Prospect Info: Minnesota Wild Prospect Rating - #12

[Dr Jan Itor]

Name something that Kunin has over Greenway currently?

Better shot.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

My top 10:

Kaprizov
Kunin
Greenway
Sokolov
Seeler
Belpedio
Soucy
Shaw
Lodnia
Kahkonen

 

[Wabit]

Sokolov over all of the d-men? Interesting.

 

[2Pair]

Better shot.

Kunin has a great shot, can't say it's better than Greenway's. Greenway had a goal in the NCAA tournament this year that was unreal.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Sokolov over all of the d-men? Interesting.

Upside.

 

[Wabit]

Upside.

Fair enough. His floor is just too low for my liking. He's either boom or bust.

 

[Digitalbooya]

How would I know that Greenway is better than Kunin? You serious? Ya see, these two guys play for my favorite hockey team. I like to watch that team play hockey. From watching that team play hockey, I have noticed that Jordan Greenway plays the game of hockey better than Luke Kunin does.

That isn't intended as a knock on your Badger buddy in any way shape or form. It was simply a comment/reply to Wabit's list of prospects where I disagreed with his order. Sorry if your feelings are hurt.

Maybe a bit of recency bias at hand here. Bet you at the beginning of the year people were saying the exact opposite cause one was playing in the NHL and the other wasn’t. Same applies here.

I’d say between the two here’s what each are better at:

Kunin:
-better shot
-better defensively
-better at playing center (both played it in college)
-intangibles (more captain material, not necessarily a hockey skill)

Greenway:
-protecting the puck
-passing
-ability to take a hit

Neutral:
-neither are fast or slow. Very average speed

Funny enough, I think Kunin is more willing to dish a hit than Greenway. Not sure that should stay in his mindset. If he learns to keep his feet moving he will be much more of an impact player.

Anyways, I’ll take the guy who is supposed to be the better goal scorer. And no, it’s not because he played for Wisconsin. It’s because Kunin has been a better goal scorer at every level prior to this and I fully expect him to be better at the NHL level when he is fully developed. Greenway doesn’t have to change his style much due to his size, hence an easier adjustment period to the NHL.

Carry on.

 

[2Pair]

Maybe a bit of recency bias at hand here. Bet you at the beginning of the year people were saying the exact opposite cause one was playing in the NHL and the other wasn’t. Same applies here.

I’d say between the two here’s what each are better at:

Kunin:
-better shot
-better defensively
-better at playing center (both played it in college)
-intangibles (more captain material, not necessarily a hockey skill)

Greenway:
-protecting the puck
-passing
-ability to take a hit

Neutral:
-neither are fast or slow. Very average speed

Funny enough, I think Kunin is more willing to dish a hit than Greenway. Not sure that should stay in his mindset. If he learns to keep his feet moving he will be much more of an impact player.

Anyways, I’ll take the guy who is supposed to be the better goal scorer. And no, it’s not because he played for Wisconsin. It’s because Kunin has been a better goal scorer at every level prior to this and I fully expect him to be better at the NHL level when he is fully developed. Greenway doesn’t have to change his style much due to his size, hence an easier adjustment period to the NHL.

Carry on.

You're right, a year ago I would've had Kunin slightly ahead of Greenway. Then I watched them both play in the NHL and now I have it reversed. I'm not knocking Kunin in any way, I think Greenway is the better prospect. I could see myself changing my mind again next january.
Better shot- Very close
Better deffensively- Nope and not close
better at center- Sure, I guess. Although, if either play center in the NHL. my money would be on Greenway
Intangibles- Sure. show me a way to measure that
Skating- Not close
Physicallity- You serious?
Goal scoring- Hope you're right.

 

[57special]

I think Lodnia has more upside than Sokolov. I'm pretty sure he has grown and is over 6' now.

Greenway is a funny player. Even in college he'd look pretty passive, then he'd have a brief flurry where he would mow over people and look unstoppable. I think he'll need to beef up before he does that on a regular basis in the NHL, and even then, he needs to pick his spots. I'm excited about his skating, length, and overall hockey IQ, rather than his brute strength/toughness.

