Montreal Expos, what's next? UPDATE 3/25 - Stephen Bronfman says “I think we’re close.”

[Bjorn Le]

The title is hilarious because the renderings look like something that would've been done in my high school architectural drafting class over 10 years ago.

First of all, no lol. Hyperbole is such an overrated literary technique.

Second, those a singular pictures of what amounts to concept art. I really hope you don't think that what went to the media is all that was produced. Provencher Roy is a large and well-regarded architecture firm.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Second, those a singular pictures of what amounts to concept art. I really hope you don't think that what went to the media is all that was produced. Provencher Roy is a large and well-regarded architecture firm.

Right. So why does the title say renderings released when the "renderings" are very vague concept art? Renderings may be going back and forth between an architectural firm and the city of Montreal and potential owners but there have been no renderings released to the public.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Move the Angels to Montreal

 

[Bjorn Le]

Right. So why does the title say renderings released when the "renderings" are very vague concept art? Renderings may be going back and forth between an architectural firm and the city of Montreal and potential owners but there have been no renderings released to the public.

I didn't write the title. Anyways, I think you're looking too much in choice of words. Besides, those pictures are "renderings" by their definition, even if they're not the whole package produced.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

 

[garnetpalmetto]

The title is hilarious because the renderings look like something that would've been done in my high school architectural drafting class over 10 years ago.

Right. So why does the title say renderings released when the "renderings" are very vague concept art? Renderings may be going back and forth between an architectural firm and the city of Montreal and potential owners but there have been no renderings released to the public.

I didn't write the title. Anyways, I think you're looking too much in choice of words. Besides, those pictures are "renderings" by their definition, even if they're not the whole package produced.

I edited the title in reference to the post made by @razor ray on the last page. If you'll note, one of the links specifically has "Rendering" in the file name and the title of the article they're from is "Montreal Ballpark Renderings Released." Thus I went with that for consistency's sake. OK? OK. Now, let's move on, please.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I like the setup but I very much doubt the league will eliminate the NL and AL.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I like the setup but I very much doubt the league will eliminate the NL and AL.

You wouldn't have to eliminate the AL and NL names, per se, just make them conferences. Group two divisions in the NL and two in the AL and voila. From a practical standpoint, anyway, the Leagues have already been abolished. The two Leagues exist in name alone - the League presidencies are strictly honorary titles with no real powers and the Leagues no longer have separate umpire staffs. This has been the case for nearly 20 years now when the Leagues ceased to exist as business entities and were merged into MLB in 1999.

 

[Bjorn Le]

You wouldn't have to eliminate the AL and NL names, per se, just make them conferences. Group two divisions in the NL and two in the AL and voila. From a practical standpoint, anyway, the Leagues have already been abolished. The two Leagues exist in name alone - the League presidencies are strictly honorary titles with no real powers and the Leagues no longer have separate umpire staffs. This has been the case for nearly 20 years now when the Leagues ceased to exist as business entities and were merged into MLB in 1999.

True, and I was thinking about adding the aside that I meant eliminating the NL and AL de facto if not jure. I agree that the two leagues exist in name only, but there's eight teams who have been part of the NL for upwards of 120 years that would be moved as a result. There will be massive outrage, and I don't think I'm exaggerating. I agree the leagues operate as separate in name only, but I believe a lot of people don't care about that. They care that their Cards or Cubbies are NL teams and won't accept a transition. There really isn't a way around it either. If you make them conferences, lets say the East and North the AL and the Midwest and West the NL, now the Phillies, Pirates, Reds, and Braves are now AL teams.

The best way around it, to me, is to do away with conferences but refer to teams as "AL" or "NL" teams regardless of alignment. It gives even less purpose to NL and AL names but honestly not much less.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

True, and I was thinking about adding the aside that I meant eliminating the NL and AL de facto if not jure. I agree that the two leagues exist in name only, but there's eight teams who have been part of the NL for upwards of 120 years that would be moved as a result. There will be massive outrage, and I don't think I'm exaggerating. I agree the leagues operate as separate in name only, but I believe a lot of people don't care about that. They care that their Cards or Cubbies are NL teams and won't accept a transition. There really isn't a way around it either. If you make them conferences, lets say the East and North the AL and the Midwest and West the NL, now the Phillies, Pirates, Reds, and Braves are now AL teams.

