Will Mitch Marner become star?

Is Marner going to be a star

  • Yes

  • No

  • Already is


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Myopic

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Feb 26, 2017
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Braden Point

He was drafted 79th overall in 2014

In his 2nd year in the league, Braden Point is averaging .97 PPG with 14 goals and 17 assists (27th in scoring)

Point is basically the same size as Marner.

Who has a brighter future?

Looks like Hunter probably made a mistake not drafting one of the d-men available.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,463
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Braden Point

He was drafted 79th overall in 2014

In his 2nd year in the league, Braden Point is averaging .97 PPG with 14 goals and 17 assists (27th in scoring)

Point is basically the same size as Marner.

Who has a brighter future?

Looks like Hunter probably made a mistake not drafting one of the d-men available.
Brayden Point was a great prospect and I was a huge fan of him prior to the draft.

Tampa has truly put him in a position to succeed and gladly gives him the minutes he deserves.
 

KPower

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Jan 17, 2012
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Lou would trade him straight up for Provorov, Werenski, or Hanifin if he could.
 

realgoodleafs

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
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SW Ontario
Braden Point

He was drafted 79th overall in 2014

In his 2nd year in the league, Braden Point is averaging .97 PPG with 14 goals and 17 assists (27th in scoring)

Point is basically the same size as Marner.

Who has a brighter future?

Looks like Hunter probably made a mistake not drafting one of the d-men available.

Those are completely different drafts. Hunter wasn't even here during the 2014 draft. We picked Rinat Valiev that year in the 2nd round.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
39,884
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Brayden Point was a great prospect and I was a huge fan of him prior to the draft.

Tampa has truly put him in a position to succeed and gladly gives him the minutes he deserves.

Tampa is the best, smartest, most efficient organization in the league. They will be the team to beat and our nemesis for years to come.

Hunter has many interesting strategies past the 1st round. I would say he is 5th to 10th best in th e league.
 

stickty111

Registered User
Jan 23, 2017
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He needs a better centre. When he got paired with Kadri last season or Matthews this season, he looked more engaged. When he gets put with faceoff% king, he doesnt look as good.
Its easy to tell what the problem is.
 

Myopic

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Feb 26, 2017
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Tampa is the best, smartest, most efficient organization in the league. They will be the team to beat and our nemesis for years to come.

Hunter has many interesting strategies past the 1st round. I would say he is 5th to 10th best in the league.
His over-age drafting strategy last year was unusual. Will any of them become high end players? Hunter obviously knows a lot more than me but he did go against the grain. Hopefully it pays off.
 

Myopic

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Feb 26, 2017
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He needs a better centre. When he got paired with Kadri last season or Matthews this season, he looked more engaged. When he gets put with faceoff% king, he doesnt look as good.
Its easy to tell what the problem is.
Maybe we'll see a Marner/Nylander line next year?
 

frizzer1

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Oct 19, 2013
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Marner has been the best player at every level....and last year until he got hurt he was outstanding..
He has never faced much adversity until now.
You can see clearly that he has lost the confidence to do the things that he has always done....he fumbles the puck....throws it into the corner...and doesn't hold onto it..
This will pass......it will just take time..

Unless,of course,that it's Babcock telling him to only make the safe play........but we don't know that is the case..
 

Nithoniniel

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Sep 7, 2012
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You purposely moderated the words to fit your narrative. Nice try.
If you're a high-end player in the sense I meant, you're a star. There's no disconnect there. And in that short post, I wrote the question word for word including the word 'star', so I'm not sure how you can honestly construe that as moderating the words to fit a narrative.

If you consider 6 goals in almost 60 games a "stretch of disappointing play", well, that's more than 1/2 of his NHL career. That's not a "small sample size" to Marner.
Luckily, goal scoring isn't a requirement for a playmaker to become a star. You can't accuse me of trying to fit things into a narrative and then combine parts of two seasons to only look at one part of his game, one that doesn't even make sense considering he's a pure playmaker, as a basis for your case. That's about as textbook as it can get.

