MLB commissioner says Rogers Centre 'out of date'

[BigBadBruins7708]

I dont think they would need a new building really.

As long as the skeleton is good, there's no reason why they cant gut it and rebuild the inside and add a new roof system

 

[Spirit of 67]

I dont think they would need a new building really.

As long as the skeleton is good, there's no reason why they cant gut it and rebuild the inside and add a new roof system

Where would the Jays play? I doubt you could do it in 5 months.

Also, at what point is it more cost effective to just build a new one?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't think it's a great secret that the stadium is probably due for replacement.

I can see 2 options:

1) As people have suggested, the Portlands. To me, the lack of transit there is easily remedied with a light rail system out of Union Station and can follow existing, derelict, rail lines. I would like this to be part of an overall strategy for the area. Maybe beaches and some other anchors.

2) The old Ontario Place site. Not sure what's up with that.

One thing to keep in mind when looking for a site is flight paths for Billy Bishop. Though, I think things can be worked out so as not to interfere.

Also, I don't think putting it a Downsview a good idea. Far too often we see stadiums and arenas built outside the downtown core and they don't do well.

As for the weather, I have a hard time believing that we NEED a roof when neither of Minnesota or Detroit (who's weather and ours are basically the same) have them.

I agree with you on all points except that I think that Downsview could work. Like I've said before. The area would need to be developed with more things to do, shops, bars, restaurants... but so does the portlands. The plus for Downsview is that transit to the area is already very good.

Anyway, I don't really care which way they go. New stadium, renovate old stadium. Whatever. Just make it better.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Where would the Jays play? I doubt you could do it in 5 months.

Also, at what point is it more cost effective to just build a new one?

Offhand Coca-Cola Field in Buffalo (home of their Triple-A affiliate, the Buffalo Bisons) could be an option. It'd represent a sizeable loss in capacity (16,907 down from 49,282) so I'm not sure how easily it'd be to accommodate fans but it's probably an option. Could BMO be configured to host baseball? If so, it might work as a short-term alternative. Beyond those two options the closest options I can think of would be Rochester's Frontier Field (13,500), Syracuse's NBT Bank Stadium (11,071), or Comerica Park.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Offhand Coca-Cola Field in Buffalo (home of their Triple-A affiliate, the Buffalo Bisons) could be an option. It'd represent a sizeable loss in capacity (16,907 down from 49,282) so I'm not sure how easily it'd be to accommodate fans but it's probably an option. Could BMO be configured to host baseball? If so, it might work as a short-term alternative. Beyond those two options the closest options I can think of would be Rochester's Frontier Field (13,500), Syracuse's NBT Bank Stadium (11,071), or Comerica Park.

BMO isn't big enough for baseball. I'd be ok with Buffalo for a year but logistically it would be insane.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I don't see large scale renovation viable. If Buffalo was temporarily annexed by Canada, maybe. But playing a whole season in a minor league stadium in another country? League wouldn't go for it. Only way I could see it is if it was a very short timeline, starting in September (so the Jays have to play entirely on the road in the season before) and ending in May (so the Jays have to play April entirely on the road). It would be impossible to do anything more than minor from October/November to March. You need at least half a year. Probably more.

I agree with you on all points except that I think that Downsview could work. Like I've said before. The area would need to be developed with more things to do, shops, bars, restaurants... but so does the portlands. The plus for Downsview is that transit to the area is already very good.

Anyway, I don't really care which way they go. New stadium, renovate old stadium. Whatever. Just make it better.

I still think the redevelopment of Downsview is out of scope for building a new stadium. It's one of the least affluent areas in the city of Toronto, and ignoring the cost of redevelopment, you also have the social considerations of gentrifying a lower-income part of the city. A city that is already increasingly seen as unliveable for anyone outside the upper-middle class.

