Monahan vs. Bennett in a steel cage chutes and ladders match!

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

1 preseason game success seems like a poor reason to break up something that has worked for 3 NHL seasons now.

By that logic we'd never see Ferland on the top line either.

Monahan has worked on the top line, but I think Bennett could work much better, and give the team a bunch more depth.

Click to read more...

 

[Baxterman]

By that logic we'd never see Ferland on the top line either.

Monahan has worked on the top line, but I think Bennett could work much better, and give the team a bunch more depth.

I would be fine if we never see Ferland on the top line again. And he was replacing a bunch of guys that didn't work that well in the role.

Bennett has 63 points in 160 games, Monahan has more points in two individual seasons. I love Bennett and think he has a lot of potential but to say that he could work much better than Monahan in that spot is a huge stretch at this point.

I would like to see him do more of this when the Flames aren't playing Phoenix in the pre-season.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I would be fine if we never see Ferland on the top line again. And he was replacing a bunch of guys that didn't work that well in the role.

Bennett has 63 points in 160 games, Monahan has more points in two individual seasons. I love Bennett and think he has a lot of potential but to say that he could work much better than Monahan in that spot is a huge stretch at this point.

I would like to see him do more of this when the Flames aren't playing Phoenix in the pre-season.

Well he hasn't exactly gotten the chance to play with the type of players that Monahan has on any level of consistency.

 

[Baxterman]

Well he hasn't exactly gotten the chance to play with the type of players that Monahan has on any level of consistency.

If he had there is zero reason to think he would put up close to, let alone similar, stats.

 

[DFF]

Question then is does he or Stone move to the left side, or does Stone not make the team?

There is no chance of Stone not making the team

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

With the way Jankowski has played, where would you slot him? I'd rather him be in the middle 6 on the wing opposed to 4th line C.

1)Backlund
2)Bennett
3)Jankowski

Put Monahan on the wing

If he had there is zero reason to think he would put up close to, let alone similar, stats.

Zero reasons?



Better at 17 - Bennett
Better at 18 - Bennett
Better at 19 - Bennett
Better at 20 - the guy who played with Byron / Gaudreau / Hudler instead of Troy ****ing Brouwer

 

[Baxterman]

1)Backlund
2)Bennett
3)Jankowski

Put Monahan on the wing



Zero reasons?



Better at 17 - Bennett
Better at 18 - Bennett
Better at 19 - Bennett
Better at 20 - the guy who played with Byron / Gaudreau / Hudler instead of Troy ****ing Brouwer

Why put your best center on the wing and not the guy who has struggled there so far or the rookie who will be over his head if given 3rd line minutes?


And it's great that Bennett was good as a youngster (although not sure how he was better during his injury season) but this is the NHL and so far Monaghan has been much better and not because who he has played with.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

1)Backlund
2)Bennett
3)Jankowski

Put Monahan on the wing



Zero reasons?



Better at 17 - Bennett
Better at 18 - Bennett
Better at 19 - Bennett
Better at 20 - the guy who played with Byron / Gaudreau / Hudler instead of Troy ****ing Brouwer

Even the year Bennett missed almost entirely due to injury he was better than Monahan?

Oh boy!

You sure are a smart cookie OKG and we are lucky to have you.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Even the year Bennett missed almost entirely due to injury he was better than Monahan?

Uh Bennett at 18 was the best player at young stars on a team with Gaudreau and Ferland, the second best player in the OHL after McDavid, and added 3 goals / 2 assists in 12 NHL games.

Or do I need to go bring up the 18 year old OHL numbers of the two players?

Your conceited little cheap shot speaks more about yourself than it does about me.

EDIT, I went and looked them up

Center | Age | OHL PPG
Bennett | 18 | 1.8
Monahan | 18 | 1.345

Not sure how anyone with eyes could argue 18 year old Monahan was better.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Uh Bennett at 18 was the best player at young stars on a team with Gaudreau and Ferland, the second best player in the OHL after McDavid, and added 3 goals / 2 assists in 12 NHL games.

Or do I need to go bring up the 18 year old OHL numbers of the two players?

Your conceited little cheap shot speaks more about yourself than it does about me.

EDIT, I went and looked them up

Center | Age | OHL PPG
Bennett | 18 | 1.8
Monahan | 18 | 1.345

Not sure how anyone with eyes could argue 18 year old Monahan was better.

Monahan's team was all star calibre too!

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Uh Bennett at 18 was the best player at young stars on a team with Gaudreau and Ferland, the second best player in the OHL after McDavid, and added 3 goals / 2 assists in 12 NHL games.

Or do I need to go bring up the 18 year old OHL numbers of the two players?

Your conceited little cheap shot speaks more about yourself than it does about me.