I wouldn't exactly describe it as an "overwhelmingly strong case".
What is an overwhelmingly strong case is that he is a supreme talent who was one of the best junior players in a long time who then translated that fully to the NHL at the age of 19. Even if his season continues like this, it doesn't erase what has come before.

He is struggling mightily as the league learns how to defend him.
This is said about every damn player who ever has a stretch of lesser production. Ovi was figured out when he had a rough season. Matthews was figured out when he hit his scoring drought. Johnny Hockey was figured out last season.

His toolbox doesn't include great speed, a good shot, ability to grind, nor good size. Even an optimist would have to admit that he is certainly not a slam dunk to become a future star.
Nobody is a slam dunk, if you're not McDavid. But a sensible projection has him as a star. His speed is fine, his shot is a weakness, and "ability to grind" or size is not going to be a factor for whether a player like him becomes a star or not.

I just don't think that it is very likely.
By which you ignore the larger sample of last year combined with history and shown talent to focus on a rough second season.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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His over-age drafting strategy last year was unusual. Will any of them become high end players? Hunter obviously knows a lot more than me but he did go against the grain. Hopefully it pays off.

He goes against the grain a lot. There have been multiple really good players left on the board or within reach of trading up for on the board along the way. Lilj was a no brainer. Marner was a very debatable and high risk call. Nylander was a good play and Matthews a no brainer. So far its all about freebies and 1sts. If they want to follow this pattern best get an extra 1st for JVR etc
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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One thing I’ve noticed on these boards is this obsession with goals and ignoring of assists for point totals. I don’t remember it always being like this, perhaps an influence of having a sniper like Matthews?

Assists are points to, they lead to to goals...
 

Mitchy

#HFOutcasts
Jul 12, 2012
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One thing I’ve noticed on these boards is this obsession with goals and ignoring of assists for point totals. I don’t remember it always being like this, perhaps an influence of having a sniper like Matthews?

Assists are points to, they lead to to goals...

Not to mention, he's only shooting 3.3%. Does anyone actually expect that to last? His shot may be weak, but that shooting percentage is bound to go up.

His underlying stats are terrific as well, which is nice to see. He's only a 2nd year pro. Lets be patient with him. His upside is tremendous.
 

Myopic

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Feb 26, 2017
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If you're a high-end player in the sense I meant, you're a star. There's no disconnect there. And in that short post, I wrote the question word for word including the word 'star', so I'm not sure how you can honestly construe that as moderating the words to fit a narrative.

High end can be interpreted to mean several things. You purposely changed the wording from STAR to high end for a reason. That gives you a lot more latitude in terms of defining his talent. You can spin it all you like but the end result is that you did not use the word STAR in your answer.


Luckily, goal scoring isn't a requirement for a playmaker to become a star. You can't accuse me of trying to fit things into a narrative and then combine parts of two seasons to only look at one part of his game, one that doesn't even make sense considering he's a pure playmaker, as a basis for your case. That's about as textbook as it can get.

That's your opinion. A STAR winger doesn't score less than 10 goals a season (projected this year) generally speaking unless you are a 37-year-old Joe Thornton. Being a playmaker doesn't give one a free pass for the negatives already mentioned. You'd better be putting up 80+ assists a year if you can't score goals. The definition of a 'star' is not the definition of a playmaker. There's more to it.

You were the one who downplayed it as a small size sample and a poor stretch of play. I merely highlighted the reality of the situation. It's a 60 game period where he is producing like a 4th liner in terms of goals. I don't see many stars crapping the bed at that level. Teams learn to defend players who are one-dimensional "playmakers". Spin it any way you like but it's not a good look and certainly not a projection of future greatness.

What is an overwhelmingly strong case is that he is a supreme talent who was one of the best junior players in a long time who then translated that fully to the NHL at the age of 19. Even if his season continues like this, it doesn't erase what has come before.

