Mikko Rantanen Part III

Status
Not open for further replies.

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
40,800
20,390
Hopefully they can get a deal done that'll be good for both sides. If he starts looking for Draisaitl money then I wouldn't be opposed to just playing it out and waiting until next year. Ideally you don't want to play hard ball with one of your best players but make him do it again before making him a top 10 paid player.

The problem is if he does it next year again you're not looking Drai money, you're looking a lot more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McMetal and cgf

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
40,800
20,390
I think the Draisaitl deal raised the bar for elite young Centers...

I dont think it's raised that bar nearly as much for elite young wingers.


Case in point, David Pastrnak and his recent deal, signed after the Draisaitl contract. He's only making 6.6M despite having a 75 point season last year as well.


Rantanen will get a little more because he's got better numbers, and the cap is likely to be almost 10% higher then it was when Pasta signed his deal.


7.25M seems like the perfect number for Rants IMO.

Pasta signed a 6 year deal, for Rants you have to look at 2 years of cap inrease as well.
 

Barklez

Bednar Fanboy
Mar 27, 2011
1,710
1,416
BC
If anywhere from 7-8 gets him to sign for 8 years this summer I think you have to do it. Worst case scenario he consistently puts up 60+/year, the cap grows through the contract, and it’s a wash. Best case scenario, you’re laughing in 2 years when him and Mack continue to tear the league to shreds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AvsGuy and cgf

McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
Sep 29, 2015
14,053
11,947
The Avs M.O. has been to take their time with young RFAs. It didn't burn them with MacK, but it might if they try to do the same with Rants. He is showing absolutely no signs that this is a fluke year for him. If anything, he has gotten better and better as the year went on. If it was me I would lock him up now, but as we know Sakic never learns a lesson until he makes a mistake first.
 

Barklez

Bednar Fanboy
Mar 27, 2011
1,710
1,416
BC
The Avs M.O. has been to take their time with young RFAs. It didn't burn them with MacK, but it might if they try to do the same with Rants. He is showing absolutely no signs that this is a fluke year for him. If anything, he has gotten better and better as the year went on. If it was me I would lock him up now, but as we know Sakic never learns a lesson until he makes a mistake first.

Example?

I thought the Sakic bashing ended with the Duchene trade.
 

Murzu

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 23, 2013
6,116
9,139
Finland
I honestly believe it will be under 8M per year for him with 7-8 years. He doesn't strike me as a person who tries to get every possible dollar from the team.
 
Last edited:

Bender

Registered User
Sep 25, 2002
17,183
8,366
The team isn't just going to give Mikko $8M per year after negotiating with MacKinnon a long-term deal for 7 years after 3 NHL seasons where he put up over 50pts+ per year on mostly a non-playoff team.

I think they'll try to sign Mikko long-term this summer to a $6M-$6.25M deal but if that can't be worked out, I expect them to wait until the following year to be 3 years removed from when they negotiated that deal with MacKinnon. (to allow for inflation, Chiarelli to set in)

I know some people think there's an internal cap and some people don't but I do think that it matters to a certain extent. The MacKinnon deal now looks like it's the best in the entire league.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rantanen took the 8 year - $6M per deal. I understand it's a business but does he truly want to be the highest paid player on the team? You have to remember that the team has the leverage and could opt to offer him a shorter term deal for less money (like Tampa did with Kucherov) as well.

There's risk on both sides: the team assumes the risk of paying him like a star player after a good rookie year (on an abysmal team) and 1 year of exceptional production. The player assumes the risk that if his play drops off significantly over the next 8 years, he'll still be paid like a star player and won't need to continually need to prove himself.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: New Scotlander

Murzu

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 23, 2013
6,116
9,139
Finland
I totally get your point @Bender but I also think it's a tad optimistic. I wouldn't be surprised though if Rantanen's deal would be between 6.5-7M annually. But I also wouldn't be suprised if it was 8x8 sort of deal. The market has changed a little since MacKinnon signed his deal. Thank goodness we managed to sign MacK to his current deal, only wish there was the 8th year also :laugh:
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
I'm not going to make a guess about what number Rantanen signs for, but if they do a deal this offseason I think for sure Sakic was use his play with MacKinnon was injured as evidence that he shouldn't get massive numbers. A strong case can be made that the majority of Rantanen's success statistically has been due to playing with MacKinnon, and the evidence is his 1 goal, 3 assists and overall mediocre play in the 7 games MacKinnon missed.

Now personally I think Rantanen is very good player who is going to be an absolute beast in a few years. But if we're basing his contract on right now I think you have factor in that he's a complimentary player. He may be the very best complimentary player in the league, but that appears to be what he is at this point in his career.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
59,988
19,060
w/ Renly's Peach
I'm not going to make a guess about what number Rantanen signs for, but if they do a deal this offseason I think for sure Sakic was use his play with MacKinnon was injured as evidence that he shouldn't get massive numbers. A strong case can be made that the majority of Rantanen's success statistically has been due to playing with MacKinnon, and the evidence is his 1 goal, 3 assists and overall mediocre play in the 7 games MacKinnon missed.

Now personally I think Rantanen is very good player who is going to be an absolute beast in a few years. But if we're basing his contract on right now I think you have factor in that he's a complimentary player. He may be the very best complimentary player in the league, but that appears to be what he is at this point in his career.

*1 goal & 5 assists...as he got two assists in the game MacK got injured after MacK left the ice. Which is still a 70 point pace and worth big money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: McMetal and Barklez

Barklez

Bednar Fanboy
Mar 27, 2011
1,710
1,416
BC
*1 goal & 5 assists...as he got two assists in the game MacK got injured after MacK left the ice. Which is still a 70 point pace and worth big money.

