Minor League Affiliates

Blue Goose

Registered User
May 26, 2012
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Los Angeles
hockeytransplant.com
AHL looks to be Chicago, I don't see the Blues going elsewhere, even to San Antonio, and it has been discussed heavily that Colorado isn't keen on owning or operating a team, at either level....

nothing is changing unless something has been missed since Lehigh Valley and the AHL isn't expanding next season, because they would've had a proposal submitted behind the scenes and released that when the KC Mavericks fiasco occurred....

where the Blues do go after 16/17 isn't publically known or truly confirmed....

ECHL doesn't seem too keen either on expansion front despite the losses of Alaska and Elmira, and Vegas must have missed the league deadline to submit a proposal for 2017/18...

Reno has been a running gag line since the merger of the WCHL and ECHL.....

I think we're still waiting to see how long SVSE can manage 2 hockey teams and the other ancillary events that happen at SAP Center, they said the Barracuda were only a temporary stopgap measure before shifting them within the Sharks territory, whether it be their practice facility et all.

Having been to a SJ Barracuda game and seen the dismal attendance first-hand, my hope is that they eventually move over to Fresno. Seems like a good fit.

I can't seem to find the link, but I swear I read that Foley and co. don't expect to have an ECHL affiliate for the first season - does that mean they purchase the Alaska/Elmira teams to move to Reno next season? Could be, but we'll have to wait and see - I believe the ECHL has their Summer Meetings in mid-June to discuss all those factors.

I also can't see the Knights getting an AHL team in California. The Pacific Division already has 8 teams, and I remember hearing that the AHL commissioner said that when the league expands to 31 teams, that new team will be in the Central Division (presumably to move either Charlotte/Cleveland into the Eastern Conference). This is why the rumors of the Chicago Wolves being the Vegas affiliate and the Blues getting a new affiliate of their own in KC gained so much traction.

As you say, the fact that nothing has happened on that front yet seems curious - almost makes you wonder if they're just going to let Chicago be the affiliate for both STL and Vegas next season, to give the Blues one more year to find a logical spot for an affiliate team to own.
 

Vegas Mac

Golden Shellback
Jun 26, 2015
563
195
AHL looks to be Chicago, I don't see the Blues going elsewhere, even to San Antonio, and it has been discussed heavily that Colorado isn't keen on owning or operating a team, at either level....

nothing is changing unless something has been missed since Lehigh Valley and the AHL isn't expanding next season, because they would've had a proposal submitted behind the scenes and released that when the KC Mavericks fiasco occurred....

where the Blues do go after 16/17 isn't publically known or truly confirmed....

ECHL doesn't seem too keen either on expansion front despite the losses of Alaska and Elmira, and Vegas must have missed the league deadline to submit a proposal for 2017/18...

Reno has been a running gag line since the merger of the WCHL and ECHL.....

I think we're still waiting to see how long SVSE can manage 2 hockey teams and the other ancillary events that happen at SAP Center, they said the Barracuda were only a temporary stopgap measure before shifting them within the Sharks territory, whether it be their practice facility et all.

I'm pretty confident that at some point Vegas' brain trust is going to adjust their AHL team to geographical closeness. Obviously it isn't going to happen in year one or two, but at some point down the road the advantages of doing so will drive that decision.

And yeah, Reno is no sort of logical answer due to distance. There are many better options in California that represent a quicker transit for players and team execs. Places like Riverside that come with a high population or even smaller markets like Lake Elsinore within the greater SoCal area.
 

BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
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6,017
Bellevue, WA
I think the AHL proximity thing is overblown, especially in a place like Las Vegas or Los Angeles where there's a flight coming from most places every couple of hours.

If someone's in Chicago, there's three flights they can jump on right now and get to Las Vegas in four hours. Plus, Chicago is centrally located with access to two huge airports for road game call ups. I realize that's not the case in places like Winnipeg or perhaps places like Raleigh and Nashville, but we're pretty okay with flights at McCarran since it's once of the country's largest airports.

The real benefit of having an AHL team in your area is to pick up some fans on the periphery of your team's territory. With that, if the Knights don't locate the AHL team in either Salt Lake or Reno, I see no reason to even move it from Chicago.