Kunin is a more willing hitter, but he has to make sure he doesn't overdo it. He is an average sized guy, and he won't be able to withstand the pounding. Reminds me a bit of when Granlund was trying to impress Yeo with his "grittiness" (and I'm sure Yeo loved it) and was giving himself concussions running into players shoulders with his head. Kunin is a bit bigger and stronger, but someone has to tell him that we drafted him in the first round for his skill/shot, not to "grind".

 

[Wabit]

I think Lodnia has more upside than Sokolov. I'm pretty sure he has grown and is over 6' now.

I watched part of the NFL draft. They have the players measured to 1/8". For hockey they just seem to ask players how tall they feel.

I'd really be curious to see how tall some players really are with their shoes off.

Hockeydb has Lodnia at 5'11" and eliteprospects has him at 5'10".

 

[57special]

a few months later, how do you guys see this list? any big risers?

Well, Seeler, if he still counts. Olofsson is a faller, for me. Can't seem to stay healthy, and while flashes some skill, he always looks a tweener out there.

 

[Digitalbooya]

What about Greenway makes you think his shot is anywhere close to Kunin’s? Greenway hasn’t scored more than 20 goals for any team he’s played for since 2012-13 when he played midget hockey for Shattuck St. Mary’s U16. In college, Kunin’s two year combined goal totals blow Greenway’s three year combined goal totals out of the water (41 in 2 vs 28 in 3).

It’s not close. Like at all.

Defensively - it is close and Kunin is better IMO
Intangibles - Kunin was captain of several teams (WJC U20 USA, Wisconsin, WJC U18 USA, USDP U18, USNTDP junior team. Alternate captain for WHC U17 USA, USDP U17). Clearly a lot of people think he’s a good leader. Greenway was captain zero times and alternate captain just once and that was this past year at BU.
Physicality - In reference to Kunin being more willing to dish a hit? It’s true. Protecting the puck is a different story. This is where reading comprehension is important.
Goal scoring - I will be right. No doubt in my mind. Greenway isn’t a goal scorer.

 

[57special]

I watched part of the NFL draft. They have the players measured to 1/8". For hockey they just seem to ask players how tall they feel.

I'd really be curious to see how tall some players really are with their shoes off.

Hockeydb has Lodnia at 5'11" and eliteprospects has him at 5'10".

I thought I read somewhere that he was over 6'. A lot of those sites are using old measurements. Agree that most athletes now lie like crazy about their height. As one former NHL'er told me, "There's no such thing as a true 5'11" guy, they are always 6'. "

5'9 1/2"- 5'10" guys turn into 5'11".

Same thing in baseball. A kid on my son's BB team is listed as 6'1". I'm an 1" taller than him, at least...I'm a hair over 6'. Basketball is REALLY crazy.

 

[Wabit]

Well, Seeler, if he still counts. Olofsson is a faller, for me. Can't seem to stay healthy, and while flashes some skill, he always looks a tweener out there.

Olofsson's health is a concern. I do think the Olofsson/Reilly 10 games on 10 games off hurt both of them this year. They were both playing scared when they did get on the ice. Any time they started to get some confidence in their games they went back to the pressbox.

 

[Wabit]

I thought I read somewhere that he was over 6'. A lot of those sites are using old measurements. Agree that most athletes now lie like crazy about their height. As one former NHL'er told me, "There's no such thing as a true 5'11" guy, they are always 6'. "

5'9 1/2"- 5'10" guys turn into 5'11".

Same thing in baseball. A kid on my son's BB team is listed as 6'1". I'm an 1" taller than him, at least...I'm a hair over 6'. Basketball is REALLY crazy.

Does it really matter much for basketball and height? Really friggin tall isn't an acceptable measurement I guess. Wingspan is the new FotM for the NBA measurements.

Baseball is bad about it too, but it's not a huge factor in anything. It's such an individual/noncontact sport that size doesn't mean a whole lot unless someone is Altuve size and trying to break into the pros.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

What about Greenway makes you think his shot is anywhere close to Kunin’s? Greenway hasn’t scored more than 20 goals for any team he’s played for since 2012-13 when he played midget hockey for Shattuck St. Mary’s U16. In college, Kunin’s two year combined goal totals blow Greenway’s three year combined goal totals out of the water (41 in 2 vs 28 in 3).