Junior league stats quite often don't carry over into the NHL. We've seen many examples of that over the years. Yes he had a nice rookie season but you can't live off of that forever. So far this season you'd have to be disappointed in his play and production. You want a future "STAR" to get better, not digress....or is it just the league figuring out his weaknesses?


This is said about every damn player who ever has a stretch of lesser production. Ovi was figured out when he had a rough season. Matthews was figured out when he hit his scoring drought. Johnny Hockey was figured out last season.

I do not remember Matthews scoring 6 goals over a 60 game period. Again you try to downplay a 60 game period into being " a stretch of lesser production" A STRETCH? ....Nice try...I guess your response will be to say he is a playmaker...lol


Nobody is a slam dunk, if you're not McDavid. But a sensible projection has him as a star. His speed is fine, his shot is a weakness, and "ability to grind" or size is not going to be a factor for whether a player like him becomes a star or not.

Nice Strawman!
My bad, I thought you said that Marner has "an overwhelmingly strong case" to project as a future STAR. Sorry to put words in your mouth.

BTW his speed is average----You again downplay it as being "fine" OK then.

The ability to retrieve the puck is what I'm referring to as the 'grind'. Don't you see that as an issue? Ya know ,it's kinda nice to have the puck.




By which you ignore the larger sample of last year combined with history and shown talent to focus on a rough second season.
 
Last edited:

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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Not to mention, he's only shooting 3.3%. Does anyone actually expect that to last? His shot may be weak, but that shooting percentage is bound to go up.

His underlying stats are terrific as well, which is nice to see. He's only a 2nd year pro. Lets be patient with him. His upside is tremendous.

He (and Nylander) have gotten some dreadful puckuck, esp finally at even strength.

It won’t last.
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
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I think the people attached to a guy like Marner are the emotional ones. They think of his star OHL days and can't separate that from the reality of what he is in the NHL. As I don't watch the OHL, that doesn't effect me. He will have to greatly transform his game to ever live up to what is expected from him. And I do mean greatly.
61 points as a rookie...
 

Myopic

Registered User
Feb 26, 2017
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Seemed like you were implying Brayden Point could have been chosen by Hunter instead of Marner and we could have gotten Provorov/Werenski at the same time. Otherwise I'm not really sure why you brought up Point.
You implied wrong.
I brought up Point to show a similar, smallish player, in his 2nd year in the league. Apparently, he isn't suffering from a sophomore slump.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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You implied wrong.
I brought up Point to show a similar, smallish player, in his 2nd year in the league. Apparently, he isn't suffering from a sophomore slump.

The fact that another player didn’t suffer one has zero relevancy to Marner.

There are plenty of players in the league (big or small) who have experienced struggles in their first few years in the league by managed to overcome them.
 

Myopic

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Feb 26, 2017
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The fact that another player didn’t suffer one has zero relevancy to Marner.

There are plenty of players in the league (big or small) who have experienced struggles in their first few years in the league by managed to overcome them.

If you can't see the similarities I can't help you.

I wasn't talking in absolutes. I just thought it was interesting. Marner is getting too many excuses for his poor play. It's definitely a concern whether you want to admit it or not.

Remember what this thread is about----Marner as a Future STAR

I won't even project that superlative to Braden Point but I like his chances better than Mitch Marners.

Marner's play is so poor this year that I no longer view him as a core piece going forward. I loved him last year and it takes a lot for me to change my opinion. He's looked THAT bad.
 

Slyfox

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Dec 12, 2016
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Remember guys we just gave the Tampa Bay the best drafting team in the NHL AINEC a free second round pick for 4th liner Brian f***ing Boyle.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Braden Point

He was drafted 79th overall in 2014

In his 2nd year in the league, Braden Point is averaging .97 PPG with 14 goals and 17 assists (27th in scoring)

Point is basically the same size as Marner.

Who has a brighter future?

Looks like Hunter probably made a mistake not drafting one of the d-men available.

Braden point is 14 months older at a potentially very important prime point in development.

Check back in a career!
 
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