Mitch "The Magician" Marner

[7even]

I wasn't aware of that, but I did find the quote you're referring to:

I see Willie as a centre for sure (but not Marner), Babcock said after the morning skate.

I always thought wingers couldnt (drive a line) and then I watched (Patrick) Kane and he can do it (with the Chicago Blackhawks).

There are a few guys in the NHL who can drive a line as a winger and they usually possess the puck more than other people and (Marner) is one of those guys. His work ethic, pace and confidence give him an opportunity to do that.


So if Babcock expects him to do what centres do and drive whatever line he's on a la Kane, should we still penalize him for not being listed as a C on the lineup card?

Nah. Mitch can dominate as a wing and the team doesn't need another centre anyways.

 

[Walshy7]

I welcome a rebuttal.

The Leafs see Marner as a future centre. Or at least they did prior to drafting Matthews. Here's a source where Mitch confirms that Hunter told him that he will play centre in the future.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mitch-marner-expects-to-play-centre-on-toronto-maple-leafs/

Additionally, all scouts who've opined on the matter believe that he would have no issues at C. Every major publication lists him as a C.

I hope that's enough evidence to close the chapter on this C/Wing debate. All of the experts say he can play both. Given the Leafs needs, maybe he'll stick at the wing long-term. We shouldn't hold this against him.


Second point, in regards to his defense. Yes, his line was poor defensively, but JVR doesn't bother on that end, and Bozak isn't much better. Again, scouts have always said that Marner is strong defensively. The eye test (to me, and I think most others) confirms this. Now I'll grant you that he does turn it over quite a bit in the offensive zone, but he's a rookie who always has the puck on his stick and often goes for the low percentage pass. He'll have to clean this up a bit, and he will, but otherwise, he's terrific defensively. Quimby provided some stats that attest to this fact, and if you watch him closely you will see how smart/responsible he is on that end. I will only add that Marner finished 3rd in entire NHL in takeaways/minute. That is incredible for a rookie.

Meanwhile, Eichel is a notoriously poor defender. That fact is not debatable. Matthews is decent defensively, especially for a rookie so I suppose you can present an argument on that front.

Leo komarov, Zach Hyman, Colin greening, Patrick Marleau are all listed at C. The listing means nothing. Marner went back to London and played games at C and only put up PPG ("only") which would make him an OK C, but switched back to W and goes 2PPG making him an elite winger, its very obvious he is better on the wing and he drives the line form there leave him there.

 

[diceman934]

Leo komarov, Zach Hyman, Colin greening, Patrick Marleau are all listed at C. The listing means nothing. Marner went back to London and played games at C and only put up PPG ("only") which would make him an OK C, but switched back to W and goes 2PPG making him an elite winger, its very obvious he is better on the wing and he drives the line form there leave him there.

Wrong he put up 1.5 ppg as a centre with inferior line mates and more importantly the top line suffered as did the team results which was the reason he was moved back on to the top line.

 

[Walshy7]

Wrong he put up 1.5 ppg as a centre with inferior line mates and more importantly the top line suffered as did the team results which was the reason he was moved back on to the top line.

oh my bad though it was 1PPG for some reason. In any case he didn't move up to the top line as a C, he went back to W. Marner is a winger an elite winger which shouldn't be used as a negative against him but our coach who has 5 years left on his contract said he is not a C so this wishing and hoping he would be a C isn't going to happen (outside of a catastrophic injury crisis to our C's)

 

[thewave]

oh my bad though it was 1PPG for some reason. In any case he didn't move up to the top line as a C, he went back to W. Marner is a winger an elite winger which shouldn't be used as a negative against him but our coach who has 5 years left on his contract said he is not a C so this wishing and hoping he would be a C isn't going to happen (outside of a catastrophic injury crisis to our C's)

I wouldn't type cast him yet. He may be more effective at C down the line.

 

[Walshy7]

I wouldn't type cast him yet. He may be more effective at C down the line.

could he be? sure kids an amazing talent but the long term coach of the leafs has flat out said he wont be, he said Nylander would be definitively, and yet still hasn't put him there I find it hard to see him moving marner over.

Im not trying to come off as anti-marner here im just realistically saying it is an incredibly low chance he will be. And again he doesn't need to be, one of those rare talents who controls the game from the wing

edit: outside of those knights games he got at C, how many was it? 30ish? he has only played wing in the OHL & NHL

 

[thewave]

could he be? sure kids an amazing talent but the long term coach of the leafs has flat out said he wont be, he said Nylander would be definitively, and yet still hasn't put him there I find it hard to see him moving marner over.

Im not trying to come off as anti-marner here im just realistically saying it is an incredibly low chance he will be. And again he doesn't need to be, one of those rare talents who controls the game from the wing

edit: outside of those knights games he got at C, how many was it? 30ish? he has only played wing in the OHL & NHL

Depends on how he matures and trains. The biggest problem I have with Marner at C is his high risk passing. Nylander and Matthews are super efficient passers, perhaps not as fancy but they hit the pass over and over. Marner can make a pass that most players would deem too risky more often than not, but when it misses they usually get zone locked or he has to skate back and correct the error (which he does).

