Montoya > Schwarz??

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by KingPurpleDinosaur, May 22, 2004.

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  1. KingPurpleDinosaur

    KingPurpleDinosaur Bandwagon Kings Fan

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    according to young guns hockey rankings, they have now put montoya over schwarz. This is the first time i've seen any publication put montoya over schwarz, so has he really passed him up? or is it just this one place that believes so?

    also, isn't the #3 spot a bit high for montoya?

    http://younggunshockey.com/
     
  2. Cerebral

    Cerebral Registered User

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    They also have Schneider at 13 and have Olesz, Schremp and Ladd going outside the top 9. I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in the rankings..
     
  3. Pekka Lampinen

    Pekka Lampinen Registered User

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    They overvalue goalies a lot. While I'm not against picking netminders early, Montoya, Schwarz and Schneider's equals can be found in later rounds (although most of the teams don't). Only unique goalie prospects (DiPietro and better) should be picked in the top twenty, but still as high as it takes like with Fleury, Lehtonen and Luongo. The late first round is the time for the likes of Montoya, Schwarz, Ward, Deslauriers and Toivonen.
     
  4. Broadway Brett

    Broadway Brett Registered User

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    I think Montoya is BETTER than Schwarz, I didn't see Schwarz play, but I've seen Montoya play... And he plays AMAZING! Montoya will be a future all-star, he's just amazing! He is going to be great, and he will be better than Schwarz. :teach:
     
  5. Classic Devil

    Classic Devil Spirit of 1988

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    How can you say that if you haven't seen Schwarz play?
     
  6. Broadway Brett

    Broadway Brett Registered User

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    I base it on what I have read. I also don't think that a goalie could be better than Montoya at this point in their career.
     
  7. pittengineer

    pittengineer Registered User

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    You need to see Schwarz play then. Montoya and him are not seperated by a lot, but schwarz will be the 1st goalie taken.
     
  8. Broadway Brett

    Broadway Brett Registered User

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    How did you see Schwarz play? I feel unspecial. :cry: I like Montoya alot, I think he has "All-Star" written on his chest, not "MICHIGAN".
     
  9. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    Marek Schwarz has super goalie written all over him.

    Dominik Hasek potential.
     
  10. pittengineer

    pittengineer Registered User

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    Wouldnt go that far, but he will be a good goalie if he continues to develop.
     
  11. KingPurpleDinosaur

    KingPurpleDinosaur Bandwagon Kings Fan

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    has montoya beat out schwarz eversince the WJCs? was his performance that stunning to warrant him jumping up in the draft order like this?
     
  12. Russian Fan

    Russian Fan Registered User

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    If you ask me, I would be surprise to see some scouting teams that would prefered Montoya over Schwarz. But if you have to check the list of the 30 teams scouting, we would probably Schwarz ahead of Montoya most often than the opposite.

    That said, Montoya could very well be ahead of Schwarz by close to 10 NHL teams scouting. (speculation of course)
     
  13. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    Silly question;

    Pascal Leclaire was picked relatively early in the first round. Is he one of those aforementioned 'unique' goaltenders (a la. DiPietro), or did the Jackets just need a 'goaltender of the future' and had no other prospects they would use a first rounder on?
     
  14. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    Ive seen Montoya play a couple of times and his impression on me was very good. I'm an Ohio State fan so they were in town for a weekend home series. First game he was spectacular, i believe posting a shutout. The second night he was off his game considerably in a 5-2 rout.

    He had an especially bad 2nd period. My friends and I were sitting behind him and there is a small open deck for people to stand. A few obnoxious fans made themselves well known to Montoya. Though a parallel may not exist, he gave up a shorthanded goal, and infinitely worse, an own goal during that second period.

    My only analysis from it was that he might be a little rattled by rowdy fans, though im sure its infintely worse in those classic Michigan vs. Michigan St. games

    But ofcourse, us Buckeye fans love to cling to that incredible CCHA championship game! Go Bucks!
     
  15. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    No, I think Schwarz is still ahead of Montoya on most lists.
     
  16. Pekka Lampinen

    Pekka Lampinen Registered User

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    Leclaire doesn't belong in that group, although admittedly my vision of his potential back in 2001 is very blurry. The way I see it, the decision to pick him was partly because of the Jackets' need for a great goalie prospect, partly due to overvaluing a goalie of his level and partly simply overestimating his talent. Leclaire and Blackburn both belong in said "20-30" group. Having no other options would have sounded silly even back then, e.g. Ruutu was still available.

    And to Leafaholix, there is no such thing as Hasek potential. A prospect displaying such potential would have very questionable technique, making him an inferior prospect. Schwarz does seem a wee bit like the Dominator, but fortunately for him not that much. If we ever see another goalie like Hasek, he will also come out of the blue.
     
  17. Golbez

    Golbez Registered User

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    who run younggun website? There are no names of authors anywhere on the site that I could find.

    And looking at their 2003 rankings...yikes!!
     
  18. Chief

    Chief Registered User

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    I don't get the opportunity to spend a lot of time on this board but I'm glad I read this thread as there seems to be quite a few questions about younggunshockey.com which I can answer since I contribute to the site.

    I don't agree with Laituri's claim that we generally overvalue goalies...last year, we had Fleury at #1 but our next highest ranked goalie wasn't until James Howard at #50...in contrast, this year we currently have 3 goalies in our top 15...and I can speak for myself as to why I had some of those goalies ranked where I did...let me give you an example looking at a couple of players...I feel very strongly that Montoya will be a top goalie in the NHL...I also like Tukonen a lot but I don't feel as strongly about his potential success as a top line forward in the NHL and for that reason I ranked him lower than Montoya...if I worked for a team and I was picking on draft day, I would not necessarily pick Montoya over Tukonen...that decision would depend on various factors like the needs of my organization at each position and how much of a drop off in talent there was at a particular position in that draft...but that's not what we're trying to do with our rankings, at least not with the top half of the first round...those are picks that we feel should be reserved for players with high ceilings and the greatest likelihood of achieving that high ceiling.

    As for Golbez's comments, younggunshockey.com is a site run by the same scouts who provide all the info you find on the site...the whole idea was for this group of people to get together to create an entity which would provide a high level of scouting info for hockey fans interested in the draft...we want people to focus on the name younggunshockey and we figured that the best way to do that would be to not promote the names of the individuals involved...regarding our rankings, I believe they will prove to be as good or better than other scouting services...although our draft guide isn't a mock draft, last year, we compared where players were actually picked to where we had them ranked in our guide...we then did the same thing for 2 of the other popular draft services...for the purposes of that comparison, we simply looked at who had a player ranked closer to where he was actually picked...the results showed that none of the guides were that much better than the others in matching up to the actual draft...we had some guys pegged better than the other guides and they had about the same amount of players pegged better than we did.

    We'll let our draft guides speak for themselves but I'll say this...eventhough we spend a lot of time compiling our lists and ranking them, I always thought one of the most important reasons to check out a draft guide, especially as you get further along in the rankings, was not so much to see if a player was ranked #45 or #55 but rather just to be able to get a scouting report on a player...there always seemed to be a dearth of information out there unless you wanted to pay through the nose for a scouting service...and eventhough a report may not be as high on a player as the team that picked him is, it's still usefull to be able to read that the guy is a tough as nails defenseman or a defensive forward with a meanstreak or whatever else might apply to that player...thanks for taking an interest in our service.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2004
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