Mike Gartner:"Players will bend but not break"

[RangerBoy]

Even though the players stress that they will never accept a salary cap, Gartner said that the players will do what they have to do strike a deal.

"Do we have to bend a little more? We're willing to, and we've shown that we're willing to bend more than we have to enter an area of negotiations," Gartner said.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20050111_150115_5292

Is this the voice of reason needed to bring both sides to the table?

Click to read more...

 

[WrightOn]

Is this the voice of reason needed to bring both sides to the table?

If it's the voice of God.....

 

[FLYLine27*]

If it's the voice of God.....

What position does he hold in the in the NHLPA? Its obviously not a player...

 

[Digger12]

What position does he hold in the in the NHLPA? Its obviously not a player...

From the article:

Gartner retired in 1999 and currently heads up the NHLPA's Goals and Dreams program.

It's amusing hearing this conciliatory talk from him, considering he was one of the biggest hardline "players are essentially slaves" hawks back in his days as NHLPA President.

Kinda pokes a hole or two in the assertion from the PA that they blew their wad on their last proposal, huh?

 

[FLYLine27*]

From the article:


Gartner retired in 1999 and currently heads up the NHLPA's Goals and Dreams program.

Thanks

 

[GKJ]

Gartner was also the last NHLPA president before Trevor Linden

 

[BLONG7]

This is the first time that a PA guy has admitted they will not win this battle...Interesting, I wonder if Goodenow will make him retract his statement tomorrow?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

This is the first time that a PA guy has admitted they will not win this battle...Interesting, I wonder if Goodenow will make him retract his statement tomorrow?

The NHLPA has never been trying to WIN the battle. They're willing to make serious concessions. They're just trying to not get destroyed in this battle.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The NHLPA has never been trying to WIN the battle. They're willing to make serious concessions. They're just trying to not get destroyed in this battle.

But the perception is that they are not against the owners, but the fans in this. In the small and mid-sized market at least. That is why they are losing the perception war. And I really think that the experience with baseball has given them little leeway with the fans as far as good opinion goes.

I would expect the players in baseball to get a similar reception in 2006 should they call a strike.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

Mike Gartner needs to shut his yap. Accept the damn cap and lets this game back on ice you greedy fools. All the players want is keep taking more and more and more from owners from fans, and poor teams until there is a 12 team league with 100 million payroll for each team, and the Shean Donovans of the world can pass a towel to Iginla, or sharpen his skate.

 

[tantalum]

Well all I can say is you the NHLPA better start bending backwards a lot more if they hope to play hockey this year. If the season is cancelled the, owners are seriously going to make the NHLPA bend the other way....over the table. AS someone mentioned above the NHLPA isn't trying to "win" but the longer this goes on the increased likelihood that they will get destroyed. The sooner they accept the owners framework the more likely they are to get higher caps, better free agency, arbitration etc...

What I get out of this is a well connected NHLPA guy laying the groundwork for the NHLPA executive to get out of this corner they backed themselves in by essentially saying the last offer they gave was as good as it is going to get. Now of course anyone with any sort of brain knows the last NHLPA and NHL offers were just the fleshing out of beginning positions and knew that all along. But the NHLPa hasn't been playing that in the PR department and have basically been promoting that when it comes to the major issues the proposals on both sides were take it or leave it offers.

But really all these ex-players including former NHLPA executives are really not that solidly behind the union in this. I find that extremely curious. Gartner is as pro-NHLPA as you can really get and here he is saying the union needs to give more concessions. That is odd.

 

[Nomad]

Why should the players accept a cap? A cap, as proposed, won't work. Gartner is right in that the players have bent and are most likely willing to bend more. Thus far the owners have not bent at all. Small market clubs are the ones most likely to be hurt by a salary cap along the lines of what the NHL is proposing anyway, and it amazes me that their fans are more in favor of a salary cap with no effective revenue sharing than they are of a system that redistributes money along the lines of what the NHLPA proposed. Hell, the PA's last proposal had more idea for the survival of the smaller markets than anything the NHL has recognized.

The only ones expecting to out and out win this battle are the owners. The players have already guaranteed that they can not do so, as the concessions they have offered already are extensive. The league needs to stop and look at the overall situation, because the longer this goes on, the more entrenched in their ideas the players are going to become. Every month that passes means a drop in future revenues for the league because of a disinterested fan base - and lower revenues means lower salaries for the players if the league has its way. All the more reason for the players to hold firm until the league decides to make its first concession.

 

[chara]

What he's saying...

"We'll swallow the cap but not the rollback, i.e. we'll bend but not break"

 

[Sanderson]

Why should the players accept a cap? A cap, as proposed, won't work. Gartner is right in that the players have bent and are most likely willing to bend more. Thus far the owners have not bent at all. Small market clubs are the ones most likely to be hurt by a salary cap along the lines of what the NHL is proposing anyway, and it amazes me that their fans are more in favor of a salary cap with no effective revenue sharing than they are of a system that redistributes money along the lines of what the NHLPA proposed. Hell, the PA's last proposal had more idea for the survival of the smaller markets than anything the NHL has recognized.

A salary cap doesn't hurt small market teams one bit, more the opposite.

The only thing that might hurt small market teams is a salary floor, but if a team isn't able to survive with something like this, then they don't belong in the NHL.

 

[Nomad]

That's what I am getting at. The salary floor that is proposed is too high for a large number of teams to be profitable (would actually end up costing them money based on the latest finances alongside the Levitt Report). And those are the teams that this whole thing is allegedly being catered towards. Without them, then the league's claim for the need for the salary cap is pretty much out the window anyway.

