Minor League Thread 2017-18: Part VIII

[SnowblindNYR]

Now the chances that a given player becomes Malkin are 0.000000001%, but it's still possible.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

When can we call up Chytil and Lias without burning a year off their elc?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lias after the Jackets game, Chytil a week from tomorrow.

If I had to guess, they'll both be called up prior to the home and home vs Washington.

 

[bl02]

When can we call up Chytil and Lias without burning a year off their elc?

I believe Chytil with 7 games left. Lias can play final 9. so we have 10 games left so I guess in theory we could see Lias later in week? I may be in minority but would rather see them continue playing in hartford. Maybe call them up for final 3-4 games?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

When can we call up Chytil and Lias without burning a year off their elc?

Andersson: Thursday
Chytil: Next Monday

Edit: Go Away Plug beat me to it.

 

[nyr2k2]

Zborovskiy sent back down to Greenville again. I guess the organization liked what they saw from Kotyk and Denis and felt Zborovskiy was better off getting more minutes in Greenville. Who is the third RD in Hartford--Bigras? I know he has played both sides before. Otherwise it's Crawley, Labrie or Pedrie (with Smith out). They probably need to make another move to find a 7th D.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Zborovskiy sent back down to Greenville again. I guess the organization liked what they saw from Kotyk and Denis and felt Zborovskiy was better off getting more minutes in Greenville. Who is the third RD in Hartford--Bigras? I know he has played both sides before. Otherwise it's Crawley, Labrie or Pedrie (with Smith out). They probably need to make another move to find a 7th D.

It's difficult to hold any hope for Zboro at this point. A bad pick imo.

I'm far from a scout, but since I first seen him (at the WJC), I couldn't figure out why he warranted a third round pick.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's difficult to hold any hope for Zboro at this point. A bad pick imo.

I'm far from a scout, but since I first seen him (at the WJC), I couldn't figure out why he warranted a third round pick.

Hope that his feet would improve. They haven't.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's produced in the WHL and ECHL. 1st team all-star last year in the WHL. Ronning is getting all this praise for being a 2nd team all-star as an overager, Zborovskiy was a 1st team all-star without being an overager. And then from all accounts, he did well in the ECHL. He only got 10 AHL games, it seems like he's done well, but he's out of favor with management.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's difficult to hold any hope for Zboro at this point. A bad pick imo.

I'm far from a scout, but since I first seen him (at the WJC), I couldn't figure out why he warranted a third round pick.

It was tough, because I remember some places calling him a reach and a few legitimate outlets saying he was a great pick or a steal. So, I guess there was no consensus on him. I had no problem with the pick, I was willing to trust the FO there. However it does seem strange that they'd pick a guy that's a mediocre skater at a time where the game and the team place such an emphasis on that skill. If Zborovskiy was a stronger skater, I have no doubt he'd play in the NHL in some capacity. Without the skating, though, what is he? A poor man's Marc Staal?

He's produced in the WHL and ECHL. 1st team all-star last year in the WHL. Ronning is getting all this praise for being a 2nd team all-star as an overager, Zborovskiy was a 1st team all-star without being an overager. And then from all accounts, he did well in the ECHL. He only got 10 AHL games, it seems like he's done well, but he's out of favor with management.

Zborovskiy played on a f***ing powerhouse WHL team that was way better than Ronning's team. That whole season we discussed whether Zborovskiy was a product of his environment. And then, same thing this year, he plays on an ECHL team scoring over 4 goals a game and posts big numbers. Then the ECHL team loses some guys, and he goes from producing offense to posting 3P (0G-3A) in 18 games. Again, product of his environment.

When you say, "And then from all accounts he did well in the ECHL," what accounts are those? Who is watching the ECHL providing us accounts of Zborovskiy's play? And even if he was doing well in the ECHL, does that really matter?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He's produced in the WHL and ECHL. 1st team all-star last year in the WHL. Ronning is getting all this praise for being a 2nd team all-star as an overager, Zborovskiy was a 1st team all-star without being an overager. And then from all accounts, he did well in the ECHL. He only got 10 AHL games, it seems like he's done well, but he's out of favor with management.

Not for nothing, but Ronning is getting all types of praise because he scored 60 this year.

Can't look at league awards and really draw any conclusions from them. Zboro put up big numbers on a powerhouse team last year. Ronning's skill set translates much better to the pro game even if he is undersized.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not for nothing, but Ronning is getting all types of praise because he scored 60 this year.

Can't look at league awards and really draw any conclusions from them. Zboro put up big numbers on a powerhouse team last year. Ronning's skill set translates much better to the pro game even if he is undersized.

