Most talented player who could fight.

jhershb

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Mar 30, 2006
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From fond memories (Islander season-ticket holder in high school in the mid-late 1970s) I gotta put in another word for Clark Gillies. Not only was he one of the top fighters of his day (I'll never forget his destroying Dave Shultz in the '75 playoffs or his wars with Terry O'Reilly), but he more than held up his end of the bargain offensively on a line with two HOFers, Trottier and Bossey, feeding them from corners and bulling his way in front of the net. Just an ideal all-around complement to a perfect playmaker and a superb sniper, and it was the addition of another comparable player--John Tonelli in March 1980, in a deal that sent Billy Harris (about time) and Dave Lewis (alas) to the LA Kings--that set the Islanders off on their 4-Cup run.
 

ClassicHockey

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May 22, 2005
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I forget who the player was. Remember Jim Jago who played on the team? He works at Weston Arena and we had a long talk about his own career, the 'Metro Junior A' league and Bobby Orr in his early years in Oshawa.

I remember that a player named Westbrooke was the best player for the the '7-Ups' (they had green uniforms with the 7'up bottle at their logo.)

I have a story on that league with all the stats from all the teams. Great reading and like you, it brought back fond memories.

Northern Dancer said:
I am from Brampton, your reference to the Brampton 7 Ups brought back fond memories. The Orr fight may have been against Ron Pettibone. But that was a l-o-n-g time ago, do not call me out on it. :)
 

Murphy

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
2,104
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Edmonton
I came home and dug up the picture I was talking about!

I've had this book since I was seven years old. It's called Bobby Orr:My Game by Orr & Mark Mulvoy, published in 1974.

Anyways the picture is of them more or less wrestling. The caption says "Dave Schultz and I aren't throwing many punches here, but we're still headed for the penalty box"
 

ClassicHockey

Registered User
May 22, 2005
595
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Great shot. Looks like a good trade off for the Flyers to me.

Don't ever throw those old hockey books out.

Murphy2 said:
I came home and dug up the picture I was talking about!

I've had this book since I was seven years old. It's called Bobby Orr:My Game by Orr & Mark Mulvoy, published in 1974.

Anyways the picture is of them more or less wrestling. The caption says "Dave Schultz and I aren't throwing many punches here, but we're still headed for the penalty box"
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
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jhershb said:
From fond memories (Islander season-ticket holder in high school in the mid-late 1970s) I gotta put in another word for Clark Gillies. Not only was he one of the top fighters of his day (I'll never forget his destroying Dave Shultz in the '75 playoffs or his wars with Terry O'Reilly), but he more than held up his end of the bargain offensively on a line with two HOFers, Trottier and Bossey, feeding them from corners and bulling his way in front of the net. Just an ideal all-around complement to a perfect playmaker and a superb sniper, and it was the addition of another comparable player--John Tonelli in March 1980, in a deal that sent Billy Harris (about time) and Dave Lewis (alas) to the LA Kings--that set the Islanders off on their 4-Cup run.

Another Isles season ticket holder from the glory years here.

I agree about Jethro, but you're a bit mixed up about Tonelli.

The March '80 trade of Harris & Lewis was for Butch Goring, not Tonelli.

JT was drafted by the Isles in '77 while playing in the WHA (Houston Aeros). He joined the Isles in '78-'79.
 

JonathanK

McOptimistic
Aug 1, 2005
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Edmonton, AB
Probert. He might not fit perfectly in this list, but he was the greatest fighter of all time (IMO) and he was also an above average NHLer.
 

jiggs 10

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Dec 5, 2002
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ClassicHockey said:
If we are talking about great players that could fight, then Red Kelly might be at the top of the list. Andy Bathgate & Harry Watson can be added as well.

I don't know how the posters are defining 'fight'. If its the best technically sound fighter, then Red Kelly again would be near the top. Kelly was a Golden Gloves Champion while at St. Mikes and after his initial beatdown of Vic Lynn of Toronto in the 1950 semis, Kelly was very seldom challenged. Kelly also wasn't a hothead so that's another reason why he didn't fight as much.

When Maurice Richard fought, it was with much passion and hate and of course he had to have some fighting skills. Gordie Howe showed his fighting skills in the Lou Fontinato fight but not much before and certainly not after that bout.

Bobby Orr has been named here a few times and it seems that, like Gordie Howe, that posters are merely repeating what they have read or heard and just automatically assume that Orr was one of the top fighters. Orr as a fighter can be an interesting debate though.