It’s not close. Like at all.

Defensively - it is close and Kunin is better IMO
Intangibles - Kunin was captain of several teams (WJC U20 USA, Wisconsin, WJC U18 USA, USDP U18, USNTDP junior team. Alternate captain for WHC U17 USA, USDP U17). Clearly a lot of people think he’s a good leader. Greenway was captain zero times and alternate captain just once and that was this past year at BU.
Physicality - In reference to Kunin being more willing to dish a hit? It’s true. Protecting the puck is a different story. This is where reading comprehension is important.
Goal scoring - I will be right. No doubt in my mind. Greenway isn’t a goal scorer.

Is scoring two goals in 19 games versus scoring one goal in 11 games proof of anything?

We'll see what kind of player Kunin is when he hits the ice in November. His health is a major question for next season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Is scoring two goals in 19 games versus scoring one goal in 11 games proof of anything?

We'll see what kind of player Kunin is when he hits the ice in November. His health is a major question for next season.

Very likely not.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Very likely not.

It doesn't say much for Kunin at least. Also Greenway's goal was a terrific shot in case people have already forgotten the playoffs. He scored a similar one in the tourney. Throughout his career he's used his hands and his protection skill to be a playmaker primarily, and been effective at it. Shooting is something that he's working on and apparently getting much better at. His straight-line speed might be better than Kunin's too - that was a shock to me. Greenway having a full summer with pro strength training, pro skating and agility training, and a full fall training camp makes him number two easily for me.

 

[Wabit]

Is scoring two goals in 19 games versus scoring one goal in 11 games proof of anything?

We'll see what kind of player Kunin is when he hits the ice in November. His health is a major question for next season.

I keep hoping that Kunin will heal fast and he's ready for at least part of training camp. It was an early March injury, so mid-September would be the 6mo mark.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Is scoring two goals in 19 games versus scoring one goal in 11 games proof of anything?

We'll see what kind of player Kunin is when he hits the ice in November. His health is a major question for next season.

I’m not the one posting about comparing two players just based on their NHL games. Sub 20 NHL games for both; nowhere near a good enough sample size to compare. That’s the reason I brought playing careers prior to the NHL into the equation. Kunin has been far and away the better goal scorer at those levels.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I keep hoping that Kunin will heal fast and he's ready for at least part of training camp. It was an early March injury, so mid-September would be the 6mo mark.

I hope so too, but the reports keep mentioning that he's a long-shot to be ready. Either way, he loses the benefit of summer training.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I’m not the one posting about comparing two players just based on their NHL games. Sub 20 NHL games for both; nowhere near a good enough sample size to compare. That’s the reason I brought playing careers prior to the NHL into the equation. Kunin has been far and away the better goal scorer at those levels.

I bet if Greenway was still in high school he'd be a goal-scoring machine. In other words, I'll take the guy doing things in the NHL.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I bet if Greenway was still in high school he'd be a goal-scoring machine. In other words, I'll take the guy doing things in the NHL.

What exactly did he do in the NHL that Kunin didn’t? Again, this is where recency bias comes into play.

 

[Wabit]

I bet if Greenway was still in high school he'd be a goal-scoring machine. In other words, I'll take the guy doing things in the NHL.

And neither have done much of anything in the NHL so far.

It's really hard for me to even compare their NHL time this season.
-Greenway walked into a stable lineup at the end of the year.
-Kunin was a bandaide for a team decimated by injury with no real cohesion: Coyle, Granny, Nino, Parise were all out some or all of the time he was up. Cullen, Ennis, Foligno, and Winnik were still learning the Wild's system. JEE was still as green as could be.

 

[SomethingGeneric]

1. Kaprizov
2. Kunin
3. Greenway
4. Seeler
5. Lodnia
6. Belpedio
7. Sokolov
8. Kahkonen
9. Shaw
10. Soucy

#1-3 and 5-7 were both very tough for me. I'm not as high on Soucy as some people. Hope we sign Kahkonen and Sokolov soon. Would suck to lose two top 10 prospects for nothing. Looking for healthy, productive years for Kunin and Shaw coming off injury. Pre-draft this doesn't look horrible, need to continue to add good skilled players though.