Obviously this is just my eye test and counts for nothing but it also looked to me that, just before Mack got back, Rants looked like he was adapting he game to playing without him and was on the brink of taking over games on his own.

I’ve got nothing to back that up with but I was seeing flashes. Anybody else notice that or was I imagining things?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf

Selzoons

Registered User
Mar 3, 2018
113
74
*1 goal & 5 assists...as he got two assists in the game MacK got injured after MacK left the ice. Which is still a 70 point pace and worth big money.
MacKinnon was on ice for Rantanen's first assist against Vancouver. However, Rantanen did get an assist after MacKinnon got a match penalty versus Arizona. 6 points in 8 games, 60 point pace.

But I don't understand what point people who discredit Rantanen for that stretch without MacKinnon are trying to make. Were Rantanen's numbers not supposed to drop? Kerfoot has been garbage for the past two months and couldn't hope to replace MacKinnon on the top line even when he was playing well. That experiment was quickly scrapped and Rantanen was put with Jost and Compher. Being generous to Jost and Compher, they're 3rd liners at this point in their careers. It's not like they stacked the top line and went with Landeskog-Soderberg-Rantanen while MacKinnon was out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf

Steerpike

We are never give up
Feb 15, 2014
1,790
1,734
Colorado
MacKinnon was on ice for Rantanen's first assist against Vancouver. However, Rantanen did get an assist after MacKinnon got a match penalty versus Arizona. 6 points in 8 games, 60 point pace.

But I don't understand what point people who discredit Rantanen for that stretch without MacKinnon are trying to make. Were Rantanen's numbers not supposed to drop? Kerfoot has been garbage for the past two months and couldn't hope to replace MacKinnon on the top line even when he was playing well. That experiment was quickly scrapped and Rantanen was put with Jost and Compher. Being generous to Jost and Compher, they're 3rd liners at this point in their careers. It's not like they stacked the top line and went with Landeskog-Soderberg-Rantanen while MacKinnon was out.

I can see the point that MacKinnon can employ cheat codes which don't rely on great line-mates, while Rantanen inherently plays a much more COMPLEMENTARY game. Rantanen winning pucks for Nate is much more meaningful than winning pucks for Kerfoot/Jost/Compher, so without Nate his points will drop.

In a sense his numbers are propped up by MacKinnon, but tremendously good COMPLEMENTARY players aren't easy to find. Just look at our endless endeavor to turn young centers into wingers.

I.e. I think he's worth 8-9 per.
 
Last edited:

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,056
6,154
Denver
burgundy-review.com
A guy puts up 80 points he's going to get paid, there's no way around it. If he doesn't hit 80 next year it doesn't matter. When a guy has that on the resume he's going to cash in. It's not like he's arrived out of nowhere. He can point to being the team's leading goal scorer last year and winning the ROY in the AHL the year before that. Mikko is going to be around a long time, there's no reason to haggle him. He's done everything asked of him. The cap space is there, take care of your necessities before going out and blowing money on the market.
 

BleedWell

Registered User
Jan 6, 2018
1,117
512
MacKinnon was on ice for Rantanen's first assist against Vancouver. However, Rantanen did get an assist after MacKinnon got a match penalty versus Arizona. 6 points in 8 games, 60 point pace.

But I don't understand what point people who discredit Rantanen for that stretch without MacKinnon are trying to make. Were Rantanen's numbers not supposed to drop? Kerfoot has been garbage for the past two months and couldn't hope to replace MacKinnon on the top line even when he was playing well. That experiment was quickly scrapped and Rantanen was put with Jost and Compher. Being generous to Jost and Compher, they're 3rd liners at this point in their careers. It's not like they stacked the top line and went with Landeskog-Soderberg-Rantanen while MacKinnon was out.
Good post. Some people are saying that Rants is this good mostly becouse of Mac and when Mac was out he wasn't this good. The fact is that nobody knows what would happen if Mac would have to play without Rants. Mac hasn't played without him in 90 games. So it is safe to say that those two playing together pumps up both of their numbers. When Landy was suspended four games, and he's the least talented one, they didn't produce much. So what I'm saying is we have one of the best lines in hockey and we should be over the moon about it. Not trying to put the success just on one or two players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf

Iceberg

Registered User
May 4, 2002
4,760
1,105
He is not an UFA, Sakic will wait to give him a long term deal. No need to rush.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Good post. Some people are saying that Rants is this good mostly becouse of Mac and when Mac was out he wasn't this good. The fact is that nobody knows what would happen if Mac would have to play without Rants. Mac hasn't played without him in 90 games. So it is safe to say that those two playing together pumps up both of their numbers. When Landy was suspended four games, and he's the least talented one, they didn't produce much. So what I'm saying is we have one of the best lines in hockey and we should be over the moon about it. Not trying to put the success just on one or two players.

To be clear, since I'm the one who brought it up - I don't genuinely think Rants is only this good because of Mac. I was talking about things from a contract negotiation perspective. I do think Rants is a complimentary player at this point, but that means he helps Mac as much as Mac helps him. No way is Mac this productive if he doesn't have linemates who can keep up with him.

My point was, if you're trying to guess his next salary, you have to take into account that Sakic & Co could easily argue that Rants' production is a byproduct of Mac's superpowers.
 

GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,046
9,677
I would never argue that Rantanen is a byproduct of Mac, it would ruin our relationship with him. Just negotiate with an upper cap being 8 mill and push for 8 years. I think Rantanen will be good for a LONG time. Having cap certainty is a bonus that can't be understated. If we know we have our core players locked up, its so much easier for our cap experts to figure out a way to help add support. Theres no point in sitting on cap space.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->