Player Discussion Mika Zibanejad [Warning Post #3]

[Loff]

 

[haveandare]

It really has nothing to do with Brass.

On that note, I highly doubt you will ever see #93 will this team into the playoffs the way Brass and Dstep did.

Aside from that, I think I’ve stated more than enough reasons why I dislike this situation.

My main problem is actually more with management then the actual player.

He should never have been in put the position in the first place.
It was destined to fail before it even started.
If you look at #93’s career as a whole, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he should be this teams top line center.

The proof?
It’s on the ice.
This is easily one of the worst NYR teams to ever hit the Garden ice and that’s not debatable.
And before you even say it, every team deals with injuries.

This is a huge gamble for this team.
Do you really think having him as our #1 center while he’s one hit away from retirement is really a wise move?
It’s going to end up setting this team back years if it ever happens..

This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. This is all opinion with nothing really propping it up.

How did Brass and Step "will this team into the playoffs"? They scored in the high 50s. Did Kreider will us into the playoffs last year with his point totals? In terms of points per game played, which is admittedly flawed if you're concerned about Mika's injury history first and foremost, I believe Zbad has outproduced them both as Rangers. I haven't done the math, but I think he's above them or neck and neck with them in points per game as Rangers just glancing at the numbers quickly.

Regarding whether he should or shouldn't be this teams top center, this team isn't gunning to win this year, it was pretty obvious since the draft. Guys who inarguably should be top centers are rare and extremely difficult to acquire. Neither Stepan nor Brassard were ever those types of players either. How, and equally importantly why would this team acquire one of those guys in this season they're trying to start a rebuild in?

This team being bad isn't an indictment on Mika in particular. Again, they didn't ice this team thinking they'd win a cup. You don't trade a 50ish point veteran center like Stepan for a draft pick and a young project d-man if you're trying to win a cup. Looking back it's pretty obvious. A team doesn't put Desharnais in as a regular center and honestly think they're going to win, for example.

For your last paragraph, do you think Pittsburgh having Crosby as their 1C while he's one hit away from retirement is really a wise move? He has as much concussion history if not more. Yes, he's a vastly superior player, but that makes the potential for him being hit into retirement even worse in terms of setting his team back. Seems to be working out okay for them. Hockey is a dangerous game, especially at the NHL level. Every player is a hit away from retirement if it's the wrong hit at the wrong time. Look at Pronger.

You've stated that you dislike him and why but you haven't done anything to show that the reasons you perceive him to be a poor player actually exist outside of your perception of him. I think thats why repeating it so much rubs people the wrong way. Say you're outside with someone walking on a nice day. You keep remarking how it's so nice out and the sky is so blue. The person you're with says, "no the sky is red." You ask them how that's possible and they say "it's so obvious, just look, the proof is in the sky." This happens over and over during your walk. You're going to get annoyed. That's whats happening here. If you care about people being annoyed, which you're free to do or not do, make the point less or back it up with something objective.

 

[kovazub94]

That's rich coming from someone that's managed to piss off every poster he's ever come in contact with..

Dare to take a head to head poll against @Machinehead to see which one of you actually "managed to piss off every poster ever to come in contact with"?

 

[Levitate]

Personally I'd say that Zibanejad is more skilled and better suited to be a 1C than either Stepan or Brassard, IF he can stay healthy and put in a whole season playing like he is now.

Of course I'd expect some down stretches and all so when I say "play like he is playing now" I don't necessarily mean score like he's scoring now, but being part of a top line that's a threat every game.

He's more talented and more likely to hit that top player level but yeah, stay healthy somehow

 

[Edge]

Personally I'd say that Zibanejad is more skilled and better suited to be a 1C than either Stepan or Brassard, IF he can stay healthy and put in a whole season playing like he is now.

Of course I'd expect some down stretches and all so when I say "play like he is playing now" I don't necessarily mean score like he's scoring now, but being part of a top line that's a threat every game.

He's more talented and more likely to hit that top player level but yeah, stay healthy somehow

I'd love to see him have that 82 game stretch where he has linemates he clicks with, where he's healthy, and a coach/system that exploits his best attributes.

Obviously, I know it's unreasonable to expect this kind of play every game. But I truly believe Zibanejad has 30 goal/70 point potential.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I'd love to see him have that 82 game stretch where he has linemates he clicks with, where he's healthy, and a coach/system that exploits his best attributes.

Obviously, I know it's unreasonable to expect this kind of play every game. But I truly believe Zibanejad has 30 goal/70 point potential.

Trading Brassard, who’s five years older and will not likely ever reach those numbers for what you just described...what the hell was Gorton thinking?

 

[Edge]

Trading Brassard, who’s five years older and will not likely ever reach those numbers for what you just described...what the hell was Gorton thinking?

