More than ever, pro-owner

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by arnie, Jan 22, 2005.

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  1. arnie

    arnie Registered User

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    As the lockout continues. I have become continually more pro-owner based on the behavior of the two sides. While the NHL has treated the lockout for what it is, a business dispute between two large and wealthy contestants who are trying to get the best deal for themselves. There is nothing personal in it. But the NHPLA has continually resorted the childish personal attacks. The players are clearly spoiled brats who throw tantrums when they don't get their way. I'm sick of players like Linden being "insulted" because the NHL is looking out for their best interests, just like the NHLPA is. He has the nerve to be insulted by a system that pays him a couple million dollars a year to play a children's game

    Players are too used to being treated like idols, so they never grow up and think that the world owes them something. It's really sickening.
     
  2. MeatTornado

    MeatTornado I was born ready

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    i'm not with any side of this.


    wake me up when they put their egos aside and get back to hockey.
     
  3. Riddarn

    Riddarn 1980-2011

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    It's Bettmans lockout! Didn't you hear what Linden said? It's all his fault. Stupid weasel Bettman. He's not even a hockey fan. He's a short american lawyer who's never played a game. It's clear that he doesn't like hockey and has set out to destroy it!



    (for those of you that didn't get it; sarcasm)
     
  4. Pepper

    Pepper Registered User

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    I agree with the original poster, the further this has gone the more pro-owner I have become. Whenever I hear morons like Domi, McCabe, Guerin, Esche or Linden open their mouths it just strengthens my wish that NHL will break the union for good.
     
  5. WoodGundy

    WoodGundy Registered User

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    I am to the point where I get more satisfaction from knowing the players are not getting paid than I would from actually watching some NHL hockey. I hope the lockout wipes out next season too.
     
  6. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Sorry...where was the sarcasm? I had to read it a few times...I'm thinking it's because you didn't point out that Bettman is ugly as well.

    But that's pretty subtle...still not sure. :dunno:
     
  7. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I'm actually going the other way. I started out not caring at all, just get a deal done. The longer this has gone the more furstrated I've gotten with Bettman/owners.
     
  8. nyr34

    nyr34 Registered User

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    Yeah same here, I'm truly disgusted with the NHL hard stance. They are single-handedly causing the lockout negotiations to turn sour by refusing to negotiate in any way shape or form. It's a shame no one here see's this. Don't get me wrong I was indifferent towards the cap, but you can't expect one side to cave, you have to find middle ground. That's something the NHL is refusing to do.

    Now, though for comedy's sake, I hope there is a hard cap so that I can see those staunch supporters of it come crying back in a couple years because their team had to be disbanded at the end of the year becuase they had too many good players that now want to be paid accordingly. Under the cap system = no more powerhouse and exciting teams.

    Don't say I never told you...
     
  9. X0ssbar

    X0ssbar Guest

    I agree. I would add Todd Marchant's and Luke Richardson's name to that list as well.
     
  10. eye

    eye Registered User

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    If the players do what seems almost guaranteed now and allow this season to without beginning I don't ever want to cheer for any of them again. They can retire now or go to Europe as the game will never be the same.

    I'm looking forward to a new era with players that play for the love of the game and not for the all mighty buck and what they can bleed from the fans and the owners that pay their salaries.
     
  11. nyr34

    nyr34 Registered User

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    Hope you don't plan on watching hockey ever again, because that's never going to happen. The players weren't making anyone bleed (for the most part), the owners were stupid enough to pay them that much, now they're stuck with their salaries. The problem is not NHL vs NHLPA it's NHL vs NHL, remember that. The owners need to be saved from themselves.
     
  12. robcav

    robcav Registered User

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    I am firmly on the side of the players. Negotiations consist of give and take, not take it or leave it. Bettman has refused to offer any meaningful concessions to the players. He has taken their concessions and offered nothing in return. His vision for the league includes breaking up the teams that are over the cap and distributing their players, wonderful idea. He wants the playoff teams to share revenue with the non-playoff teams. We'll have the Flames and Lightning sharing revenues with the Rangers, does this make any sense at all. He has fans that believe that the cap will lower ticket prices, think again, the ticket prices are set by supply and demand. So instead of the fans dollars going to support the team, they will go to line the owners pockets. He wants teams that can not turn a profit at payrolls in the 20 million dollar range spend over 30 million. He wants the NFL without the revenue sharing. He wants parity in a league that already has parity. He wants to turn the league into some kind of fantasy league with yearly dispersal drafts. Great vision.
     
