MLB off-season News & Notes thread (Phils sign Kingery to 6 year deal)

[Voight]

The players were the ones who agreed to this CBA. Clark obviously didn't tell them the new tax penalties were going to have every team to cut down on salary.

 

[bleedblue1223]

How many teams would we classify as actually tanking? Miami for sure. You can possibly make the case for others, but it's not like there are a bunch of teams slashing salary like crazy. It's not like we have a handful of real contenders and every other team is trying to win the top draft pick.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[GordonGecko]

Things are heating up...but not with FA signings

lol @ threatens the "integrity of the game". He means threatens the integrity of players getting that next limited edition Lamborghini and new custom Versace suit. Anybody with talent is going to get signed, it's just going to be at a more reasonable cost. Maybe the players should start thinking about paying their agents less

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Because fans want their teams to win and paying players a bajillion dollars doesn't help towards that. There are internal caps in place as well as a luxury tax that teams can't/don't want to go over so the more you spend on an overpaird Eric Hosmer it means the less the team has to on other players to improve the team. And it's hard to feel sympathy for players turning down 9 figure guaranteed salaries that were already probably going to be bad contracts because they want more.

Bingo. Fans want to see their favorite team's top prospects and young future stars (and current stars of course) who are not on crippling contracts. Term has become just as or more important as we hate to see our favorite teams have to eat a huge sum to dump contracts. Fans want to see their 23-year old star that they have for the next 5 seasons rather than the 32 year-old making $20 mil a year hitting .230 with 3 years left.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I also get annoyed when either the owners/MLB or players/MLBPA try to act like they are acting in the best interest of the fans.

 

[hockeykicker]

5 days til pitchers and catchers report

 

[nilan30]

I agree with these owners not willing to pay as ridiculous of salaries to these guys. I'd agree with them even more if they'd pass on some of these savings to people buying tickets. But I doubt that will happen.

 

[robert terwilliger]

Well none of this answers my question about why Hosmer's market collapsing seems to please fans. Is it because we're made he asked for too much initially? I just went through a salary negotiation, I asked for a number I never expected to get and met in the middle, why should I be pissed if Hosmer did it? Like, did he ask for 8/200 and expect to sign for something like 7/150 or 6/135 and then those offers never even materialized? I don't really know why I should cheer against him getting that.

as someone who is a fan of one of the teams that hosmer was rumored to for a while, i have no issue with him getting the money. i just didn't want my team paying him 23 million a year when that money can go elsewhere.

 

[NJDevs26]

How many teams would we classify as actually tanking? Miami for sure. You can possibly make the case for others, but it's not like there are a bunch of teams slashing salary like crazy. It's not like we have a handful of real contenders and every other team is trying to win the top draft pick.

It depends on your definition of tanking. A ton of teams are rebuilding. The White Sox have been tanking for a couple years now.

 

[robert terwilliger]

the last two world series champions tanked pretty openly.

the pa forgot to get any language w/r/t tanking in the most recent cba.

up next: the owners get their international draft. tony clark gets each dugout an extra bucket of bubble gum.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[GordonGecko]

poor baby, only offered $120M, What an insult

maybe we can launch a gofundme?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

So, JD Martinez being offered 5/120 would put him behind only Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols in terms of AAV for position players i think. Justin Upton who's the same age just signed an extension less than that and is coming off an great year as well. However, JD, while an excellent hitter is a bad fielder and base runner so his positional flexibility isn't good at all and if he's not hitting he's not useful.

Like I get it. He's 30 and this is his big money deal. If he signs 5/120 he knows he's not getting anywhere near the same deal when he's an FA again at 35. He'll likely just get 1 or maybe 2 year offers in the high teens so he wants an 8 year/200 million monster contact that will inevitably become an albatross the team that signs him half way through. Well, sorry bud. That's just not gonna happen anymore, nor should it be expected that teams will be lining up to sign you to a deal that is eventually going to hamstring them in a few years.

 

[Voight]

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't think anyone is under the assumption that the owners aren't hella rich and make buckets of money each year. The bigger issue is more that some teams aren't spending the money that they should.