Different positions require different roles. Ronning will have to make his mark in professional hockey as a point/goal producer, a defensive defensemen won't. If they produced significant offense, they probably wouldn't be a defensive defensemen. Comparing their goals/points is irrelevant. Does anyone compare Zuccarello's point production to Smith? And he was 24th in points in the WHL among defensemen, so he didn't score that much. I think he got the accolade due more to his defensive play than his offensive play.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Different positions require different roles. Ronning will have to make his mark in professional hockey as a point/goal producer, a defensive defensemen won't. If they produced significant offense, they probably wouldn't be a defensive defensemen. Comparing their goals/points is irrelevant. Does anyone compare Zuccarello's point production to Smith? And he was 24th in points in the WHL among defensemen, so he didn't score that much. I think he got the accolade due more to his defensive play than his offensive play.

Even if that were the case, it was clear as day that he would struggle to play in the higher pro leagues unless he got faster.

Hes huge and mobile enough to do well in Juniors, but thats really it.

I think Ronning has a future as a bottom 6 energy guy, so I disagree with the "he either scores or he doesn't make it" assessment.

 

[Joey Bones]

Although I don't have much faith for Zborovskiy playing in the NHL, this is his first year in pro hockey. I'd give him next season to really garner if he failed or not.

As for Ronning, he's doing this goal scoring on a mediocre Vancouver Giants team. That alone says a lot!!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Zborovskiy played on a ****ing powerhouse WHL team that was way better than Ronning's team. That whole season we discussed whether Zborovskiy was a product of his environment. And then, same thing this year, he plays on an ECHL team scoring over 4 goals a game and posts big numbers. Then the ECHL team loses some guys, and he goes from producing offense to posting 3P (0G-3A) in 18 games. Again, product of his environment.

When you say, "And then from all accounts he did well in the ECHL," what accounts are those? Who is watching the ECHL providing us accounts of Zborovskiy's play? And even if he was doing well in the ECHL, does that really matter?

Having watched probably like 5 of those WHL games last season, along with the CHL-Russia series against CHL'ers, he was clearly not a product of his environment. That is a ridiculous assertion, and given how few posts people here made about claiming to watch his games and giving updates on his CHL games, I would guess there were very few others who watched. Unless these people watched the games and didn't post updates, I would say there's little to back that up. In fact, I'd say everything points to that being false. Maybe the offensive numbers were helped by the environment, but as I already mentioned, he didn't score that many points, so the perception was not only about points. And with most of these situations, its often possible the player who people claim is a product of the environment is part of why that environment is doing so well.

He was the first call up from the ECHL a few times, so I take that to mean he was playing well. And for a defensive defensemen to be putting up significant points, I think that usually means they are too good for that league. Usually when you see non-point producers producing a lot of offense, that usually means they are too good for that league. I would assume that came with good defense, as thats more his game than the offense, but I guess its possible he was playing bad defense and the offense was a product of the team. I have no clue where you'd find an ECHL game to watch.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Even if that were the case, it was clear as day that he would struggle to play in the higher pro leagues unless he got faster.

Hes huge and mobile enough to do well in Juniors, but thats really it.

I think Ronning has a future as a bottom 6 energy guy, so I disagree with the "he either scores or he doesn't make it" assessment.

How many AHL games have you watched this season?

He only played in 10 of them. Did he play in any of the games you watched?

As for Ronning, how many "energy" guys are 5'9? He likely needs to provide offense to be an NHL'er. If that comes with grit, excellent. If not, I still think its possible for him to make it to the NHL on offense.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How many AHL games have you watched this season?

He only played in 10 of them. Did he play in any of the games you watched?

As for Ronning, how many "energy" guys are 5'9? He likely needs to provide offense to be an NHL'er. If that comes with grit, excellent. If not, I still think its possible for him to make it to the NHL on offense.

3 and he didn't play in any of them.

I'm basing this off of what others have said of his play.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The thing with Zboro, and I fee like this will be repeated ad nauseum, is his mobility. He’s a very solid defensive dmen, but his skating might not translate to the pros. Being able to absolutely shut down kids in juniors is different than don’t it against men. He has the size and smarts, but the skating will hold him back unless he fixes it. He has really awkward footwork when trying to move laterally. I know Adam Herman knocked his passing, but I didn’t see a problem with it

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The thing with Zboro, and I fee like this will be repeated ad nauseum, is his mobility. He’s a very solid defensive dmen, but his skating might not translate to the pros. Being able to absolutely shut down kids in juniors is different than don’t it against men. He has the size and smarts, but the skating will hold him back unless he fixes it. He has really awkward footwork when trying to move laterally. I know Adam Herman knocked his passing, but I didn’t see a problem with it

I didn't like it either.

It's not Staal bad, but its not a whole lot better.