'Jiggs 10' says that Orr got into 3 or 4 doozies as a rookie but doesn't say who those fights were against. I can presume that two of those were Ted Harris and Orland Kurtenbach - two pretty tough guys. Orr won a decision on Harris but Harris was really fighting with one good arm. Derek Sanderson commented on that fight and said he moved in because he sensed Orr was tiring and that Harris might start to reverse things. Orr had a draw at best against Kurtenbach. But just to hold your own against big Kurt meant that you had to have some fighting ability.

But these were not really doozies in the sense that Orr destroyed his opponents because he didn't.

As for Orr fighting Pat Quinn as a rookie, then that is another piece of misinformation that keeps getting repeated and repeated. First of all, Quinn was not in the NHL when Orr was a rookie. Orr and Quinn did fight late in Orr's third year in the league (when Quinn was a rookie) but it was very brief - each kicked each other in the pants then all the Bruin players jumped in, which they always seemed to do.

It was in Orr's fourth year that he fought Quinn in Boston. Quinn was winning that fight until Fred Stanfield pulled Quinn down from behind with Orr on top. So, people say Orr won but it wasn't a dominant victory if you even call it a win.

When Orr fought, it wasn't so much a skillfull fistic demonstration but rather sheer aggressiveness and determination when he fought. Orr punched linesman and opponents - it didn't matter to him, he was so full of fury when he fought. You can see all this is the fight videos.

Orr shouldn't have been fighting of course. But when Orr did fight, his teammates almost immediately jumped in. I don't know how many people know this but the 'third man' rule in was put in specifically because of the Bruins' brawling, well before the 'Broad Street Bullies' used their cowardly gang tactics.

I just finished helping on a book about Bobby Orr that should be out this fall and of course I recommend you guys getting it to learn more about Orr especially and the Bruins from that era.

One thing that wasn't in the book but is revealing about Orr and his fighting was that when he was 14 years old and playing for the Oshawa Generals, he was beaten up in a fight with a 19 year old player from the Brampton 7ups for no apparent reason. ( A teammate of the Brampton player told me this). I think, that after that fight, Orr was determined not to let that happen to him again. That explains partly why Orr fought so much.

Others did challenge Orr after his rookie year and Orr lost two decisions to Rosaire Paiement. But usually, Orr did well in his fights because of his temper and his aggressiveness and his athletic ability (and his Big Bad Bruins teammates).

I'm just trying to set the record straight about Orr's fights and his battles with Quinn which seem to be misinterpreted.

Well, Pat Quinn tells the story on "Legends of Hockey" (the ESPN series from a few years ago) of Orr creaming him, I have the picture of Orr punching or tackling Quinn as a Leaf, and every hockey history book I have on the subject of Bobby Orr (which is to say 9 books) says the same thing: Orr fought early and won handily, then was rarely challenged for the rest of his career. Granted, the Bruins' goons probably wouldn't let him by the end of the 60's, when he WAS their team. But it is NOT a misrepresentation to say Orr could throw them when need be. By the way, did you go to all of the Bruins games in 1966-67? Otherwise, how do YOU know how many fights he got into without just "reading or hearing" about them? Just curious.
 

ClassicHockey

Registered User
May 22, 2005
595
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Obviously you didn't understand what I wrote and responded like you thought I was attacking you.

I never said that Orr couldn't fight. I was trying to clarify your general statement about Orr destroying other players in his rookie year.

Like I said before, I see all kinds of statements here of old stories that get repeated and no one questions them. You had said Orr beat up 3 guys and you didn't say who they were. What good is that? The one name you mentioned (Quinn) wasn't even in the NHL when Orr was a rookie. I tried to detail for you the actual events of the Orr-Quinn fights but you chose not to believe them. That's fine. Go with what you seem to know. We are all here to express our opinions and can believe what we want.

Again, I said I was trying to set the record straight by detailing who Orr fought and what happened.

How do I know? Well, I've seen the fights for one thing. Secondly, I have every game report and summary on Orr's rookie year. I've just finished researching a book on Orr so I had to recheck all that out. I've talked to Quinn personally and worked on shows on both Quinn and Orr.

I said before that I am the type to question the same old stories that keep getting repeated. That's not to slight anyone here but I feel I have reason to find out what really happened instead of just seeing it in a book.