Putting the AHL team in Fresno just puts the Knights top farm team in a less accessible location from Las Vegas with much more competition for the loyalty of the local Fresno fans.

Reno, Salt Lake, or somewhere in the midwest. That's where the team should be. Forget the East coast, forget the Central Valley. Salt Lake, Reno, or the Midwest. That's it.
 

Blue Goose

Registered User
May 26, 2012
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Los Angeles
hockeytransplant.com
I think the AHL proximity thing is overblown, especially in a place like Las Vegas or Los Angeles where there's a flight coming from most places every couple of hours.

If someone's in Chicago, there's three flights they can jump on right now and get to Las Vegas in four hours. Plus, Chicago is centrally located with access to two huge airports for road game call ups. I realize that's not the case in places like Winnipeg or perhaps places like Raleigh and Nashville, but we're pretty okay with flights at McCarran since it's once of the country's largest airports.

The real benefit of having an AHL team in your area is to pick up some fans on the periphery of your team's territory. With that, if the Knights don't locate the AHL team in either Salt Lake or Reno, I see no reason to even move it from Chicago.

Putting the AHL team in Fresno just puts the Knights top farm team in a less accessible location from Las Vegas with much more competition for the loyalty of the local Fresno fans.

Reno, Salt Lake, or somewhere in the midwest. That's where the team should be. Forget the East coast, forget the Central Valley. Salt Lake, Reno, or the Midwest. That's it.

All good points, especially the bolded. Put the Vegas AHL team in Chicago, and give a new AHL expansion team to the St. Louis Blues.
 

Vegas Mac

Golden Shellback
Jun 26, 2015
563
195
I think the AHL proximity thing is overblown, especially in a place like Las Vegas or Los Angeles where there's a flight coming from most places every couple of hours.

If someone's in Chicago, there's three flights they can jump on right now and get to Las Vegas in four hours. Plus, Chicago is centrally located with access to two huge airports for road game call ups. I realize that's not the case in places like Winnipeg or perhaps places like Raleigh and Nashville, but we're pretty okay with flights at McCarran since it's once of the country's largest airports.

The real benefit of having an AHL team in your area is to pick up some fans on the periphery of your team's territory. With that, if the Knights don't locate the AHL team in either Salt Lake or Reno, I see no reason to even move it from Chicago.

Putting the AHL team in Fresno just puts the Knights top farm team in a less accessible location from Las Vegas with much more competition for the loyalty of the local Fresno fans.

Reno, Salt Lake, or somewhere in the midwest. That's where the team should be. Forget the East coast, forget the Central Valley. Salt Lake, Reno, or the Midwest. That's it.

Maybe so. It's simply become a thing in the west. I'm a former Kings fan, so can tell you they looked at the move of the AHL team to Ontario CA, right there next to LA, as a big deal. It eradicated some issues they had seen in callups not getting to the team in time for games due to travel from Manchester, and also the brain trust enjoyed watching their near-NHL prospects live.

Ducks also have done that with the Gulls in San Diego. And of course there are other teams like the Leafs that do that with the Marlies for the same reasons. I think it's a trend we'll see more of as teams try to align their minor systems, due to those inherent advantages.

Vegas is kind of tough, granted. So who knows maybe they'll stay with Chicago for ten plus years. But I doubt the deals they set up now will represent their long term strategy. We'll see down the road I guess.
 

BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
12,069
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Bellevue, WA
For sure, I understand what you're saying.

When it comes to other teams and their comparisons, it makes a lot of sense to move the teams west. If you're in LA for half of your games it's got to be tough to get guys that spend half of their season in Manchester, NH to a Kings game unless the Kings are playing on the east coast. Even then, you've got to find a way to get them out of Manchester on a plane and once you do, you've got at least one layover if you're flying them commercial.

Chicago's a different story. Centrally located in the continent and in a city with one of the world's major airport hubs which makes road call ups a lot easier than it would be if they were in Manchester or Utica.

If you can keep the team in Chicago, it's not a bad move. If they do prefer to AHL team a little closer to home, I hope they put it in a place where the fans of the AHL team can easily transition into Knights fans due to a regional connection. I don't think putting the team in California allows for those fans to move over to Vegas through the years, and it also makes the call ups a little more difficult than if they were playing in Chicago.

