More Kessel vs. Toews debate..

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I don't think anyone is questioning Kessel's talent to make Canada's WJC team. But it wouldn't have shocked me if he hadn't of made it. A slight surprise, but no bigger than Canada WJC selection surprises of the past.

But if that did happen, it wouldn't mean that they felt Toews was the better talent - it would have just been a personal preference.

Hell, anyone who has watched Wolski play in the OHL this year can make a compelling argument that there is no way the guy shouldn't have been selected to Canada's WJC. But he wasn't even INVITED to camp as I recall. But Canada wins gold anyway. And not because they invited the 20 most talented players, but because they felt they needed a team with the right mix and chemisty. Eric Staal is another player who didn't get invited his draft year, but it doesn't mean he wasn't a better pro prospect at the time than some of the players who were.

All things being equal, Canada also typically brings along one younger guy if they can - ideally a guy with two more years of eligibility like Toews (where Kessel is a bit of an over-ager for this draft and only has one more year left). There is a certain degree of consideration given to succession.

 

[VOB]

Toews has proved his worth. There is now little question that he is Kessel's equal. It should surprise nor shock no one if he is chosen ahead of Kessel.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Both players impressed last night, Toews was much more consistant though and that pass to Duncan was a beuty. He showed great hockey sense on his goal just hanging in the right spot.

Fortunately for Toews he's on a team that thrives on the tournament and will have more games to prove himself.

 

[firstroundbust]

this is gonna be my only statement regarding this tired argument:

I believe kessel has more upside than Toews, but toews is the safer pick.

 

[crosby_87]

Toews was named the Most Outstanding Player of the West Regional tonight, collecting 5 points in 2 games. He had a goal and an assist against Michigan. He also had a goal and 2 assists against Holy Cross. Boy is he looking amazing right now.

 

[Doomsday Device]

In their last 15 games, Kessel has 20 points and Toews has 21. Perhaps the whole Toews doesn't have much offensive upside thing can be somewhat put to rest.

 

[USA!]

It took John some time to get rolling but now he is on a roll and cannot be stopped and that is a fact!

 

[VOB]

In their last 15 games, Kessel has 20 points and Toews has 21. Perhaps the whole Toews doesn't have much offensive upside thing can be somewhat put to rest.

I always maintained that the only thing holding Toews back for the number 1 spot was his relative lack of offensive production, as all the other areas of his game were fine. The offense has now come and in my opinion, he has to be rated as the clear cut number one pick right now. A good frozen four will simply solidify it.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Towes is going to be a good player and will score. But remember Parise out scored Vanek in the NCAA. Whose moves would you rather have now? Kessel is by far a better scorer.

 

[crosby_87]

Towes is going to be a good player and will score. But remember Parise out scored Vanek in the NCAA. Whose moves would you rather have now? Kessel is by far a better scorer.

Not sure how you can say "by far" since Toews does have more goals. The comparison between parise and vanek is wrong, because they're two completely different players then kessel and toews IMO.

 

[VOB]

Towes is going to be a good player and will score. But remember Parise out scored Vanek in the NCAA. Whose moves would you rather have now? Kessel is by far a better scorer.

You underestimate Toews offensive abilities. Did you not watch the last two games? He can be everybit as electrifying as Kessel while still being the more complete player.

Around Christmas time, many NHL scouts began to say that Toews would push Kessel, challenge him and even overtake him. Many here thought that such talk was crazy and they lambasted reporteres suck as McKenzie and his TSN crew for even bringing up the notion....but scouts were seeing something in Toews that many here were not.

Toews, over the second half of the season is now bringing it together and no one is now saying that Kessel is Toews superior.

 

[Debrincat93]

If you think Toews is another Brad Richards, you're going to be disappointed. Mike Richards, maybe; like M. Richards, Toews oozes character, leadership, grit, hustle and smarts. Kessel has a much stronger offensive upside, but a lot of what we're saying now is what we said about David Legwand in 1998. (The only difference is that Legwand kind of came out of nowhere in his draft year, while Kessel has been under intense scrutiny all year.

Who would I pick if I had the No. 1 pick? Right now, I'd take E. Johnson, but if given the choice between Kessel and Toews, I'd take Kessel. If I had Toews ranked No. 1, I'd trade down to No. 3. If I'm St. Louis, I take Kessel in a heart beat. St. Louis needs that marque, marketable, potentially dynamic scorer. If I'm Pittsburgh, and Erik Johnson is already gone, and I have lots of talented offensive forwards, I strongly look at Toews.

I think expectations were a little too high for Kessel this year. Thanks to his play as a 17-year-old, and the comparisons to Crosby, I think people were expecting him to put up similar numbers to Paul Kariya in Kariya's freshman year. (100 points in 39 games, lead his team to a national championship). As it stands now, I don't think he'll match the numbers of Dany Heatley or Zach Parise in their first year. I think we need to re-evaluate our expectations for Kessel, and realize that what we have is a future first-line scoring forward, but not the franchise forward that many expected.

i dont think ive ever agreed with u on much but this statement i completely agree with everything u said. Nice

 

[MN_Gopher]

You cannot go by goals. Kessel had 33 assists to Towes 17. So by numbers Kessel is by far and above the better playmaker then? What would you rather have more points or more goals. Kessel learned to pass and set up guys like Gordon, look what he did for Bourque. Kessel will score goals. But i cannot think of any center that has more goals then assists.