Isn't it more interesting that way?

jiggs 10 said:
Well, Pat Quinn tells the story on "Legends of Hockey" (the ESPN series from a few years ago) of Orr creaming him, I have the picture of Orr punching or tackling Quinn as a Leaf, and every hockey history book I have on the subject of Bobby Orr (which is to say 9 books) says the same thing: Orr fought early and won handily, then was rarely challenged for the rest of his career. Granted, the Bruins' goons probably wouldn't let him by the end of the 60's, when he WAS their team. But it is NOT a misrepresentation to say Orr could throw them when need be. By the way, did you go to all of the Bruins games in 1966-67? Otherwise, how do YOU know how many fights he got into without just "reading or hearing" about them? Just curious.
 

ClassicHockey

Registered User
May 22, 2005
595
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I'm attaching a game report about the Orr-Quinn fight they had on Feb.1, 1970 from Boston.

People see the photo of Orr on top of Quinn and may think that Orr destroyed him. There is always more to the story than you can see on a picture.

I know what I saw and and nowhere in any articles I've seen come close to your descriptions of when it happened and how it happened.

jiggs 10 said:
Well, Pat Quinn tells the story on "Legends of Hockey" (the ESPN series from a few years ago) of Orr creaming him, I have the picture of Orr punching or tackling Quinn as a Leaf, and every hockey history book I have on the subject of Bobby Orr (which is to say 9 books) says the same thing: Orr fought early and won handily, then was rarely challenged for the rest of his career. Granted, the Bruins' goons probably wouldn't let him by the end of the 60's, when he WAS their team. But it is NOT a misrepresentation to say Orr could throw them when need be. By the way, did you go to all of the Bruins games in 1966-67? Otherwise, how do YOU know how many fights he got into without just "reading or hearing" about them? Just curious.
 

ClassicHockey

Registered User
May 22, 2005
595
6
Another report on the fight.

jiggs 10 said:
Well, Pat Quinn tells the story on "Legends of Hockey" (the ESPN series from a few years ago) of Orr creaming him, I have the picture of Orr punching or tackling Quinn as a Leaf, and every hockey history book I have on the subject of Bobby Orr (which is to say 9 books) says the same thing: Orr fought early and won handily, then was rarely challenged for the rest of his career. Granted, the Bruins' goons probably wouldn't let him by the end of the 60's, when he WAS their team. But it is NOT a misrepresentation to say Orr could throw them when need be. By the way, did you go to all of the Bruins games in 1966-67? Otherwise, how do YOU know how many fights he got into without just "reading or hearing" about them? Just curious.
 

ClassicHockey

Registered User
May 22, 2005
595
6
Here is the first report again. Seems to me that Esposito was fighting Quinn when Orr jumped in, then Orr got the help from Stanfield.

ClassicHockey said:
I'm attaching a game report about the Orr-Quinn fight they had on Feb.1, 1970 from Boston.

People see the photo of Orr on top of Quinn and may think that Orr destroyed him. There is always more to the story than you can see on a picture.

I know what I saw and and nowhere in any articles I've seen come close to your descriptions of when it happened and how it happened.
 

Roger's Pancreas*

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Finnigan said:
Lindros and Kasparaitis fought in the 1996 World Cup. Lindros won the fight, but didn't destroy him as bad as I thought he would.

hard to do when the guy turtles on you.
 

85highlander

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
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Just for sheer numbers of fighting majors and games played, it is telling to me when to comparing these four:

Gordie Howe played in 2187 games (NHL and WHA) and had 25 fighting majors.

Bobby Orr played in 657 games and had 47 fighting majors.

Wayne Gretzky played in 1567 (NHL and WHA) and had 7 fighting majors.

Mario Lemieux played in 915 games and had 7 fighting majors.

Bobby Orr played in far less games and had MORE fights (657 games with 47 fights) than Howe, Gretzky, and Lemieux COMBINED (4669 games with 39 fights).
 

BobbyAwe

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Nov 21, 2006
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South Carolina
My choice would be Larry Robinson rarely beatin in a fight or one on one and could take the puck end to end and as Terry Orielly once put it there isn't much you can do when you keep gettin run into by a Redwood.

Other the players who come to mind are Scott Stevens, Cam Neely,Clark Gilles and Orielly only because his Heart made him play with alot more talent than he actually had. Thoughts:

Danny Gare would be near the top.
 

Psycho Papa Joe

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Feb 27, 2002
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Amongst players I've seen, here's my All Star Team for guys who were all-stars at hockey and all-stars at fighting. My only stipulations are that they are in the HOF, were great fighters and I saw them at their best:

Neely Lindros Gillies
Robinson ?
B.Smith
 

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