The best way around it, to me, is to do away with conferences but refer to teams as "AL" or "NL" teams regardless of alignment. It gives even less purpose to NL and AL names but honestly not much less.

Eh, I think the massive outrage would die down relatively quickly. Look at the AFL-NFL merger. The Steelers, Browns, and Colts went from being NFL teams to being grouped in with the old AFL teams in the AFC. I'm sure there were people livid at the thought that their beloved Steelers would be in a conference with the AFL upstarts, but I can't think of a Steelers, Browns, or Colts fan today that really cares. Granted we're talking (at most) about 37 years of history at the time of the merger as opposed to 130 in the case of the Pirates, but still.

 

[BMOK33]

LOL, that north division is a disaster. Its like half the teams spend out of their minds and the others pinch pennies. It would be the same playoff teams every year forever until a bunch of owners croaked.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Eh, I think the massive outrage would die down relatively quickly. Look at the AFL-NFL merger. The Steelers, Browns, and Colts went from being NFL teams to being grouped in with the old AFL teams in the AFC. I'm sure there were people livid at the thought that their beloved Steelers would be in a conference with the AFL upstarts, but I can't think of a Steelers, Browns, or Colts fan today that really cares. Granted we're talking (at most) about 37 years of history at the time of the merger as opposed to 130 in the case of the Pirates, but still.

Maybe, but as you say, the NFL didn't have nearly the amount of history at the time of the merger that the MLB did then, let alone now. There really is not precedent for eliminating this history. Even in the NHL, you have people clamouring for the return of the Campbell and Wales conferences, despite those having less than 30 years history when they were removed.

The outrage would subside, sure, but it's hard to say what the reaction would be.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Anyone who thinks eliminating AL and NL wouldn't trigger a huge backlash lives in some fantasy alternate reality. The reasoning for it would have to be a lot better than 'we have some expansion teams'. Baseball is nostalgia-driven. It's a pastiche on old-time America..the stadiums, the pageantry, I mean the whole Field of Dreams thing. Getting rid of the leagues would be like ripping the heart out of the sport. It's one thing to try and reach new fans, it's another to needlessly alienate the existing fans who flush money into your pockets. It's not kids who spend 100$ for good seats at a ballgame, it's the 35+ crowd.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I would be pissed if AL is eliminated

Its a special thing having NL vs AL over these 100+ years

It would be ultimate example of breaking something that didn't need to be fixed

Also putting Sox/Cubs , Yanks/Mets , Giants/A's in same divisions would not go over well with fans and further hurt sport

Also things are already watered down enough with play in game for WC when play in games were once special event when they happened that adding more teams into playoffs diminishes MLB season even more

And a longer playoff season means more likely early Nov games which in places like Chicago could be miserable experience for fans to sit thru and players to play in

 

[Bjorn Le]

Anyone who thinks eliminating AL and NL wouldn't trigger a huge backlash lives in some fantasy alternate reality. The reasoning for it would have to be a lot better than 'we have some expansion teams'. Baseball is nostalgia-driven. It's a pastiche on old-time America..the stadiums, the pageantry, I mean the whole Field of Dreams thing. Getting rid of the leagues would be like ripping the heart out of the sport. It's one thing to try and reach new fans, it's another to needlessly alienate the existing fans who flush money into your pockets. It's not kids who spend 100$ for good seats at a ballgame, it's the 35+ crowd.

I agree, but the MLB needs to pursue with unyielding fervour the under 35 crowd. Any business who eschews their support is committing themselves to a slow and painful death. Haley-Davidson is a good example outside sports. Both the NFL and the MLB are vulnerable from falling into this. I like what baseball has done in the last 10 years (video review, two wild cards, elimination of ASG home team advance, and what I believe to be juiced balls).