 

[crosby_87]

You cannot go by goals. Kessel had 33 assists to Towes 17. So by numbers Kessel is by far and above the better playmaker then? What would you rather have more points or more goals. Kessel learned to pass and set up guys like Gordon, look what he did for Bourque. Kessel will score goals. But i cannot think of any center that has more goals then assists.

I apoligize....when you said kessel is by far a better scorer, i thought you meant "goalscorer". Yes Kessel probably does have more offensive potential, but everyone knows that. And regarding your last "I cannot think of any center that has more goals then assists", well Toews does. If you're referring to NHL'ers, vinny lecavalier has more goals then assists at this point.

 

[crosby_87]

To add to that last comment, I also can't see Kessel being a center at the next level. I see him more of a top line wing, flying down the sides of the ice. Probably a left wing is what he'll end up being.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Towes is a center, but alot of the year he was moved around. Playing with Zajac as his center then when he was playing center playing with a guy like Stafford is really nice.

 

[crosby_87]

Towes is a center, but alot of the year he was moved around. Playing with Zajac as his center then when he was playing center playing with a guy like Stafford is really nice.

If you're trying to take away from his offense, don't forget that A) he earned a spot on that line B) at the next level, the people he plays with will be as good or better as his linemates right now. Kessel's will also. But remember Kessel was also a huge part of the top PP in the nation, and he really fed off that. He thrives in extra attacker situations, which is a good thing IMO. I'm just waiting for Kessel to have a terrific game in a "big game" situation. Yes I know he was leading scorer at the WJC, but remember 5 of those assists were against norway. I'm talking about 1 single big game. IMO he disappeared against Holy Cross. He scored, but didn't do much other then that and made a lot of questionable passes on the PP that led to the puck being cleared. Toews has already thrived in big games obviously, as he was named MOP of the West Regional. I NEED to see Kessel play big in a big game. But it looks like I have to wait until at least next year.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Any one see the Mich game. Mich is number one. Kessel goes in there and gets 2 g and an assist. This was not Kessel team it was not his turn to shine. Nodak needed those freshman to score. Like when we needed Vanek to have a huge freshman year. Its not the same situation.

 

[crosby_87]

Any one see the Mich game. Mich is number one. Kessel goes in there and gets 2 g and an assist. This was not Kessel team it was not his turn to shine. Nodak needed those freshman to score. Like when we needed Vanek to have a huge freshman year. Its not the same situation.

Ok you got me, I did not know about the Michigan game. But to say you didn't need your freshmen to score is pretty ridiculous. Sure you've got RyPo and Irmen, but after that...who? You also had to rely on your freshmen to score because they occupied quite a few slots on the top 3 lines. And they didn't produce when it counted(in the playoffs..i'm not at all saying the michigan game didn't count because that was a huge game if they were number 1 at the time). Your right its not the same situation though, UND's freshmen(especially Toews) produced when it mattered.

 

[MN_Gopher]

We, the gophers, leaned on Irmen, Potulny, needed Guyer to score. Needed Harrington and Atherton to play big on D. Those were out needs. Needed something out of Howe and Chucko. There were 3 freshamn on the top three lines.

 

[crosby_87]

We, the gophers, leaned on Irmen, Potulny, needed Guyer to score. Needed Harrington and Atherton to play big on D. Those were out needs. Needed something out of Howe and Chucko. There were 3 freshamn on the top three lines.

Saying you needed Guyer to score is like saying the Sioux needed Prpich to score. Guyer's job is to not give up any goals. But back to the topic. I guess I just counted a few more freshmen on the top lines, as I'm not sure what the Goph's exact line charts are. But you can't say the Gophers didn't need big games from Kessel. He is their 2nd leading scorer. Every team needs their scorers to play big in big games. IMO Toews didn't even need to do a lot of scoring this weekend. Stafford, Zajac, and Oshie were the main ones that this team needed to score, and they all did and then some. I just think Kessel was more essential to the Gophers success then Toews was to the Sioux's. And Kessel disappeared the last 2 weeks of the season.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Did you watch any of the last parts of the season. Kessel was the most noticable player on the ice.

 

[MN_Gopher]

Guyer put up 29, 32, and 32 points his first three years. This year 14. That hurt.

 

[crosby_87]

Guyer put up 29, 32, and 32 points his first three years. This year 14. That hurt.

I'm talking about this year. He was put on that line to prevent goals, you know that. He wasn't expected to put up huge numbers and lead the team this year.

 

[crosby_87]

Did you watch any of the last parts of the season. Kessel was the most noticable player on the ice.

Yes I did, and in my opinion he was not. I thought Potulny was the most noticeable player on the ice. Except for the game against Holy Cross nobody was noticeable. That's just my opinion though, so take it for what it's worth.