Luxury tax threshold is what, $200 million give or take? I'd like to see more teams spend closer to that to try to compete but that doesn't mean giving Eric Hosmer and JD Martinez stupid deals that will hurt the team in a few years. It probably means bringing up the middle and the floor. Maybe higher AAV on shorter contract but players and agents are always looking for the 7-10 year deal that will ultimately cripple the team signing them. Also for teams that are re-building/re-tooling it doesn't make sense to be making big splashes and wasting your money on players that won't make an overall difference to the team progress.

The system is kind of broken in many ways but without completely overhauling it and getting rid of some long standing systemic issues you kind of have to just work within the framework that is there.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Really, that's their biggest problem? Are they really that worried about public opinion? There are real issues that they should focus on, but this isn't it. Fans are obviously aware of how rich the owners are, we always refer to it as the billionaires arguing with the millionaires.

 

[NJDevs26]

I don’t even know who John Middleton is lol

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Really, that's their biggest problem? Are they really that worried about public opinion? There are real issues that they should focus on, but this isn't it. Fans are obviously aware of how rich the owners are, we always refer to it as the billionaires arguing with the millionaires.

I do think it would be a bit eye opening to see what the profits are for the owners though. Like we can all guess 50 million or 100 million or whatever but to actually see a hard number it would change perceptions somewhat. I'm still of the mindset that both groups are greedy and to blame though.

 

[Voight]

I don’t even know who John Middleton is lol

TBH I think he's using that name as an example.

 

[GordonGecko]

I do think it would be a bit eye opening to see what the profits are for the owners though. Like we can all guess 50 million or 100 million or whatever but to actually see a hard number it would change perceptions somewhat. I'm still of the mindset that both groups are greedy and to blame though.

Most small market teams like the Pirates and Indians probably net 10-30 million per year. Then you have big market teams like the Mets who net $40M+ and the Yankees who push $100M

People forget that revenue splits are revenue splits, teams don't net anything until they pay their stadium costs, travel expenses, staff salary, minor league system costs, etc etc

 

[bleedblue1223]

I do think it would be a bit eye opening to see what the profits are for the owners though. Like we can all guess 50 million or 100 million or whatever but to actually see a hard number it would change perceptions somewhat. I'm still of the mindset that both groups are greedy and to blame though.

It's just a business like any other. I guess my thing is if that is their biggest problem, then they have no understanding of the actual problems. Public opinion means nothing. The fans are still going to spend boatloads of money regardless of public opinion, unless there is a crazy work stoppage, regardless of who starts it.

Work on fixing arbitration. Work on getting players to UFA faster. Working on making it easier for the top prospects to get to the MLB when they are ready, so the clubs aren't playing a game in delaying their arrival. Those are the real issues that the MLBPA needs to focus on.

To me, this just shows that they don't' get it and can't help themselves. The market has changed, now figure out a better way to work in the new market.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Most small market teams like the Pirates and Indians probably net 10-30 million per year. Then you have big market teams like the Mets who net $40M+ and the Yankees who push $100M

People forget that revenue splits are revenue splits, teams don't net anything until they pay their stadium costs, travel expenses, staff salary, minor league system costs, etc etc

It's just a business like any other. I guess my thing is if that is their biggest problem, then they have no understanding of the actual problems. Public opinion means nothing. The fans are still going to spend boatloads of money regardless of public opinion, unless there is a crazy work stoppage, regardless of who starts it.

Work on fixing arbitration. Work on getting players to UFA faster. Working on making it easier for the top prospects to get to the MLB when they are ready, so the clubs aren't playing a game in delaying their arrival. Those are the real issues that the MLBPA needs to focus on.

To me, this just shows that they don't' get it and can't help themselves. The market has changed, now figure out a better way to work in the new market.

Agreed with both of you on this. Just thought it was a bit of an interesting point because you see it in the workplace so much. Employers/Managers have staff bickering about who's making 50 cents more than the other person when the management/owner is pulling in twice as much if not more. Obviously not apples to apples here but I do think it would be interesting to see what each team pulls in.

I think the revenue split system makes sense in theory but in practice it doesn't work because there's not an incentive for the receiving teams to try harder or spend more. But there are systemic issues within the way baseball is marketed which enables this and isn't likely to change. It would be a much longer reply on these thoughts.

 

[hockeykicker]

I don’t even know who John Middleton is lol

phillies owner