WWE: Monday Night Raw part 178: The one without fries..

[Sheppy]

So, Sunday night. Alexa has her best match 2 days ago. Possible, it was at least 3-stars. But maybe you can recap what kind of reaction that match was getting, I promise you I gave it a better one than the live crowd did, and also more apt to acknowledge her in-ring improvement. It's what's saved us from a Dana Brooke title reign.

But, yes, it was a point you made. You said Sasha hasn't been good in the ring since she fought Charlotte, and that's not true. Nothing's she's done has been as good as when she was with Charlotte, but she's had one bad PPV match since being called up and it was a on a kickoff show, and she was working with Nia Jax and was getting squashed. She made her look passable a number of other times. You might as well tell us Andrew MacDonald is worth $30 million dollars.

We get the rest though, blah blah blah, Sasha and Bayley suck at everything, NXT was a long time ago, you don't watch it anyways, and it doesn't matter that they move merch, etc. Bayley's awful booking is biggest reason why they haven't been able to turn Sasha heel. Regardless, this isn't meant to be a litigation of those three. All three of them bring something to the table that WWE has failed to capitalize on, just in time for Alexa to start looking over her shoulder for Mandy Rose. I'm pointing out, again, that you're missing the boat, again, on the actual problem. Usually you just kind of talk yourself into insulting them since your points rarely have substance. It's almost definitely exactly what Vince does each night when he picks out who Roman Reigns gets to turn into a geek. Almost definitely exactly.

Booking, writing, scripting, and terrible finishes to your matches has bogged down the division for the better part of this whole year - or about as long as Alexa has been champion. The terrible finishes more than anything is what really kills the matches, and it's happened on both brands. Alexa's gotten terrible talking segments pretty often, she's just excellent at delivery and people recognize that (and better than Becky). That's the bottom line, core problem of WWE. Finn Balor gets earmarked for a huge match with Lesnar at the Rumble, a guy that they probably have to talk Lesnar into wanting to make look good. The way to get there has been to have him basically ignore that he's owed a Universal Title rematch, give him a terrible feud with Bray Wyatt, drop the mulligan he got when he got to put him over AJ by having Kane squash him, marginalize him at Survivor Series, and have Joe choke him out twice, all the while Triple H is at war with Vince to keep him out of 205 Live. Today, we learn Vince thinks he's not over. Probably better off, maybe he can go to Smackdown and get his revenge on Jinder.

I don't disagree with the poor booking. Both her and Bayley have been put on the back burner, and i blame creative for half of it, the other half has to do with their lack of ability to evolve and improve. You can blame creative for whatever, but the fact is, their promo work has sucked beyond belief. When either of them talk it's like nails on a chalk board. Their delivery is piss poor. It seems like they're just happy with the ride they're on and OK with whatever happens. I'm not saying they're mailing it in, they just haven't showed me anything of substance since their call up... especially Bayley. Bayley in NXT was actually not too bad, however right now... I just can't. Everything she does annoys me, even just looking at her annoys me.

I'll be the first to admit that Bayley is beyond f***ing cringeworthy to me. Like to the point where i change the channel when she's on. I can't handle her and there's only so far they can take her character. She's booked as a special needs 9 year old in all honesty. She's basically female Eugene. Sasha is miles, MILES better than Bayley and has impressed me so much more, but that said, I still think Sasha is lacking something. Maybe it's her face run that's just been bad. She was a great heel in NXT and played her character perfectly... this is a case where i don't understand how she hasn't turned yet. With her being put on the back buner it likely won't have the same effect as it would if they were the center of the division. That said, is that because of WWE creative? or is it because someone else "grabbed the brass ring" because Sasha has gotten a little too comfortable? I have praised Sasha's NXT work quite a bit, and Bayley too, by the way.

Alexa Bliss has stolen the ball from both Bayley and Sasha, dribbled it down the court and dunked it. She's so far beyond them (Character wise) and is much more interesting out there. She has out-popped them both on quite a few occasions despite being the heel. Obviously, she's not nearly as good in the ring and she relies a lot on her mannerisms in there, but Sasha nor Bayley have outdone her since her time up on the main roster.

When it comes to the 4 horsewomen, I think that Charlotte is far exceeded the rest. She just has this presence about her that just screams main event material and I just don't see that with any of the others (Bayley, Sasha, Becky)... YET. I'm not saying it can't happen, it just seems like Charlotte has been by far the best. Could it be because of her old man? Absolutely, but you can't deny her presence out there. She makes the rest of them look like children.

 

[Jonas1235]

it's hard being a heel in 2017, especially as a woman.

