torch. I like Locke but I think he's going to work extra hard to dispel any rumors that he is a bust or he'll have trouble adjusting to the NHL, which he will.
 

clem22

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Beakermania said:
I never said he was at that level skill wise, but if gretzky was put into a draft situation today he would not go first overall due to the questions on his size and he was never the fastest skater on the teams he played for. Thats my point, sometimes we look too far into a lack of one of the conventional skills and not enough into an abundance of talent in another skill.


we can argue till were blue in the face, but nobody knows who will be a superstar in 10 years.....Luc robitaille...154th??? I think.....Patrick roy...4 round?? no one knows, there are far too many intangibles that people dont know about...
 

thestonedkoala

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Beakermania said:
Did it hurt Ribeiro this year??

6'0", 177 lbs...Compared to Locke who is what? 5'10"...something around there...

Look at Bouchard and how hard it is for him to adjust to the NHL. Granted he is about 2 inches shorter than Locke but he's quicker and probably has more skill than Locke!
 

Beakermania*

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thestonedkoala said:
Dude...Locke is definitely not the second coming of Gretzy, so lets drop that analogy. Locke couldn't hold a candle to Gretz much less a pen torch. I like Locke but I think he's going to work extra hard to dispel any rumors that he is a bust or he'll have trouble adjusting to the NHL, which he will.

If you re-read my posts i never said he was the second coming. I made it very clear that they are not on the same level. I am merely using gretz to illustrate my point in regards to the way scouts are obsessed with size today.

Look at Fleury, had as many points in junior as Sakic yet was drafted 7 rounds later. If you need another example.
 

Postman

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Feb 27, 2002
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Not the most underrated, but is often overlooked: James Wisniewski. I like him a lot. IMO, he's a sure bet to make the NHL at some capacity. Very smart positionally, strong for his size, and has good offensive instincts.
 

thestonedkoala

Guest
Yes and look at where Fleury is now and where Sakic is now...
 

Beakermania*

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thestonedkoala said:
Yes and look at where Fleury is now and where Sakic is now...

Fleury would still be an NHL superstar if he didn't have off-ice issues ie sexual abuse leading to alcohol/drug problems. Those were not known on draft day so don't tell me it came into play.

Don't tell me Fleury was not a superstar in the NHL, and better than a lot of guys who went after sakic but before him.
 

thestonedkoala

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Fleury also had something to make him a superstar than Locke and that was he was a very well tough player.
 

leafaholix*

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Beakermania said:
... if gretzky was put into a draft situation today he would not go first overall due to the questions on his size and he was never the fastest skater on the teams he played for.
That's hilarious.

I don't remember Gretzky in his youth, as I wasn't even born... but if I recall correctly, he was pretty damn fast and a hell of a skater.
 

Beakermania*

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Leafaholix said:
That's hilarious.

I don't remember Gretzky in his youth, as I wasn't even born... but if I recall correctly, he was pretty damn fast and a hell of a skater.

I watched him and i'll tell you this, he seemed faster than he was because of good postionning and hockey sense.

Gretzky always said his biggest asset was something his father taught him, "Go to where the puck is going, not where its been." He had the uncanny ability to know where the puck was going before anyone else did and so it seemed like he was faster than he was.

In a race Coffey, Kurri, Anderson, and many of the oilers would've beaten gretz one on one.
 

PhoPhan

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Feb 27, 2002
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Just like to throw out David LeNeveu's name, again.

What else does the kid need to do?
 

mazmin

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monster_bertuzzi said:
Kirill Koltsov remains underrated.

-Top prospect of 2001

-WJC gold medal

-Amazing rookie season in AHL, all-rookie team

No doubt! The kid is unbelievable.

Fast, skilled, smart. He's a little undersized but look at Housley and Leetch. He's in the same mould... but we'll see.

The Moose better do whatever it takes to get him signed again next year, as he expressed interest in going back to Russia. The Moose already lost a few D-Men to Europe.
 
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