 

[Schlep Rock]

Mike Gartner needs to shut his yap. Accept the damn cap and lets this game back on ice you greedy fools. All the players want is keep taking more and more and more from owners from fans, and poor teams until there is a 12 team league with 100 million payroll for each team, and the Shean Donovans of the world can pass a towel to Iginla, or sharpen his skate.

This is interesting... so the players are taking the fans money?

I never thought of it that way. Next time I'm in Gap or Target or the super market I guess I'll have to yell at the associates for taking my money!

 

[Sanderson]

Well, I'm sure the league could live without a salary floor, but they have to make it look as nice as possible for the players.

Just like the 24% roleback was more of a teaser for the owners.

 

[eye]

They're just trying to not get destroyed in this battle.

You mean like they did to the owners and the fans who had to pay rediculous ticket prices to see them play the past dozen years.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

That's what I am getting at. The salary floor that is proposed is too high for a large number of teams to be profitable (would actually end up costing them money based on the latest finances alongside the Levitt Report). And those are the teams that this whole thing is allegedly being catered towards. Without them, then the league's claim for the need for the salary cap is pretty much out the window anyway.

That's a point I've looked at and wondered about myself. The salary floor is a concession given to the players to show that the league will guarantee a certain level of pay from all teams, and that the discrepancy between the top and bottom teams will be closed on both ends. As you have mentioned this may create greater risk for the those teams already having trouble to his the median salary levels. I have considerd that and come up with this theory/explanation of the salary floor.

I think the NHL has offered this up, in combination with the salary cap, as not only a control, but a method of expectation management for the franchises. I think the NHL could be tired themselves of certain owners crying poor and are setting the structures up to make them get into the game as well. I think this will also weed out the weaker franchises and force relocation to true hockey markets able to sustain a team, or will force them to fold all together. There may be some method to the madness and this will insure that the league is strong by setting up a structure where good ownership can be brought in for franchises in trouble or these franchises can be culled to make the league healthier. If you look at the numbers, the majority of the teams can make the salary floor. Only the franchises in bad hockey markets will continue to struggle. This may be a very good thing and get hockey back to the markets where the sport will thrive.

 

[eye]

This is interesting... so the players are taking the fans money?

I never thought of it that way. Next time I'm in Gap or Target or the super market I guess I'll have to yell at the associates for taking my money!

Now your starting to get the picture. By buying merchandise you are in effect paying for their wages and creating work for them. If fans don't buy tickets to see NHL hockey players don't get paid and many will lose their jobs. Welcome to the real world.

 

[MarkZackKarl]

ha

How could anyone be as ignorant as to believe that the ticket prices are based on a team's salary budget?

 

[eye]

That's a point I've looked at and wondered about myself. The salary floor is a concession given to the players to show that the league will guarantee a certain level of pay from all teams, and that the discrepancy between the top and bottom teams will be closed on both ends. As you have mentioned this may create greater risk for the those teams already having trouble to his the median salary levels. I have considerd that and come up with this theory/explanation of the salary floor.

I think the NHL has offered this up, in combination with the salary cap, as not only a control, but a method of expectation management for the franchises. I think the NHL could be tired themselves of certain owners crying poor and are setting the structures up to make them get into the game as well. I think this will also weed out the weaker franchises and force relocation to true hockey markets able to sustain a team, or will force them to fold all together. There may be some method to the madness and this will insure that the league is strong by setting up a structure where good ownership can be brought in for franchises in trouble or these franchises can be culled to make the league healthier. If you look at the numbers, the majority of the teams can make the salary floor. Only the franchises in bad hockey markets will continue to struggle. This may be a very good thing and get hockey back to the markets where the sport will thrive.

Exactly. A salary floor is a huge concession by owners that gets little to no acknowledgement by the players or the PA. Players have been offered a good deal that can be negotiated into a great deal for all concerned but GoodEGOnow is too proud pr too stubborn to conceed to Bettman - it's that simple.

 

[Schlep Rock]

Now your starting to get the picture. By buying merchandise you are in effect paying for their wages and creating work for them. If fans don't buy tickets to see NHL hockey players don't get paid and many will lose their jobs. Welcome to the real world.

eye,

There's nothing for me to "get".

Despite what people think whenever the NHL does come back, fans will to. Yes, some fans will be lost but fans will still be in the seats and this could be argued forever so don't bother.

What I am trying to point out to GFG is that he is complaining players are taking his money. The team is taking your money and they have decided what each of their employees are worth (players included) and they pay them out. The players are taking the teams money which they are providing them with. The receptionist is taking the teams money.

So if fans don't buy tickets a player gets fired? Sounds like the real world to me

 

[eye]

How could anyone be as ignorant as to believe that the ticket prices are based on a team's salary budget?

explain please

 

[eye]

eye,

There's nothing for me to "get".

Despite what people think whenever the NHL does come back, fans will to. Yes, some fans will be lost but fans will still be in the seats and this could be argued forever so don't bother.

What I am trying to point out to GFG is that he is complaining players are taking his money. The team is taking your money and they have decided what each of their employees are worth (players included) and they pay them out. The players are taking the teams money which they are providing them with. The receptionist is taking the teams money.

So if fans don't buy tickets a player gets fired? Sounds like the real world to me

You see if players don't conceed on the simple issue of cost linkage and allow this entire season to be cancelled then average fans like myself won't be back. Greedy players that live in a fantasyland will not get another penny of my hard earned money. I would pay to see replacement players next year or the year after but if current NHL players don't come back they won't get another penny from me and I think there are thousands more that feel the same way.