Monahan + Gaudreau vs MacKinnon + Kucherov

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Which duo do you take going forward?

Click to read more...

 

[rent free]

this isn't even funny

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is this in response to a discussion from another thread? Because I don't get why this would even be a debate.

 

[elmaco]

MacK + Kuch A I N E C

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Good poll. Have to go with the second duo

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Sweep...

 

[Kcb12345]

Glad I got to vote before this gets closed

 

[Flameshomer]

Duo that actually exists vs duo that is imaginary and assembled to make a point. Hm I wonder who will win!

I don't understand why Kuch needed to be dragged in, Mackinnon-Rantanen would have been a perfectly acceptable counter comparison and probably would have made for a good poll. This poll is stupid.

 

[ESH]

I feel like you probably didn't need to ask this to know the answer

 

[SmellOfVictory]

For our next vote: Benn and Seguin versus McDavid and Ovechkin, because it just makes sense.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Also, does everyone realize this is a career year for MacKinnon? Same as when Eberle was going to be a franchise player because he could sneeze at a puck and it would go in the opposing net for a season.

edit: And just to be clear for anyone who gets cranky about this: I'm not saying MacKinnon is bad. I'm saying he's probably not going to be an Art Ross challenger on an annual basis. This is just based on the fact that this same thing has happened to dozens of players in the past, and almost none of them repeated it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Also, does everyone realize this is a career year for MacKinnon? Same as when Eberle was going to be a franchise player because he could sneeze at a puck and it would go in the opposing net for a season.

You make it sound like it's a foregone conclusion that that's the case. Maybe it ends up being his "career year". But it could simply be a player finally reaching his potential that people thought was there after his tremendous rookie campaign.

 

[cgf]

You make it sound like it's a foregone conclusion that that's the case. Maybe it ends up being his "career year". But it could simply be a player finally reaching his potential that people thought was there after his tremendous rookie campaign.

Nah, he's 23 next season. That's over the hill. It's absolutely unheard of for a player not to fall apart once they hit that ripe old age of 22.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

lol

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Nah, he's 23 next season. That's over the hill. It's absolutely unheard of for a player not to fall apart once they hit that ripe old age of 22.

People said exactly the same thing about Eberle. The nice thing about massive jumps in shooting percentage is they almost 100% of the time regress to the norm. Especially in a player who's been in the league for four seasons already. Or do you think Duchene was stealing all of MacKinnon's multivitamins while he was in Colorado?

 

[cgf]

I really love that the only vote for Gaudreau-Monahan is from a poster with such a perfectly apt name.

 

[cgf]

People said exactly the same thing about Eberle. The nice thing about massive jumps in shooting percentage is they almost 100% of the time regress to the norm. Especially in a player who's been in the league for four seasons already.

It's not like MacK's sh% is unrealistic. It's improved, but he's improved & his linemates have improved, so the shots he's taking have improved and his ability to bury his shots has improved. His sh% moving up is only natural. Look at the rest of the league's top scorers and their sh%, MacK's doesn't stand out. This isn't like Wild Bill's 40 goal season where he's shooting something insane like 30%.

Plus Eberle's problem is that he's such a soft, perimeter player, not his skill. So it's an odd comparison in the first place.

I think that it's multiple factors, 1 is that it's not unheard of for players to break out at 22. Another is that the team around him has improved and that top line has had amazing chemistry since being put together. A third is that MacKinnon has always thrived under pressure, so feeling more ownership of the team has helped him tap into his top form more consistently.

So no, Matt wasn't stealing MacK's vitamins, but he may have stepped on his toes a little, while MacK was still developing, and the blueline was a lot bigger of a mess than it is now that Barrie is playing like a legit top pairing guy, Zadorov is playing great, Girard is a magician and Nemeth is a decent stay at home guy & PK-specialist.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

It's not like MacK's sh% is unrealistic. It's improved, but he's improved & his linemates have improved, so the shots he's taking have improved and his ability to bury his shots has improved. His sh% moving up is only natural.

Look at the rest of the league's top scorers and their sh%, MacK's doesn't stand out. This isn't like Wild Bill's 40 goal season where he's shooting something insane like 30%.

Plus Eberle's problem is that he's such a soft, perimeter player, not his skill. So it's an odd comparison in the first place.

MacK's shooting percentage isn't outrageously high for the league, this is true. But it's a full 50% higher than his career average, and he's currently top 50 in sh% this season, while previously he was in the 200-300 range. I'm not saying it's impossible that his shooting ability has improved so much that he's scoring on 50% more of his shots than before, but it's insanely unlikely. If a player has only played a season or two in the league? I can see the possibility. If they never got PP time and now they're used as a PP weapon? Sure. But established players raaaaaaaaarely see a consistently repeatable large sh% increase; so rarely that I can't think of a single player who's actually done it.

And Eberle wasn't a "soft perimeter player" when he had his career season; he was a "clutch sniper." He scored tons of goals from the slot and spent quite a bit of time there.

Also a note on MacKinnon: I'm not saying this is blind luck; he seems like he's playing extremely well. But I really do believe this is mostly an extended hot streak. Or maybe Duchene was stealing his mojo.

 

[cgf]

MacK's shooting percentage isn't outrageously high for the league, this is true. But it's a full 50% higher than his career average, and he's currently top 50 in sh% this season, while previously he was in the 200-300 range. I'm not saying it's impossible that his shooting ability has improved so much that he's scoring on 50% more of his shots than before, but it's insanely unlikely. If a player has only played a season or two in the league? I can see the possibility. If they never got PP time and now they're used as a PP weapon? Sure. But established players raaaaaaaaarely see a consistently repeatable large sh% increase; so rarely that I can't think of a single player who's actually done it.

And Eberle wasn't a "soft perimeter player" when he had his career season; he was a "clutch sniper." He scored tons of goals from the slot and spent quite a bit of time there.

Before this breakout MacK did everything too fast and so ended up taking a lot of garbage shots after peeling off from a rush to find that he didn't have a team-mate in sight. So it's less about his shot improving dramatically than it is about the shot's he's taking improving so dramatically. I mean the kid was known for his shot in junior and has scored some absolute snipes throughout his career when he was in good shooting positions. So it's not like he wasn't expected to be a much better shooter than he has been statistically in the past.

Though his shot has taken another step and his confidence in it is sky high now. So that is part of it to. The goals he's scoring every game now aren't lucky bounces or breakdowns that he's capitalizing on. They are bombs that he is lasering into the back of the net.

I was always an eberle skeptic, even during his massive season, so meh. Got into enough arguments with oilers fans at the time to have zero interest in re-hashing it now.

PS his PP usage has changed massively. He used to play up high on the right with everything being funneled to Iginla in the ovi-spot...which is why our PP was so terrible before this year. But we fired our PP coach and the new guy has MacK on the left half board where Rantanen & Barrie can feed him now that he's the unit's primary read.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The duo without Monahan.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Which duo do you take going forward?

If you're going to make a revenge poll, at least include my favorite team lol.

 

[22FUTON9]

So are you trying to start the Monahan>Mackinnon thing again?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Also, does everyone realize this is a career year for MacKinnon? Same as when Eberle was going to be a franchise player because he could sneeze at a puck and it would go in the opposing net for a season.

edit: And just to be clear for anyone who gets cranky about this: I'm not saying MacKinnon is bad. I'm saying he's probably not going to be an Art Ross challenger on an annual basis. This is just based on the fact that this same thing has happened to dozens of players in the past, and almost none of them repeated it.

Eberle never had a season even close to this good

 

[garyturner3]

To be the person that voted for the flames duo here......

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Wtf is this supposed to be?