OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
1) Monahan only played 5 out of 77 games at age 18 that season. For all intents and purposes that was his 19 year old season.
2) 18 Assists to 13 assists mean nothing? Geez.
Monahan vs. Bennett in a steel cage chutes and ladders match!
- Thread starter WhiskeyYerTheDevils
- Start date
1) Monahan only played 5 out of 77 games at age 18 that season. For all intents and purposes that was his 19 year old season.
2) 18 Assists to 13 assists mean nothing? Geez.
- Apr 27, 2005
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He was a 19 year old rookie. His production throughout his career has been much lower without Gaudreau. That is a fact.
It is better point production.
They've played together several times over the past few years, and Bennett's production almost always went through the roof. He had like 6p in a 4 game stretch with Gaudreau as a rookie. I mentioned those other factors, but it appears you ignored that.
Yea, its one preseason game, but with the way they performed wouldn't it make you think that it might be worth trying it out again?
Working better =\= produce better.
Disagree.
How am I attacking Monahan? I'm just pointing out that Bennett's "struggles" might be more to do with the pilons he's been forced to play with. Monahan has been fortunate enough to get prime time with an elite offensive player and play driver. Just because a pairing has worked doesn't mean the team shouldn't consider other options, especially if it could help balance out the attack. That's not an attack on Monahan.
Your comment about Monahan being the team's best forward over the last 3 years just confirms to me your bias in this manner, so I suppose it's not worth discussing any further. You seem terrified at the prospect of him losing his spot alongside the team's top scorer.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
This is such a pointless argument, because there are two ways this season will go:
-the team is successful throughout the season, in which case who cares what the lines are?
-the team struggles at times throughout the season, and Gulutzan tries all these different line combinations until the team is successful again.
-the team is successful throughout the season, in which case who cares what the lines are?
-the team struggles at times throughout the season, and Gulutzan tries all these different line combinations until the team is successful again.
WeegarUnderwood
Fan of Intangibles
Monahan is pretty good, but I think Gaudreau is easily the best forward on this team. He's that elite forward, Monahan isn't
Baxterman
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2017
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Not at all I have no problem with a Tkachuk-Monahan-Versteeg line at all.
I just don't think we should be breaking up pairings like Monahan-Gaudreau and Backlund-Frolik because Bennett has struggled to score at the NHL level.
I would rather try other guys with Bennett or move him to the wing. If Bennett is so good with Gaudreau as you claim then my first preference would be to have him join Monahan and Gaudreau on the wing as I think he would be a much better fit than Ferland and instead of trying to mess up things that works that potentially enhances the top line.
Baxterman
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2017
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Did I say you?
I said if anyone is getting attacked in this thread it is Monahan.
Which a. means I don't really think anyone is getting attacked but I would say someone saying he is the 4th best C on this team is much worse than anything said about Bennett and b. you are not the thread so it includes other comments.
Dack
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2014
- 3,915
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http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1617/CGY/monahse94/wrap
http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1617/CGY/bennesa96/wrap
Monahan's getting far better linemates in that lineup than Bennett got last season. If that's two duds what are Brouwer and Chiasson?
Monahan is paid like a first line player if we're worried about him not being able to create without Gaudreau than there is an issue.
http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1617/CGY/bennesa96/wrap
Monahan's getting far better linemates in that lineup than Bennett got last season. If that's two duds what are Brouwer and Chiasson?
Monahan is paid like a first line player if we're worried about him not being able to create without Gaudreau than there is an issue.
Baxterman
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2017
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Who is worried about him not being able to create without Gaudreau other than haters like OKG and WhiskeyDevil?
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Pirate King Luffy
Ferkland
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
In which case none of these combinations was successful, which gets back to my point.
This is the line-up they should try except move Jankowski to Backlunds wing and have Stajan centering Brouwer and Lazar.