 

[GKJ]

I don't disagree with the poor booking. Both her and Bayley have been put on the back burner, and i blame creative for half of it, the other half has to do with their lack of ability to evolve and improve. You can blame creative for whatever, but the fact is, their promo work has sucked beyond belief. When either of them talk it's like nails on a chalk board. Their delivery is piss poor. It seems like they're just happy with the ride they're on and OK with whatever happens. I'm not saying they're mailing it in, they just haven't showed me anything of substance since their call up... especially Bayley. Bayley in NXT was actually not too bad, however right now... I just can't. Everything she does annoys me, even just looking at her annoys me.

I'll be the first to admit that Bayley is beyond ****ing cringeworthy to me. Like to the point where i change the channel when she's on. I can't handle her and there's only so far they can take her character. She's booked as a special needs 9 year old in all honesty. She's basically female Eugene. Sasha is miles, MILES better than Bayley and has impressed me so much more, but that said, I still think Sasha is lacking something. Maybe it's her face run that's just been bad. She was a great heel in NXT and played her character perfectly... this is a case where i don't understand how she hasn't turned yet. With her being put on the back buner it likely won't have the same effect as it would if they were the center of the division. That said, is that because of WWE creative? or is it because someone else "grabbed the brass ring" because Sasha has gotten a little too comfortable? I have praised Sasha's NXT work quite a bit, and Bayley too, by the way.

Alexa Bliss has stolen the ball from both Bayley and Sasha, dribbled it down the court and dunked it. She's so far beyond them (Character wise) and is much more interesting out there. She has out-popped them both on quite a few occasions despite being the heel. Obviously, she's not nearly as good in the ring and she relies a lot on her mannerisms in there, but Sasha nor Bayley have outdone her since her time up on the main roster.

When it comes to the 4 horsewomen, I think that Charlotte is far exceeded the rest. She just has this presence about her that just screams main event material and I just don't see that with any of the others (Bayley, Sasha, Becky)... YET. I'm not saying it can't happen, it just seems like Charlotte has been by far the best. Could it be because of her old man? Absolutely, but you can't deny her presence out there. She makes the rest of them look like children.

Alexa got the ball on Smackdown, and they moved her to Raw because Vince realized she had great mic skills, and because Charlotte needed to get away from Bayley and Sasha. Alexa also was effective with the script, same as Charlotte. Alexa always had it, the question was if her in-ring would catch up, and it has as long as she has an excellent worker across from her.

Out-popping a face when you're a heel is the norm in WWE, that is because they can't book faces, it's been the issue for many years now. Braun Strowman was popping people too despite with the 'larger than life' figure everyone complains is behind the times. Back when there was 'we want Sasha' chants, she was a heel too. Same with Joe. Alexa and Charlotte have always done better with the script. But that means Bayley and Sasha who do better without it, wasted all that time they spent with Dusty in front of a mirror. The best stuff Bayley and Sasha put out there is when WWE sticks a camera backstage with Mike Rome and they're hanging out and goofing off - the only chance they really have to do anything on their own. Sasha also has been able to shut down crowd when they've gone into business for themselves. They clearly have the ability to be effect characters, they are just not allowed to do it.

Charlotte exceeded the rest because she was booked that way. That's the whole theme here. She was put over in the 7-month feud with Sasha, which then hurt Sasha, and then had that bad finish when Bayley won the title from her, which was the wrong thing to do. Becky, they just don't see as someone any more than someone who can work, but if Charlotte makes them look like children, it's because they made you think that. Charlotte is not main event material if she doesn't have another woman to main event with. They weren't even firm on it when she main evented Hell in a Cell with Sasha - that was something decided the day of the show (and then Vince changed the finish with hurt both of them), and if they weren't doing it then, what is out there currently that they could build to main event a PPV with the women unless it was 4HW vs 4HW? Only thing out there right now is Asuka.

There is no doubt that Bayley and Sasha both need a change, I would have them both be heel doing the Sami and KO thing, but they also need time to do that, and it's not going to happen if the women are only getting two segments and there's other plans for them for Wrestlemania, where they then will get a lot of time. Becky got nothing too, they gave Becky the captain role for Survivor Series and geeked her out. In order to be able to evolve and do something with their characters, they have to be given something, and they just don't get that chance.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

it's hard being a heel in 2017, especially as a woman.

Character wise it’s still easier being a heel than a face, hence why as of now, Alexa’s character work is better than Sasha’s. I want a Sasha heel turn so people can stop underrating her again, and that’s coming from me who finds her super annoying in non-kayfabe channels.