  13. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    Players withholding their services and player agents also play a huge part in this whole mess... If the owners stuck together in this, it would be called collusion...
     
  14. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    I am so absolutely sick of people attacking the NHL for not negotiating. They are willing to negotiate everything EXCEPT the linkage aspect, thats the only thing they have taken a hard line approach to, thats the only thing that is "take it or leave it". Them refusing to negotiate anything other than cost certainty is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than the NHLPA refusing to negotiate anything with a linkage. Its as simple as that. The thing it boils down to is whether or not the owners are justified in insisting on a linkage, I think (with all the financial problems the league has) that they are absolutely justified in getting a linkage.
     
  15. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Just so we're clear:
    Owners refuse to budge on cost certainy = bad guys
    Players refuse to budge on cost certainty = good guys
    Do I have that correct?

    What you fail to realize is that there is no middle ground on the cap issue. Either there is a cap or there is not cap. There's no semi-cap. There's no "sorta" cost certainty. It either is or it isn't.

    As for your no powerhouse team remarks, that's simply ridiculous and has been proven as such by the NFL. Are the Patriots a powerhouse? Yep. Are the Eagles? Yep. Is Indy? Yep. Has Green Bay been to the playoffs eight of the last 10 years? Yep. Has Pittsburgh been to the playoffs seven of the last 10? Sure have.
     
  16. Don't blame Bettman. He is carrying out the mandate of his employers, the NHL board of Governors and he has not made one move that isn't outside their mandate. Who is Bob Goodenow answer to? Trevor Linden? Are they listening to those who haven't made their millions? Are they listening to Mike Commodore?
     
  17. I forgot to say this: One area where the NHL is VERY wrong is saying that they are the owners and the players are just employees and aren't willing to hear them on the rules of the game. I think there should be a joint committee made up with representation from the players, the owners and the alumni association committed to the rules of the game and improving the quality of the product.
     
  18. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    I'm not sure they said that regarding the rules of the game itself (i.e. the on-ice product). I seem to remember the owners were very receptive to Brendan Shanahan's summit, for example. I believe the comment you're addressing was said in the context of how the owners decide to run their business.
     
  19. Mighty Duck

    Mighty Duck Registered User

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    I would expect when this is all over, you will go watch the owners play hockey. Get real here, who are the fools here, fans for going to games or watching the games on TV whether it be MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL or any other type of entertainment. We, the spectator set the market price, and that determines the value of what the performers get paid. Look at that idiot that was on American Idol, his name slips me right now, but he became so famous because he was so bad, and look at the money the stiff is making now. Look at your NBA, players doing drugs; beating people up in the stands, beating their wives, etc, same in baseball and the football, steroids, gambling, rapists, you name it. But yet these guys make millions entertaining people like us. The NBA has a cap, only 3 teams are under it, and yes the NFL has a cap, where is there parity (New England), and there is baseball, they have a cap. No matter what sort of settlement is established, the NHL has taken a beating as far as PR is concerned. And for you and all the other fans who return, if you return to watch the game, and would do no good to pay $60 bucks to go and boo the players. Bottom line, it will come down to good management that will prevail, and be a successful team and franchise. Vancouver is a perfect example, and funny, they fire Brian Burke, the guy who put it all together.
     
  20. Well I think you need to learn something about the way the NHL has been allowed to operate. Salaries have been allowed to spiral out of control and it is in alrage the owners faults for doing so. But the players, the PA and the agents must take a healthy chunk of the responsibility as well. They are the ones who colluded to drive salaries through the roof. To make matters worse is that every time the owners attempted to control themselves the PA screamed collusion at the top of their lungs and scared the hell out of the owners. In effect, the players were able to act as one massive body while the owners were fractured into 30 independent bodies unable to communicate with each other on issues like contract negotiations and setting the value of given player types. One mistake by one owner is paid for by the other 29. The owners made their bed, but the PA and the agents showed them how to make the nice hospital corners and then tucked them in.