EDIT, I went and looked them up

Center | Age | OHL PPG
Bennett | 18 | 1.8
Monahan | 18 | 1.345

Not sure how anyone with eyes could argue 18 year old Monahan was better.

Yes because the quality of the team the two players played for is totally comparable.

Some might even say its like the difference between playing with Gaudreau, Byron and Hudler or playing with Brouwer.

Plus Young Stars means SOOOOO much. Just like how McDonald is going to be the next Price based off of last year?

You grasp at ridiculous straws to try and validate outlandish statements that have no bearing in reality. I can accept arguments that Backlund is the better complete center than Monahan, but Bennett and Jankowski combined at this point at time don't even hold Monahan's jock strap, until proven otherwise. Could they become better? Sure. Maybe. Not even close to saying it's a certainty though. But to say that a guy who has a single NHL game to his name is better than Monahan is utterly ridiculous.

I look forward to your reaction when Kulak is waived.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

OKG, the only conceited comment in here is saying that Monahan is our 4th best C. That is actually an offensive thing to say.

I know it’s your opinion to play him at wing, but saying such a thing is flat out laughable. Monahan in the 2nd half of last year was in contention for team MVP with Backs. I love Bennett as much as you (perhaps more now that he has a beard), but that doesn’t take away a single thing from Monahan. Teams can have multiple top players and we’re lucky to have all the C’s we do. Jankowski while possessing a ton of talent, has not proven anything to say he’s ahead of Monahan and the same goes for Bennett. Until Bennett and Janks show they’re better than Monahan, they aren’t.

 

[JPeeper]

It's hard to argue with people when they think Monahan is a 3rd line winger; like what are you supposed to say because that statement itself defies all logic and reason.

Like Bennett is a better defensive player than Monahan? What are you watching? Monahan plays defense for his entire line when he's out there and often has to play for his defense pairing too (he was often given Engelland/Wideman/Bart late last year), and he still gets the puck out.

It's criminal how underrated Monahan is in general on the HF boards; like I sort of understand the general HF people hating Monahan, they clearly never watch him (Bo Horvat is better??? in what ****ing world?); but how can Flames fans think Monahan is a 3rd line player?

It's lunacy.

 

[Skobel24]

It's hard to argue with people when they think Monahan is a 3rd line winger; like what are you supposed to say because that statement itself defies all logic and reason.

Like Bennett is a better defensive player than Monahan? What are you watching? Monahan plays defense for his entire line when he's out there and often has to play for his defense pairing too (he was often given Engelland/Wideman/Bart late last year), and he still gets the puck out.

It's criminal how underrated Monahan is in general on the HF boards; like I sort of understand the general HF people hating Monahan, they clearly never watch him (Bo Horvat is better??? in what ****ing world?); but how can Flames fans think Monahan is a 3rd line player?

It's lunacy.

It's think it's just the one fan who thinks he's a 3rd line winger, but even then I think he just wants him slotted on the 3rd line for balance.

 

[DFF]

I agreed that Bennett needs to be given opportunity to prove that he is a top pick.

Monahan is not a 3rd line of anything. Even if they convert him to wing. He is a proven 1st line winger for his goal scoring ability alone.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If he had there is zero reason to think he would put up close to, let alone similar, stats.

Zero reason to believe? I mean, aside from the huge boost we've seen other players get from getting sustained playing time with Gaudreau (Monahan included).

Hudler (had a career year of 76 points at 30/31 years old, 25 points above his career average and 22 points over his prior season)
Jooris
Granlund
Ferland

We've also seen first hand how Bennett's production can increase / fall with more ice time with better players. As a 19 year old rookie he put up 18g and 36p in 77gp playing with Backlund - better production than we saw from 19 year old Monahan.

Also consider some of the chemistry Bennett and Gaudreau have shown at times - connecting for some excellent plays / goals. We saw more of that last night.

That line had 3g 3a 6p +6 with 15 SOG, even though they only played a total of ~15-16 minutes. The scary thing is they could have easily had 2-3 more goals. I think at the very least, that warrants a longer look at keeping them together, right? What am I missing?

I mean, if we truly believe Monahan could still be a 25+ goal 55+ point player on his own line, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to spread out the offense?

Versteeg - Monahan - Brouwer - 50-65 goals
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik - 50-65 goals
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland - 60-70 goals
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar - 20-30 goals

You could probably count on another 30-40 from the D core. That gives you anywhere from 210 - 270 goals, probably ending somewhere around 230-240. That should be enough to get into the playoffs so long as Smith doesn't crap the bed.

 

[Baxterman]

Zero reason to believe? I mean, aside from the huge boost we've seen other players get from getting sustained playing time with Gaudreau (Monahan included).

Hard to say if Monahan is getting a huge boost from Gaudreau since we have sen Monahan produce without him. It is likely a case of bother players benefiting playing with each other.