750,000 people fly to Las Vegas from Chicago every year, I'd be surprised if 5% of that number traveled between Fresno (for example) and Las Vegas via commercial airline annually.

Salt Lake City and Reno have multiple flights every day to Las Vegas and are logical "breeding grounds" for future Vegas Golden Knights fans.
 

PuckProphet

Registered User
Apr 28, 2017
92
0
In Chicago, the two AHL teams are geographically far away enough to where they generate their own fanbase. The Wolves marketing directly competes with the Blackhawks.. The Ice Hogs well they are the sweat hogs like a few posters mentioned they are subject to the whims of the parent team ( the reported reason the Ice Hogs coach got fired). Many times the Ice Hogs and Blackhawks games do not compete because its a different tv area and like i said 2 hour drive minimum for those in the vicinity of those to teams to get to the stadium. The Wolves have a substantial tv and marketing presence...
Proximity is not the issue..(unless its driving distance saves on airfare) The idea of family or friends flights getting picked up by the parent team is nonsense...
The issue is where is will present the semblance of working...independently
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
105,742
18,871
Sin City
Having been to a SJ Barracuda game and seen the dismal attendance first-hand, my hope is that they eventually move over to Fresno. Seems like a good fit.
...
I also can't see the Knights getting an AHL team in California. The Pacific Division already has 8 teams, and I remember hearing that the AHL commissioner said that when the league expands to 31 teams, that new team will be in the Central Division (presumably to move either Charlotte/Cleveland into the Eastern Conference). This is why the rumors of the Chicago Wolves being the Vegas affiliate and the Blues getting a new affiliate of their own in KC gained so much traction.

Not gonna happen. Billionaire owner Hasso Plattner wants the Cuda at the SAP. The organization wants their kids close at hand.

They will subsidize the low attendance for the foreseeable future.

Those costs don't begin to compare to the travel costs of cross country travel, much less the personal wear and tear of that travel.

Walking across the hall, even carrying your own equipment, is much simpler.

I think the AHL proximity thing is overblown, especially in a place like Las Vegas or Los Angeles where there's a flight coming from most places every couple of hours.

If someone's in Chicago, there's three flights they can jump on right now and get to Las Vegas in four hours. Plus, Chicago is centrally located with access to two huge airports for road game call ups. I realize that's not the case in places like Winnipeg or perhaps places like Raleigh and Nashville, but we're pretty okay with flights at McCarran since it's once of the country's largest airports.

The real benefit of having an AHL team in your area is to pick up some fans on the periphery of your team's territory. With that, if the Knights don't locate the AHL team in either Salt Lake or Reno, I see no reason to even move it from Chicago.

Putting the AHL team in Fresno just puts the Knights top farm team in a less accessible location from Las Vegas with much more competition for the loyalty of the local Fresno fans.

Reno, Salt Lake, or somewhere in the midwest. That's where the team should be. Forget the East coast, forget the Central Valley. Salt Lake, Reno, or the Midwest. That's it.

How often do you travel between time zones? How have you dealt with jet lag?

How often are you flying 3000+ miles twice a week?

Do you know how that will impact your on ice performance in the best hockey league in the world?

Not having to call up someone "days" in advance for a game also means they can stay with the AHL team for a (home) game Friday before being called up Saturday morning for an injured/ill body replacement. Often means the AHL team has a better result on that Friday game with the guy in the lineup rather than not having him.
 

ShatteredGlass

∞ Posts Deleted :)
Dec 19, 2011
778
0
Pittsburgh / Vegas
Interesting. Reminds me of the 2006/07 season when The Penguins & Oilers shared the AHL affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. IIRC the Oilers had the same situation the season before with Dallas & the Iowa Stars.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Interesting. Reminds me of the 2006/07 season when The Penguins & Oilers shared the AHL affiliate in Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. IIRC the Oilers had the same situation the season before with Dallas & the Iowa Stars.