    Everyone is at fault in this mess and everyone has to do their part in fixing the problem. And the owners are trying. Since this is the only time they are allowed to collude they are making sure that they work together and develop a system that will grow the game and develop some stability for the league. They are looking for partnerships in doing this. And that's what the basis for everything is. This is a partnership. Its too bad that the players cannot see that they are being offered a partnership and are guaranteed increased revenues if they can continue to help in the growth of the sport. But there's the problem. The only guarantee the players want is their pay checks and they want no responsibility to the game once they sign on the dotted line. The players want everything and are willing to assume no risk. That is the primary reason the stalemate is where it is at IMO.
     
  21. nyr34

    nyr34 Registered User

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    No, look at it from an outsiders view: Fact is the players were willing to give up 24% of the currently signed contracts, and negotiate a luxury tax system, which is a "sorta cost certainty" thing you claim does not exist. It got the league back to the numbers they wanted to be at. All the NHL owners had to do is be wise with spending (which they wont, which is there fault) and they'll be set. Instead of seeing what could be done about this to make it work, what does the NHL do? Slap on a hard cap to the proposal, adding a couple mil? Thats not negotiating in good faith when someone OBJECTIVE looks at it, especially if it goes to the labor board, I'd be surprised if Bettman wasn't laughed at by them if he ever tries to pull of an impassé.

    The players are willing to concede hundreds of millions from the owners blunders, while the NHL sticks to the same old crap.
     
  22. nyr34

    nyr34 Registered User

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    Look guys I'm not going to continue a debate on this because I frankly don't have time (and there's just to many pro-owner people here for me to handle :) ). But you have to realize everyones at fault here, and they need to work mutually to fix it, to find middle ground (that does exist somewhere). It doesn't matter where you stand, you just want your hockey back. It's understandable, but you have to remember no matter who your rooting for, they don't care about you, the fan who pays to seem them, no matter how much you hate it, its true. If that statement was false we'd have hockey all season long. I just wish we had input into this since I'm sure we could find a compromise. Take care all...
     
  23. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    The luxury tax is not cost certainty. It is a disincentive. A disincentive, I remind you, that numerous teams in leagues with luxury taxes have blown right through. If someone wants to argue that the league doesn't need or deserve absolute cost certainty, have at it. But don't insult everuyone's intelligence by claiming a luxury tax would do the trick because it's been proven totally wrong by MLB and the NBA.

    The 24 percent rollback, by the way, is a joke. It effects few players beyond 2006 and all but insures that salaries will be back at their presently over-inflated levels within a maximum of five years. What it would do mostly is give the rich teams lots of money to play with, allowing them to go out and overpay for free agents the next couple seasons. The PA knows this and that's why they offered it. It was a temporary owie for them that would made all better within a few years.

    Finally, let me be clear: I blame the owners, not the players, for the league's financial mess. The players were wise to take the big fat salaries and exploit the system as best they could to earn as much as they could. I have no problem with that.
    But now the owners are trying to fix their mess in the way they see best. Is that bad for the players? Sure. But since the players greatly benefited from the owners mistakes over the past decade, I don't have a lot of sympathy if they have to suffer a little for it now.
     
  24. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    No matter what system is put in place (short of a hard cap), if one owner decides to spend non hockey revenue on player salaries, the market is on it's way back to where we are now. Short of something in the CBA, how do the owners keep other owners that don't mind spending non-hockey revenue from driving up the salaries across the league?

    Will a luxury tax do this? Not unless it is so restrictive that it acts like a salary cap, which the NHLPA says they don't want and won't accept.

    So, how do owners prevent other owners from putting the NHL back into it's current situation without a salary cap and without collousion?

    Don't say they just have to stick to a budget. It does not work. The press, the fans, and the players on the teams that try to stick to a budget accuse the owners of being cheap and not willing to spend to create a winning team. In the players case, they will then hold out to either get more money or be traded so they can get more money. This will effect the entire teams performance, reduce ticket sales, and the team will lose money.
     
  25. Hockey_Nut99

    Hockey_Nut99 Guest

    It's funny that most pro-player people are fans of the Detroits, Torontos, etc.. Hmm I wonder why?
     
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