And even if there is a boost from playing with Gaudreau that still doesn't explain why it would be better than Monahan/Gaudreau.

We've also seen first hand how Bennett's production can increase / fall with more ice time with better players. As a 19 year old rookie he put up 18g and 36p in 77gp playing with Backlund - better production than we saw from 19 year old Monahan.

Not really better 22-12-34 for Monahan in less games so pretty much similar at best with better linemates.

Also consider some of the chemistry Bennett and Gaudreau have shown at times - connecting for some excellent plays / goals. We saw more of that last night.

In the preseason against Phoenix. Also consider some of the chemistry that Monahan and Gaudreau have had against NHL talent.

That line had 3g 3a 6p +6 with 15 SOG, even though they only played a total of ~15-16 minutes. The scary thing is they could have easily had 2-3 more goals. I think at the very least, that warrants a longer look at keeping them together, right? What am I missing?

You are missing that that was one preseason game against the Phoenix Coyotes. I am sure I could post some pretty nice stats of Gaudreau/Monahan at the NHL level.

I mean, if we truly believe Monahan could still be a 25+ goal 55+ point player on his own line, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to spread out the offense?

Versteeg - Monahan - Brouwer - 50-65 goals
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik - 50-65 goals
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland - 60-70 goals
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar - 20-30 goals

You could probably count on another 30-40 from the D core. That gives you anywhere from 210 - 270 goals, probably ending somewhere around 230-240. That should be enough to get into the playoffs so long as Smith doesn't crap the bed.

That is a huge difference from saying that Bennett could produce as well as Monahan on that line.

I think that Gaudreau-Bennett-Ferland line gets killed defensively so you would have to watch the match-ups they get and I am not sure you want to have to limit Gaudreaus minutes. Also would not have Brouwer on the top line as that kills any offense that line would have. I would put Tkachuk with Monahan and Versteeg if spreading out the offense is the plan.

It could work but I am not sure it is any better than a more traditional line-up that we are likely to see this year.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I’d be open to playing Chucky with Monahan, but I feel like he’s destined to play with Bennett. He’s just as smart and just as skilled as Gaudreau, their playing styles just match better is all.

Take Janko and give him Tkachuk’s spot with Backlund and that line won’t miss a beat.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Hard to say if Monahan is getting a huge boost from Gaudreau since we have sen Monahan produce without him. It is likely a case of bother players benefiting playing with each other.

And even if there is a boost from playing with Gaudreau that still doesn't explain why it would be better than Monahan/Gaudreau.

It's actually not hard to say at all. The numbers unequivocally point to Monahan getting a significant bump from playing with Gaudreau.

Not really better 22-12-34 for Monahan in less games so pretty much similar at best with better linemates.

No, it is better. 36p in 77gp is better production than 34p in 75gp, especially when you consider that Bennett was getting almost 50 seconds less of ice time (meaning he played about 32 minutes less, but still scored more points). Monahan also spent most of his time with Jiri Hudler and Joe Colborne that year, so its hard to say he had worse linemates than Bennett who played most of the year with Backlund and Colborne.

In the preseason against Phoenix. Also consider some of the chemistry that Monahan and Gaudreau have had against NHL talent.

You are missing that that was one preseason game against the Phoenix Coyotes. I am sure I could post some pretty nice stats of Gaudreau/Monahan at the NHL level.

You said "there is zero reason to think he would put up close to, let alone similar, stats." I am giving you some reasons to think that Bennett actually could put up similar numbers. Bennett has certainly shown the ability to create offense when paired with Johnny, whether its in the preseason or in the regular season.

Yea, its one preseason game, but with the way they performed wouldn't it make you think that it might be worth trying it out again?

That is a huge difference from saying that Bennett could produce as well as Monahan on that line.

Ok, but I never said that. I am saying it might be worth trying that line out.

I think that Gaudreau-Bennett-Ferland line gets killed defensively so you would have to watch the match-ups they get and I am not sure you want to have to limit Gaudreaus minutes.

Why would that line get killed defensively? Monahan isn't exactly a great defensive center (though he made some big strides last year) and they seemed to do just fine. His foot speed is a big problem, and he's really not that strong on the puck (especially for his size. I actually see Bennett as the better defensive player, mostly because of his quickness and ability to carry the puck.

-----------------------

This is the problem with some fans. Me recommending that Bennett should take Monahan's spot next to Gaudreau is not an attack on Monahan, but certain fans can't help but take it that way. So then they go into "defend Monahan" mode, and sometimes even attack Bennett.

I kind of had the feeling that if the Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland line was ever successfully assembled that we'd quickly see Monahan defenders out in full force to discredit their performance.