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

If you go 32 make it simple and have two 8 team divisions in each league then have playoffs be two Div winners vs two WC teams

AL East = Bos , NY , TB , Tor , Bal , Cle , Det , Chi
AL West = KC , Min , Oak , Tex , Sea , LAA , Hou , Por
NL East = Was , Mia , Atl , NYM , Phi , Pit , Cin , Mon
NL West = LAD , Ari , Col , SD , SF , Stl , Mil , Chi

Keep some great rivalries intact and try to reignite some old one's. For instance Yankees and White Sox once had good rivalry in 50's and 60's with Sox many years only being denied Pennant because of Yankees (And Indians as well ,, Good 3 team rivalry 50's)

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

You have to go with eight 4 team divisions.

Montreal and Portland?

AL East

New York
Boston
Toronto
Detroit

AL South

Tampa
Texas
Houston
Baltimore

AL North

Chicago
Cleveland
Minnesota
Kansas City

AL West

Anaheim
Seattle
Oakland
Portland

NL East

New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Montreal

NL South

Miami
Atlanta
Cincinnati
Washington

NL North

St. Louis
Chicago
Milwaukee
Colorado

NL West

Los Angeles
San Diego
Arizona
San Francisco

18 games against each team in your division, 6 games against the remaining 12 teams in your league and a home and home series against a division in the opposite league (24 games) rotating every season until each division has played each other over a 4 year span and then starting over in the 5th year. With the shortened season, you can extend the playoffs to 8 teams per league. 5 game series in the 1st and 2nd round, 7 in the CS and World Series. Division winners get a playoff spot and the 4 wildcards are determined based on record and can come from any division. So one division could have all 4 teams make the playoffs while the other 3 only have 1. Season still starts in late March/early April but ends in mid September.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Anyone who thinks eliminating AL and NL wouldn't trigger a huge backlash lives in some fantasy alternate reality. The reasoning for it would have to be a lot better than 'we have some expansion teams'. Baseball is nostalgia-driven. It's a pastiche on old-time America..the stadiums, the pageantry, I mean the whole Field of Dreams thing. Getting rid of the leagues would be like ripping the heart out of the sport. It's one thing to try and reach new fans, it's another to needlessly alienate the existing fans who flush money into your pockets. It's not kids who spend 100$ for good seats at a ballgame, it's the 35+ crowd.

And I'd argue that those who cling to the AL/NL names like they really mean anything at this point are the ones living in a time warp. Again, at this point, the AL and NL are just names and aside from the DH rule, they're little more than conferences. In reality, MLB has taken a wrecking ball to the idea that the two are anything but conferences.

• They eliminated the two League offices and consolidated the powers the League presidents held into the hands of the commissioner of MLB;
  
• They combined the two League umpiring staffs into a singular MLB staff;
  
• They first instituted and then expanded regular season interleague play; and
  
• They've moved teams between Leagues whenever necessary to support realignment/scheduling change efforts (the Brewers going from the AL to the NL in 1998 and the Astros going from the NL to the AL in 2013)

The last, to me, is perhaps the most telling. Where are the legions of Brewers fans and Astros fans who've permanently given up on MLB now that their teams are in the other League? I'd say right now that, aside from complicating my fandom with the Tampa Bay Rays, I'd have no problem with the Pirates being moved to the AL.

 

[EC09]

How can you put Detroit in the AL East when Cleveland is further East?

 

[Kane One]

f*** all this.

Why can’t they simply add two new teams? Why the radical changes?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

**** all this.

Why can’t they simply add two new teams? Why the radical changes?

Because you can't add two teams to the existing structure without, at minimum, a division realignment and even then you'd have uneven divisions which was what moving the Astros to the AL was supposed to solve.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The NFL had little relevance in this country until the Super Bowl era.

 

[Kane One]

Because you can't add two teams to the existing structure without, at minimum, a division realignment and even then you'd have uneven divisions which was what moving the Astros to the AL was supposed to solve.

Two 8-team divisions in the AL and NL can’t work? Or how about four 4-team divisions in both?

 

[Melrose Munch]

They should go to 16 teams in the playoffs. Just end the charade. And make all the series best of 7 as compensation for the reduced regular season.

 

[Bjorn Le]

They should go to 16 teams in the playoffs. Just end the charade. And make all the series best of 7 as compensation for the reduced regular season.

Yes. Although I would be fine with 3/5/7/7 as series lengths.