The Portlands is at least a pure industrial/commercial area where redevelopment isn't going to put upward pressure on cost of living for low-income persons. The residential areas near the Portlands are already extremely expensive. Not to mention the Portlands gives the opportunity for a lakefront stadium a la San Francisco. Still, due to the cost of redevelopment and transit connections, the CNE grounds (which I suppose would include Ontario Place) still sound like the best option to be. Transit connection, little need for redevelopment, space for a stadium, good aesthetics, good optics, and more.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't see large scale renovation viable. If Buffalo was temporarily annexed by Canada, maybe. But playing a whole season in a minor league stadium in another country? League wouldn't go for it. Only way I could see it is if it was a very short timeline, starting in September (so the Jays have to play entirely on the road in the season before) and ending in May (so the Jays have to play April entirely on the road). It would be impossible to do anything more than minor from October/November to March. You need at least half a year. Probably more.



I still think the redevelopment of Downsview is out of scope for building a new stadium. It's one of the least affluent areas in the city of Toronto, and ignoring the cost of redevelopment, you also have the social considerations of gentrifying a lower-income part of the city. A city that is already increasingly seen as unliveable for anyone outside the upper-middle class.

The Portlands is at least a pure industrial/commercial area where redevelopment isn't going to put upward pressure on cost of living for low-income persons. The residential areas near the Portlands are already extremely expensive. Not to mention the Portlands gives the opportunity for a lakefront stadium a la San Francisco. Still, due to the cost of redevelopment and transit connections, the CNE grounds (which I suppose would include Ontario Place) still sound like the best option to be. Transit connection, little need for redevelopment, space for a stadium, good aesthetics, good optics, and more.

Yeah, like I said, I'm really good with anything here. Not that I'm pushing for Downsview but I'm sure it would be seen as a positive for many to revitalize the area with a stadium and the surrounding business it would bring. Also would make it much more accessible to people in the suburbs. Anyway, I'd be happy with Portlands or CNE. Either would be great. I think there are already big plans to redevelop the area around Broadview + Eastern so this could fit in with that.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Can they build an outdoor stadium with 35000 capacity for less than 600M in Toronto?

 

[Voight]

2) The old Ontario Place site. Not sure what's up with that.

One thing to keep in mind when looking for a site is flight paths for Billy Bishop. Though, I think things can be worked out so as not to interfere.

Also, I don't think putting it a Downsview a good idea. Far too often we see stadiums and arenas built outside the downtown core and they don't do well.

As for the weather, I have a hard time believing that we NEED a roof when neither of Minnesota or Detroit (who's weather and ours are basically the same) have them.

Their old field is now the TFC's soccer stadium.

& yes, Downsview would be a bad idea. Different port but the Sens are a perfect example of what happens when your venue is in the suburbs.

 

[Voight]

Can they build an outdoor stadium with 35000 capacity for less than 600M in Toronto?

No shot. Its original cost was $570 million, and thats 1989 dollars.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

No shot. Its original cost was $570 million, and thats 1989 dollars.

But that was with the dome. Which must have added significant amount to the cost.

 

[Voight]

But that was with the dome. Which must have added significant amount to the cost.

Right and even if you remove that, its still not getting done for that price. Especially in Toronto where large projects A) Always cost more than everywhere else and B) Always go over budget.

They need the dome anyway.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Right and even if you remove that, its still not getting done for that price. Especially in Toronto where large projects A) Always cost more than everywhere else and B) Always go over budget.

They need the dome anyway.

It would be interesting to know what the econimics look like for an indoor stadium with a retractable roof (like the Dome is) as opposed to an outdoor stadium with a closable roof.

 

[Voight]

It would be interesting to know what the econimics look like for an indoor stadium with a retractable roof (like the Dome is) as opposed to an outdoor stadium with a closable roof.

The Texas Rangers are currently building one at a cost of $1.1 billion, Marlins Park cost #676 million in 2017 dollars. Those are the most recent.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Their old field is now the TFC's soccer stadium.

& yes, Downsview would be a bad idea. Different port but the Sens are a perfect example of what happens when your venue is in the suburbs.

Well I mean, Downsview isn't really the suburbs. The equivalent of Kanata in Toronto would be something like Newmarket, Georgetown or Brooklin. Downsview is in Toronto proper, which is all heavily urbanized with a dense population. Downsview just happens to be one of the ugliest parts of the city.

Exhibition Stadium might now be BMO but there is still room around that area.