 

[nyr2k2]

Having watched probably like 5 of those WHL games last season, along with the CHL-Russia series against CHL'ers, he was clearly not a product of his environment. That is a ridiculous assertion, and given how few posts people here made about claiming to watch his games and giving updates on his CHL games, I would guess there were very few others who watched. Unless these people watched the games and didn't post updates, I would say there's little to back that up. In fact, I'd say everything points to that being false. Maybe the offensive numbers were helped by the environment, but as I already mentioned, he didn't score that many points, so the perception was not only about points. And with most of these situations, its often possible the player who people claim is a product of the environment is part of why that environment is doing so well.

That's fine. He had that 7 point game or whatever, was plus-70-something. That's what got him noticed. That's what got people talking. He was like a PPG player for half the season. That stuff was being a product of the team he was on. Beyond that, sure, he was a good defensive defenseman for the team. Then we were all thoroughly unimpressed with what he did at the WJC. Kind of put a damper on things.

He was the first call up from the ECHL a few times, so I take that to mean he was playing well. And for a defensive defensemen to be putting up significant points, I think that usually means they are too good for that league. Usually when you see non-point producers producing a lot of offense, that usually means they are too good for that league. I would assume that came with good defense, as thats more his game than the offense, but I guess its possible he was playing bad defense and the offense was a product of the team. I have no clue where you'd find an ECHL game to watch.

I mean he was literally the only defensive prospect we had in the ECHL, so it would make sense they'd want to take a look at him. They also wanted to take a look at fringe prospect Dawson Leedahl for 30 games, so, you know, doesn't necessarily mean much. It also doesn't seem like a great sign though that they'd want to play Denis and Kotyk over Zborovskiy at this, the time in the year where you just play the young guys.

Look I hope it works out for Zborovskiy, I just don't see it happening. The skating isn't there. I said the exact same thing about Graves, who had a lot more to offer than Zborovskiy.

 

[Harbour Dog]

It was tough, because I remember some places calling him a reach and a few legitimate outlets saying he was a great pick or a steal. So, I guess there was no consensus on him. I had no problem with the pick, I was willing to trust the FO there. However it does seem strange that they'd pick a guy that's a mediocre skater at a time where the game and the team place such an emphasis on that skill. If Zborovskiy was a stronger skater, I have no doubt he'd play in the NHL in some capacity. Without the skating, though, what is he? A poor man's Marc Staal?

Yeah, I guess calling the pick a bad one is a bit unfair. We were just in the half of informed opinions that was probably wrong this time around.

That said, if there is one positive that a young defenseman has to his favour, I really would rather it wasn't 'positionally sound'. That and strength can develop easier than anything else.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah, I guess calling the pick a bad one is a bit unfair. We were just in the half of informed opinions that was probably wrong this time around.

That said, if there is one positive that a young defenseman has to his favour, I really would rather it wasn't 'positionally sound'. That and strength can develop easier than anything else.

You look at Sean Day and Sergey Zborovskiy. Two guys taken two spots apart (81 vs. 79, different drafts of course). Who do you prefer? The former has the tools but a limited toolbox, the latter has the toolbox but limited tools. I'm cool with taking either, but I would probably lean towards the mercurial guy with the tools instead of the steady guy with limited game. Particularly the later you get in the draft.

 

[Mac n Gs]

You look at Sean Day and Sergey Zborovskiy. Two guys taken two spots apart (81 vs. 79, different drafts of course). Who do you prefer? The former has the tools but a limited toolbox, the latter has the toolbox but limited tools. I'm cool with taking either, but I would probably lean towards the mercurial guy with the tools instead of the steady guy with limited game. Particularly the later you get in the draft.

I always lean towards opting for the tools. I think @silverfish mentioned an interesting question from Billy Beane IIRC:
You watch two guys running to first base who have the same exact time. One does it with perfect form, while the other does it with imperfect form. Which player do you choose?

 

[silverfish]

I always lean towards opting for the tools. I think @silverfish mentioned an interesting question from Billy Beane IIRC:
You watch two guys running to first base who have the same exact time. One does it with perfect form, while the other does it with imperfect form. Which player do you choose?

That's from The West Wing

Well, it's possible it's a more well-known 'riddle', but that's where I first heard it.

 

[Harbour Dog]

You look at Sean Day and Sergey Zborovskiy. Two guys taken two spots apart (81 vs. 79, different drafts of course). Who do you prefer? The former has the tools but a limited toolbox, the latter has the toolbox but limited tools. I'm cool with taking either, but I would probably lean towards the mercurial guy with the tools instead of the steady guy with limited game. Particularly the later you get in the draft.

At that point and later in the draft, it's Sean Day every time for me. Every pick is a gamble once you get that deep in the draft, might as well gamble on the guys with big upside.

I was a fan of the Reunanen pick for the same reason.