If Marner passed with Nylander efficiency, Babs would likely say Marner will be a C down the line.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Wrong he put up 1.5 ppg as a centre with inferior line mates and more importantly the top line suffered as did the team results which was the reason he was moved back on to the top line.

with inferior line mates? I luv the reasons/excuse/etc you guys come up with

 

[Gary Nylund]

Depends on how he matures and trains. The biggest problem I have with Marner at C is his high risk passing. Nylander and Matthews are super efficient passers, perhaps not as fancy but they hit the pass over and over. Marner can make a pass that most players would deem too risky more often than not, but when it misses they usually get zone locked or he has to skate back and correct the error (which he does).

If Marner passed with Nylander efficiency, Babs would likely say Marner will be a C down the line.

If that's your biggest problem then you don't have much to worry about. He tries these passes most wouldn't dream of making and like you say, he makes the more often than not so what's the problem. He's also in the other team's zone when he tries them so if he misses, it's not like we give up a scoring chance. Plus it was his rookie year, he will get better at making these split second judgement calls and he's already very good so ... bottom line, you're making an issue out of nothing.

 

[ACC1224]

with inferior line mates? I luv the reasons/excuse/etc you guys come up with

You're not that familiar with his junior career are you?

 

[moon111]

If that's your biggest problem then you don't have much to worry about. He tries these passes most wouldn't dream of making and like you say, he makes the more often than not so what's the problem. He's also in the other team's zone when he tries them so if he misses, it's not like we give up a scoring chance. Plus it was his rookie year, he will get better at making these split second judgement calls and he's already very good so ... bottom line, you're making an issue out of nothing.

I think there's a huge problem with passes that 'mostly' make it through. Turnover! And with an average and below average skating line-mates, it can be quite risky. Also, teams are going to be focused on it. A simple and safe play would just be more guess work for opposing teams.

 

[Northernguy10]

I think there's a huge problem with passes that 'mostly' make it through. Turnover! And with an average and below average skating line-mates, it can be quite risky. Also, teams are going to be focused on it. A simple and safe play would just be more guess work for opposing teams.

He wasn't drafted to make simple and safe plays in the offensive zone. It would be line asking Picasso to paint a house...

 

[Nithoniniel]

He wasn't drafted to make simple and safe plays in the offensive zone. It would be line asking Picasso to paint a house...

Absolutely. Still, he made quite a few passes that were just very poor decisions.

 

[Northernguy10]

Absolutely. Still, he made quite a few passes that were just very poor decisions.

Yes they were and I'd be surprised if that didn't improve. When I coached I had a strict system within our own blueline but encouraged my skill players to be creative in the neutral and offensive zones.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He makes lots of flashy passes, but it's not actually all that dangerous because he doesn't really make bad decisions.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Absolutely. Still, he made quite a few passes that were just very poor decisions.

Those were mostly after his return from mono.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews/Nylander/Kadri/Marner as our centers if Bozak was moved????? That would be insane and impossible for any team in the league to get a advantage on. Thats a # 1 and three # 2 centers no matter what order you would like to put them after Matthews.

It seems that the team program is that every player needs to be defensively responsible. So with our depth at forward just make up 4 sets of wingers that bring the components of quality two way lines and see what you get.

It would be impossible for teams to get a competitive advantage at center every game. Thats a lot of center talent potential. It is insane really if we threw that at teams.

 

[thewave]

Matthews/Nylander/Kadri/Marner as our centers if Bozak was moved????? That would be insane and impossible for any team in the league to get a advantage on. Thats a # 1 and three # 2 centers no matter what order you would like to put them after Matthews.

It seems that the team program is that every player needs to be defensively responsible. So with our depth at forward just make up 4 sets of wingers that bring the components of quality two way lines and see what you get.

It would be impossible for teams to get a competitive advantage at center every game. Thats a lot of center talent potential. It is insane really if we threw that at teams.

Marner is a bit high risk to be a C right now. That's not saying he can't ever be a C. Nylander IMHO is ready but Marner probably has to smarten up and tone down his dazzle some. He does work hard to correct his mistakes though.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Marner is a bit high risk to be a C right now. That's not saying he can't ever be a C. Nylander IMHO is ready but Marner probably has to smarten up and tone down his dazzle some. He does work hard to correct his mistakes though.

I placed him at 4 with that in mind. There would be matchup hell for teams on both forward and defense trying to figure out who would be the most dangerous line every period let alone game. Everyone of them can play a better skating and defensive game that bozzy.

If we do see a defensively more responsible team effort with 4 centers with game breaking qualities and abilityto each drive possession. We would be the talk of the league if it worked. Willy and Mitch have the least expierence but loads of talent and they could match teams on the 3 and 4 lines to balance out the degelopment curve against a little lower quality of competition.

It is crazy how much Matthews boosted our center depth. He stands to be the hammer and we are terribly advanced as a team by getting to draft him.

 

[Garthinater]

Marner makes some of the most intelligent passes I've ever seen. The assist he got during the buffalo game was off an awesome pass. Then there's also the insane one touch, back hand drop pass to bozak against price.

I'm really hoping he has a big year

 

[Mugzy97]

Watch out, here comes Mitch Marner

 

[Stand Witness]

Guess who's back, back again
Marner's back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back
Guess who's back, guess who's back

 

[Raymoondo]

Marner is a god

 

[Mess]

With 9 points in his last 4 games it looks like Marner has gotten his MOJO back..

Lets hope he has a strong 2nd half of the season with his confidence back.

 

[Wendelstache]

Kid is back, when he was struggling even his defensive play disappeared which I didn't expect.

Now, he picking it on both sides of the puck... old Mitch is here to stay!!!