 

[Voight]

Well I mean, Downsview isn't really the suburbs. The equivalent of Kanata in Toronto would be something like Newmarket, Georgetown or Brooklin. Downsview is in Toronto proper, which is all heavily urbanized with a dense population. Downsview just happens to be one of the ugliest parts of the city.

Exhibition Stadium might now be BMO but there is still room around that area.

Ummmm no..... Kanata is 20 KM/20-30 minutes outside of Downtown Ottawa.... so is Downsview.

There is room there but their location right now is perfect.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Ummmm no..... Kanata is 20 KM/20-30 minutes outside of Downtown Ottawa.... so is Downsview.

There is room there but their location right now is perfect.

But it’s different. You have to scale with the size of the cities, Toronto is 10x the size of Ottawa, so while Kanata is in the outer suburbs of Ottawa, Downsview is a neighbourhood in inner city Toronto compared to actual outer suburbs like Georgetown and Newmarket (also, Kanata is not 20 minutes from Downtown Ottawa in 99.9% of traffic scenarios).

Nobody from Downsview would consider themselves to be living in the suburbs. Just because it’s not lakeshore doesn’t make it the ‘burbs.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

It would be interesting to know what the econimics look like for an indoor stadium with a retractable roof (like the Dome is) as opposed to an outdoor stadium with a closable roof.

Umm, aren't these the exact same thing?

 

[Spirit of 67]

Umm, aren't these the exact same thing?

No. The dome in environmentally controlled. An outdoor stadium wouldn't be.
So, you wouldn't be able to use it in the winter.

 

[nilan30]

Could they not put a different roof with more glass and venting like in say Miller Park so they could allow for grass and give it more of an outdoor feel?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Their old field is now the TFC's soccer stadium.

& yes, Downsview would be a bad idea. Different port but the Sens are a perfect example of what happens when your venue is in the suburbs.

It's not the downtown core but it's not the suburbs. It's a 30 minute subway ride from Yonge & Bloor which is the center of the city. A better comparison would be how Yankees stadium is in the Bronx (30 minute subway ride from Times Square).

Well I mean, Downsview isn't really the suburbs. The equivalent of Kanata in Toronto would be something like Newmarket, Georgetown or Brooklin. Downsview is in Toronto proper, which is all heavily urbanized with a dense population. Downsview just happens to be one of the ugliest parts of the city.

Yes.

Ummmm no..... Kanata is 20 KM/20-30 minutes outside of Downtown Ottawa.... so is Downsview.

There is room there but their location right now is perfect.

Not comparable at all.

But it’s different. You have to scale with the size of the cities, Toronto is 10x the size of Ottawa, so while Kanata is in the outer suburbs of Ottawa, Downsview is a neighbourhood in inner city Toronto compared to actual outer suburbs like Georgetown and Newmarket (also, Kanata is not 20 minutes from Downtown Ottawa in 99.9% of traffic scenarios).

Nobody from Downsview would consider themselves to be living in the suburbs. Just because it’s not lakeshore doesn’t make it the ‘burbs.

Yes.

Could they not put a different roof with more glass and venting like in say Miller Park so they could allow for grass and give it more of an outdoor feel?

That would be interesting but I have no idea how logistically feasible that is.

--------------------

Again, they just need to do something. Move the stadium to the Exhibition grounds, Portlands, or Downview (I really don't care which one) or do some serious renovations to the dome.

 

[Voight]

No. The dome in environmentally controlled. An outdoor stadium wouldn't be.
So, you wouldn't be able to use it in the winter.

That eliminates any chance of government funding. No shot they commit big dollars to something that's unusable in the winter.

Skydome is key because they can many events during the off season.

 

[Spirit of 67]

That eliminates any chance of government funding. No shot they commit big dollars to something that's unusable in the winter.

Skydome is key because they can many events during the off season.

Exactly.
It's probably cheaper to not have to environmentally control the inside but you lose event dates.

 

[Habsrule]

Sorry if this sounds stupid but how about the Jays play in Montreal for a year. Then they can refurbish the SkyDome.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Sorry if this sounds stupid but how about the Jays play in Montreal for a year. Then they can refurbish the SkyDome.

League won't go for it I'm sure.