- Apr 27, 2005
- 33,647
- 29,852
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
So much poor reading comprehension on these boards sometimes. Let's clarify:
1) Saying Monahan is the fourth best center on this team is not equal to saying he is a 4th line center in the NHL. Last year Patrick Marleau was the fourth best center on his team behind Couture, Pavelski, and Thornton. He was still a first unit power play staple, a top six forward, a 27 goal scorer, and a natural center.
2) Saying Jankowski is a better center than Monahan may seem outlandish to anyone who has primarily watched the NHL Flames, but when you have watched both to any decent extent you can pick up on subtleties in how they approach situations, how and how quickly they react to different situations, their composure in the defensive and neutral zones, their puck distribution, their awareness, their puck skills, etc. You can handwave it all you like as guesswork, but "guessing" the other way isn't exactly a show of rebuttal - it's just your guess. It doesn't even mean Jankowski is a better offensive player. Backlund is a better center than Tyler Bozak. Who is more productive? Bozak. Annually.
3) Saying Monahan had to carry his linemates defensively is just disingenuous. Gaudreau is a master on the breakout, solid positionally. What he lacks in size is something that could be made up with Brodie et al's first pass and guess what Bennett's first pass out of the zone is one kf his strengths moreso than Monahan who generally can be erratic with the puck.Ferland while still not elite defensively is an excellent breakout winger who makes strong plays along the walls and reads leakouts well. While he might make a few mistakes he is overall a boon to his line defensively. And Monahan played more minutes with the top 4 than Bennett did, and less with the Engelland pair than Bennett did. Versteeg is an average defensive player, no real unique tools to give him an edge. Brouwer is awful, 8/10 plays in all three zones die on his stick. Chiasson was good defensively... Monahan and Bennett played almost equal minutes with him last year with Bennett having better results than Monahan with Chiasson on the ice. Quality of competition is a non factor - Monahan and Bennett faced almost identical QoC last year - below Backlund and above Stajan.
4) Why would someone "worried" about Monahan away from Gaudreau want to separate Monahan from Gaudreau? Any idea how silly that sounds given Monahan has a 6.35 million dollar salary? Monahan should be separated from Gaudreau to bolster our first line. His slower tempo shoot first style is also better suited to slower tempo linemates like Versteeg, whereaa Bennett gets frustrated with linemates who are twenty feet behind the play.
5) Appealing to Monahan being "proven" in his role doesn't push the needle for me. "Proven" would be a WCF appearance as our leading point getter in all situations. Ryan Getzlaf is proven in his role. Monahan is simply slotted in his - to me he is as unproven as Bennett or Jankowski with the only difference being raw point totals which are... dependant on role and can't be compared apples to apples if the roles are not the same.
6) None of the above means I hate Sean Monahan. That is the worst nonsense that gets tossed out by reactionaries. I LIKE SEAN MONAHAN. I think Sean Monahan took some huge individual strides last year. I argued Sean Monahan could be top ten in scoring this year in a main board thread a week ago. I just think we have three awesome players who are better at the positional duties of center, two of which are the same age as Monahan or younger and one who was foirth in Selke voting last year. Don't get your knickers in a knot because I want to see our roster optimized for best performance instead of being complacent.
1) Saying Monahan is the fourth best center on this team is not equal to saying he is a 4th line center in the NHL. Last year Patrick Marleau was the fourth best center on his team behind Couture, Pavelski, and Thornton. He was still a first unit power play staple, a top six forward, a 27 goal scorer, and a natural center.
2) Saying Jankowski is a better center than Monahan may seem outlandish to anyone who has primarily watched the NHL Flames, but when you have watched both to any decent extent you can pick up on subtleties in how they approach situations, how and how quickly they react to different situations, their composure in the defensive and neutral zones, their puck distribution, their awareness, their puck skills, etc. You can handwave it all you like as guesswork, but "guessing" the other way isn't exactly a show of rebuttal - it's just your guess. It doesn't even mean Jankowski is a better offensive player. Backlund is a better center than Tyler Bozak. Who is more productive? Bozak. Annually.