not quite, Edmonton shuttered their franchise, Shattered, until the League forced them to reactivate it, in OKC, now the AHL Condors, which had originally been set up in Toronto's backyard (where the Marlies now play), then the '04/05 NHL Lockout occurred and abruptly the Roadrunners went from Toronto (where they were locked out of Ricoh) AND Ended in Edmonton in August, after the master schedule had been released, the abomination of a 5 way affiliation backfired on the Oilers developmental philosophy. thanks WK for the Blues update :)
 

nickp91

Registered User
Jun 29, 2011
722
627
I expect a Vegas-Chicago Wolves affiliation Will take time for Vegas to stock prospect pipeline
 

PuckProphet

Registered User
Apr 28, 2017
92
0
This agreement sheds light on the draft.... The idea of young players the idea of developing players the idea no bad contracts ....
The Wolves have an established fan base ....Implement aggressive marketing ...Where it will change is the past prime names the Wolves always have on the ice.. I remember a game where they had Adam Burrish on the team he scored a hat trick was men among boys ...it was a couple of years after he was out of the NHL..Despite the good showing he was not going back to the NHL ..This year is was Wisniewski Other years it was Chelios or Sopel ....
thinking while great for ticket sales those days will end and the idea of developing players will take hold ....It may be now the Knights take developing players in the expansion over NHL 3 or 4th lines It may be the Knights plan to use every draft pick they can get..
It signals to me a 5 or 10 year plan piecemeal a team together rather than fill roster with whats available... Those east coast teams have had some success picking up who they can get ....sometimes not .... The idea of prospects and projects may just may create the condition of following the good players to the big league thus gathering fans as they go .....
A couple of their guys did contribute in the NHL didn't follow with the Blues did follow with the Nucks.... they had 42 guys on the team last year ....I can see why sharing some moving some ....well its the only option
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
This agreement sheds light on the draft.... The idea of young players the idea of developing players the idea no bad contracts ....
The Wolves have an established fan base ....Implement aggressive marketing ...Where it will change is the past prime names the Wolves always have on the ice.. I remember a game where they had Adam Burrish on the team he scored a hat trick was men among boys ...it was a couple of years after he was out of the NHL..Despite the good showing he was not going back to the NHL ..This year is was Wisniewski Other years it was Chelios or Sopel ....
thinking while great for ticket sales those days will end and the idea of developing players will take hold ....It may be now the Knights take developing players in the expansion over NHL 3 or 4th lines It may be the Knights plan to use every draft pick they can get..
It signals to me a 5 or 10 year plan piecemeal a team together rather than fill roster with whats available... Those east coast teams have had some success picking up who they can get ....sometimes not .... The idea of prospects and projects may just may create the condition of following the good players to the big league thus gathering fans as they go .....
A couple of their guys did contribute in the NHL didn't follow with the Blues did follow with the Nucks.... they had 42 guys on the team last year ....I can see why sharing some moving some ....well its the only option

I think it's challenging enough, to a) get the Knights up and running first of all, and b) one reason why they held off setting up 2 new cities and having Chicago established already benefits Vegas short and long-term.

McPhee's pretty good at it, also, as Portland had him after Poile jumped to Nashville, pre-2005.....
 

PuckProphet

Registered User
Apr 28, 2017
92
0
I think it's challenging enough, to a) get the Knights up and running first of all, and b) one reason why they held off setting up 2 new cities and having Chicago established already benefits Vegas short and long-term.

McPhee's pretty good at it, also, as Portland had him after Poile jumped to Nashville, pre-2005.....
No yea i like it ....it sets up instant infrastructure with a team that is established that takes winning seriously. The agreement sets up the potential of non local fans ( anyone that goes to a Wolves game has a high probability to go to Vegas see a Knights game) For years that area wanted a casino taking a guess i would bet most Wolves fans also visit the local casino ... Chicago area transplant ratio etc etc There is real upside to this partnership
 
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derriko

Registered User
Mar 7, 2009
4,615
446
Las Vegas
I expect a Vegas-Chicago Wolves affiliation Will take time for Vegas to stock prospect pipeline

I think that's why they chose Chicago. The Wolves are not really a developmental team, they max the vets out and try to win.

Normally that wouldn't be ideal for prospect development, but the coffer will be so bare that won't matter much in the interim. Makes a lot of sense to match up these two.

I think this goes a couple years, then when there's a couple drafts worth of prospects you see Vegas get an independent AHL team.
 

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