 

[Blueblood9]

So fun fact: Mandy Rose is from the next town over from me and was engaged to my boy (he got absolutly roasted on IG btw). Shes not as dumb as she looked in Tough Enough and hotter in person. Before she left for TE she was one of the nicest people ive met but apparently she changed after TE.

 

[Shoalzie]

it's hard being a heel in 2017, especially as a woman.

Alexa is a good heel but she also just looks like an angry cheerleader. She could go back and forth as a heel and face without changing her overall look. Her promos and facial expressions work well in-character.

Paige could be a good anti-hero heel given her outside the ring situation. Am I the only one that found it funny that she returns as a part of a threesome?

Sasha should be a heel eventually. So easy to make women like Nia or Tamina heels because they're more physically imposing.

They've done a heel run with Charlotte but it's hard to make her character heel any time soon given situation with Ric.

Becky could be a good heel if they let her be intense in-ring and with promos.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Decided to listen to Sonya's theme in NXT out of curiosity.

I hope they will keep it.

It's awesome.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Alexa should always be heel. So should Charlotte, really.

Sasha is a better heel.

Paige is a good tweener.

Bayley should always be face.

Becky is a great face and needs a good run as one but I bet she’d be an awesome dark heel.

 

[SeidoN]

Charlotte is working face alot better than I expected

 

[Lunatik]

I am hoping for more invasion on Raw and that it isn't just women. Would love is Burch & Orcan or AoP came out and beat down a couple of the tag teams. Then I hope we find out that Angle and Bryan are behind the invasions and working together against Shane/Steph

 

[Emperoreddy]

Heel Sasha in NXT was better then every female heel we have seen on the main roster since at least AJ.

This was just vicious.

 

[Lunatik]

Heel Sasha in NXT was better then every female heel we have seen on the main roster since at least AJ.

This was just vicious.

I've been watching NXT on the Network from the beginning recently (I just re-discovered wrestling less than 2 years ago) and I just saw Banks initial debut against Paige and my god was she bland then. Looking forward to seeing her and a few others progress though

 

[GKJ]

Heel Sasha in NXT was better then every female heel we have seen on the main roster since at least AJ.

This was just vicious.

This was it. This was the moment.

 

[ColePens]

Let me know when you get to Paige vs. Emma. That was one of the women's matches that changed my view on women's wrestling. It was so good. It gave me hope for the future.

And then WWE was awful.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Let me know when you get to Paige vs. Emma. That was one of the women's matches that changed my view on women's wrestling. It was so good. It gave me hope for the future.

And then WWE was awful.

Yep. I feel the same.

It was the first real kickoff point to what was eventually dubbed 'women's revolution'.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I've been watching NXT on the Network from the beginning recently (I just re-discovered wrestling less than 2 years ago) and I just saw Banks initial debut against Paige and my god was she bland then. Looking forward to seeing her and a few others progress though

As the first of the 4 Horsewomen to debut she definitely didn't seem to promise much - the angle between her and Audrey Marie (Tyler Breeze's wife) didn't help things at all. Of course that's also when Paige was in a feud with "The First Lady of NXT," Summer Rae.

Let me know when you get to Paige vs. Emma. That was one of the women's matches that changed my view on women's wrestling. It was so good. It gave me hope for the future.

And then WWE was awful.

Bayley's debut match (against Paige) predates that and is also a fairly strong match, IMO. Bayley's character is completely undistinguished (the hugger/side ponytail/colorful tights gimmick wasn't there yet)but it's a surprisingly good match.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Let me know when you get to Paige vs. Emma. That was one of the women's matches that changed my view on women's wrestling. It was so good. It gave me hope for the future.

And then WWE was awful.

Yep. I feel the same.

It was the first real kickoff point to what was eventually dubbed 'women's revolution'.

Glad I’m not alone in thinking this.

It didn’t start with Sasha, Charlotte, Becky, and Bayley. It started with Paige and Emma

 

[GKJ]

Women’s trios tonight.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Sasha/Bayley in Brooklyn is still the actual turning point for modern women’s wrestling. That was the match that brought the real massive attention to women’s wrestling where as before many people still didn’t care no matter the uptick in match quality.

It was also pretty much at this point where fans hit their breaking point with main roster booking of 2 minute piss break matches and Bella bullshit.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

See that can’t possibly be true because that main evented because of the demand. The turning point had already happened by then and people demanded they get a shot as the main event.

Tuning in tonight for Braun and Paige and the fact that there’s simply no Blues hockey on tonight

 

[ColePens]

Let's get a new thread tonight.