3) Saying Monahan had to carry his linemates defensively is just disingenuous. Gaudreau is a master on the breakout, solid positionally. What he lacks in size is something that could be made up with Brodie et al's first pass and guess what Bennett's first pass out of the zone is one kf his strengths moreso than Monahan who generally can be erratic with the puck.Ferland while still not elite defensively is an excellent breakout winger who makes strong plays along the walls and reads leakouts well. While he might make a few mistakes he is overall a boon to his line defensively. And Monahan played more minutes with the top 4 than Bennett did, and less with the Engelland pair than Bennett did. Versteeg is an average defensive player, no real unique tools to give him an edge. Brouwer is awful, 8/10 plays in all three zones die on his stick. Chiasson was good defensively... Monahan and Bennett played almost equal minutes with him last year with Bennett having better results than Monahan with Chiasson on the ice. Quality of competition is a non factor - Monahan and Bennett faced almost identical QoC last year - below Backlund and above Stajan.
4) Why would someone "worried" about Monahan away from Gaudreau want to separate Monahan from Gaudreau? Any idea how silly that sounds given Monahan has a 6.35 million dollar salary? Monahan should be separated from Gaudreau to bolster our first line. His slower tempo shoot first style is also better suited to slower tempo linemates like Versteeg, whereaa Bennett gets frustrated with linemates who are twenty feet behind the play.
5) Appealing to Monahan being "proven" in his role doesn't push the needle for me. "Proven" would be a WCF appearance as our leading point getter in all situations. Ryan Getzlaf is proven in his role. Monahan is simply slotted in his - to me he is as unproven as Bennett or Jankowski with the only difference being raw point totals which are... dependant on role and can't be compared apples to apples if the roles are not the same.
6) None of the above means I hate Sean Monahan. That is the worst nonsense that gets tossed out by reactionaries. I LIKE SEAN MONAHAN. I think Sean Monahan took some huge individual strides last year. I argued Sean Monahan could be top ten in scoring this year in a main board thread a week ago. I just think we have three awesome players who are better at the positional duties of center, two of which are the same age as Monahan or younger and one who was foirth in Selke voting last year. Don't get your knickers in a knot because I want to see our roster optimized for best performance instead of being complacent.
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OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Mr Snrub
I like the way Snrub thinks!
- Oct 12, 2016
- 5,713
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People are just excited because Bennett had a great game and we're expecting big things from him this year. I'd be willing to see Bennett play a bit more with Gaudreau but people are willing to break up one of the few sure things this team has because of a good preseason game against a terrible Coyotes roster.
Lunatik
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2012
- 56,247
- 8,381
So let me see if I understand this.....
Player 1: Is 22 and has single season career highs of 31 goals and 63 points.
Player 2: Is 21 and has career totals of 31 goals and 63 points.
And people actually think player 2 should be the number 1 center?
I don't think I have the words to describe the levels of stupidity at play here.
Player 1: Is 22 and has single season career highs of 31 goals and 63 points.
Player 2: Is 21 and has career totals of 31 goals and 63 points.
And people actually think player 2 should be the number 1 center?
I don't think I have the words to describe the levels of stupidity at play here.
JurassicTunga
it is what it is
- Mar 21, 2010
- 7,601
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sign Jagr
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Monahan - Jagrrrrr
Versteeg - Backlund - Frolik
Lazar/ - Jankowski - Brouwer
\Stajan
Bennett/Monahan can be swapped. Whichever. I'd still prefer to have Monahan and Gaudreau. Bennett will still get good line mates on the 2nd line. Rather than playing with Brouwer and whoever else.
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Tkachuk - Monahan - Jagrrrrr
Versteeg - Backlund - Frolik
Lazar/ - Jankowski - Brouwer
\Stajan
Bennett/Monahan can be swapped. Whichever. I'd still prefer to have Monahan and Gaudreau. Bennett will still get good line mates on the 2nd line. Rather than playing with Brouwer and whoever else.