 

[CraigsList]

Much of the NHL is about confidence. Gaudreau has great chemistry with any center honestly. And Bennett had a really, really good game with Gaudreau. Not to mention, he sticks up when someone does something physical to Gaudreau. That’s my main reason why I think Bennett should stick being with Gaudreau. Monahan and Gaudreau can play on the PP together.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Versteeg
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Frolik - Backlund - Brouwer
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Much of the NHL is about confidence. Gaudreau has great chemistry with any center honestly. And Bennett had a really, really good game with Gaudreau. Not to mention, he sticks up when someone does something physical to Gaudreau. That’s my main reason why I think Bennett should stick being with Gaudreau. Monahan and Gaudreau can play on the PP together.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Versteeg
Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland
Frolik - Backlund - Brouwer
Stajan - Jankowski - Lazar

That's a pretty sharp looking lineup.

 

[Skobel24]

Just started thinking about a line of

Tkachuk - Bennett - Gaudreau

I wanna see it.


Tkachuk - Bennett - Gaudreau
Brouwer - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Monahan - Ferland

Could move Janks down and put Versteeg there instead

 

[Baxterman]

It's actually not hard to say at all. The numbers unequivocally point to Monahan getting a significant bump from plaaying with Gaudreau.

The numbers show that as an 18 year old without Gaudreau Monahan scored 22 goals. So yes it is hard to say.

No, it is better. 36p in 77gp is better production than 34p in 75gp, especially when you consider that Bennett was getting almost 50 seconds less of ice time (meaning he played about 32 minutes less, but still scored more points). Monahan also spent most of his time with Jiri Hudler and Joe Colborne that year, so its hard to say he had worse linemates than Bennett who played most of the year with Backlund and Colborne.

With the 22 goals to 18 no it isn't better.

You said "there is zero reason to think he would put up close to, let alone similar, stats." I am giving you some reasons to think that Bennett actually could put up similar numbers. Bennett has certainly shown the ability to create offense when paired with Johnny, whether its in the preseason or in the regular season.

Execpt you didn't give any reasons. One preseason game isn't a reason.

Yea, its one preseason game, but with the way they performed wouldn't it make you think that it might be worth trying it out again?

If Monahan- Gaudreau were struggling then sure but they aren't so it seems like breaking up something that is working to try something that might work but has no reason to think will improve anything.

Ok, but I never said that. I am saying it might be worth trying that line out.

Yes you did. You said "I think Bennett could work much better". So i guess you are right you didn't say similar you said better.

Why would that line get killed defensively? Monahan isn't exactly a great defensive center (though he made some big strides last year) and they seemed to do just fine. His foot speed is a big problem, and he's really not that strong on the puck (especially for his size. I actually see Bennett as the better defensive player, mostly because of his quickness and ability to carry the puck.

Monahan is a better defender than Bennett no question right now. Might Bennett turn out to be better yes. But Bennett is still learning positioning as a center in the NHL and too often loses his man and is not in the right spot defensively.

This is the problem with some fans. Me recommending that Bennett should take Monahan's spot next to Gaudreau is not an attack on Monahan, but certain fans can't help but take it that way. So then they go into "defend Monahan" mode, and sometimes even attack Bennett.

I kind of had the feeling that if the Gaudreau - Bennett - Ferland line was ever successfully assembled that we'd quickly see Monahan defenders out in full force to discredit their performance.

Not at all. Bennett is my second favorite Flame there is no need to try and attack him, which I have seen zero people do in this thread or on the site.

I think you are so quick to want to discredit Monahan that you are now looking at ways to disminish his role and accomplishments. If anyone is being "attacked" it is Monahan.

Monahan and Gaudreau have been a very successful pairing so far in their careers together. Bennett has struggled so far in his young career. In what world does it make sense to break up the guys who are working well together to put another guy on the line in the hopes that he might be able to be as good as Monahan despite not giving any indication that he can do that at the NHL level?

My problem with you recommending Bennett with Gaudreau is that it doesn't make sense. It has nothing to do with having to defend Monahan.

 

[Baxterman]

Just started thinking about a line of

Tkachuk - Bennett - Gaudreau

I wanna see it.


Tkachuk - Bennett - Gaudreau
Brouwer - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Monahan - Ferland

Could move Janks down and put Versteeg there instead

Are we so desperate to jump start Bennett's offense that Monahan is now stuck with two duds just to try and create some offense for Bennett?

I really don't get the need to continually minimize Monahan's role on the team after he has been the clear best forward for the past 3 years and with the production he has put up.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Are we so desperate to jump start Bennett's offense that Monahan is now stuck with two duds just to try and create some offense for Bennett?

I really don't get the need to continually minimize Monahan's role on the team after he has been the clear best forward for the past 3 years and with the production he has put up.

That is not even close to true lol.