I liked Brassard, but I thought/still think it was a very good move. I thought Zibanejad, flaws and all, was pretty darn close to being equal with Brassard at the time of the trade --- much closer than a lot of people realized.

Regardless of one's thoughts about Zibanejad, at the very least, it was a solid trade for the Rangers.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I liked Brassard, but I thought/still think it was a very good move. I thought Zibanejad, flaws and all, was pretty darn close to being equal with Brassard at the time of the trade --- much closer than a lot of people realized.

Regardless of one's thoughts about Zibanejad, at the very least, it was a solid trade for the Rangers.

I was thrilled with the deal, and quite frankly a little surprised that the Rangers were able get him and a 2nd for Brassard.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Did I miss the season that Stepan and brassard willed the team into the playoffs?

I think everyone will agree if this team was willed by any single player it was hank

 

[JohnC]

First, you have to understand his method of evaluating defense. If a goal was scored and a player he would like to rail against was on the ice, reason becomes optional and he will find a way to pin that goal on that player.

I know you’re talking about that boob NYR just by reading this.

His Girardi and Staal are better than Yandle schtick was hyesterical.

Surprised people pay attention to him tbh.

 

[Thirty One]

I know you’re talking about that boob NYR just by reading this.

His Girardi and Staal are better than Yandle schtick was hyesterical.

Surprised people pay attention to him tbh.

You are wise.

 

[Siddi]

I know you’re talking about that boob NYR just by reading this.

His Girardi and Staal are better than Yandle schtick was hyesterical.

Surprised people pay attention to him tbh.

He is going the OnlytheTruth route very fast.

 

[JohnC]

He is going the OnlytheTruth route very fast.

I don’t know who Only the Truth is but there’s no way he’s a higher boob than NYR

 

[Kakko]

All I want next season is Mika and Kreider, healthy and together, for the whole season. I like Buch in the 3rd spot. I like Fast in the 3rd spot. I'd probably like a traffic cone in the 3rd spot.

Maybe they wouldn't be inconsistent if they didn't get pulled apart after one bad game. Or avoided breaking legs and blood clots.

Just let them play.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t know who Only the Truth is but there’s no way he’s a higher boob than NYR

Oh its close.

 

[kovazub94]

Oh its close.

They are like Kreider - Zibanejad (lol) together. And there’s a third to play Buchnevich (lol again).

 

[eco's bones]

I don't think Mika's proven himself a legit 1st line caliber center yet and that that will have to be revisited again next year......but I've been a lot happier with his play over the last month or so. It's not just the points and goals which he needs to get at least into the 60's with but he's been playing a lot harder and tougher game. He's been using his size and strength on opponents a lot more effectively than we've seen so far from him in his previous time as a Ranger. If he continues to do that I would expect better goals and points total to continue to get better and he will almost certainly emerge as one of the team's leaders. To get the best out of his game he needs to use all his tools and size/strength are part of his package.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Seguin-lite

 

[Mikos87]

These are pressure free games for Mika. I'd like to see him translate this into carrying the team next year.

He's a good dude and it's good to see him play freely. He needs to keep it up next year.

He and Kreids make a legit top line pairing. I think having a responsible player next to them like Fast is a good option, it Jesper can get his hands a little firmer then it allows the Rangers to have some real options.

Especially with a Zucc trade to free up space and capture an asset.

 

[Nopuckluck]

I don’t have anything against Mika personally. True I’m not a big fan but he’s put up good numbers. My problem is I think he’s a number two. He hasn’t shown me any drive or ability to be The Man without Kreider. A number 1 is The Man period, not invisible when his favorite winger isn’t playing.

 

[Leonardo87]

Who is hating on Mika? He has been one of the silver linings to this team this year. Seeing him on the PP makes me excited again when they draw a penalty. The chemistry with Kreider has been excellent but both players have contributed to that. That duo has been fun to watch, and both are playing some of their best hockey right now even when this team is entering a rebuild, and will not make the playoffs.

 

[NYR]

This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. This is all opinion with nothing really propping it up.

How did Brass and Step "will this team into the playoffs"? They scored in the high 50s. Did Kreider will us into the playoffs last year with his point totals? In terms of points per game played, which is admittedly flawed if you're concerned about Mika's injury history first and foremost, I believe Zbad has outproduced them both as Rangers. I haven't done the math, but I think he's above them or neck and neck with them in points per game as Rangers just glancing at the numbers quickly.

Regarding whether he should or shouldn't be this teams top center, this team isn't gunning to win this year, it was pretty obvious since the draft. Guys who inarguably should be top centers are rare and extremely difficult to acquire. Neither Stepan nor Brassard were ever those types of players either. How, and equally importantly why would this team acquire one of those guys in this season they're trying to start a rebuild in?

This team being bad isn't an indictment on Mika in particular. Again, they didn't ice this team thinking they'd win a cup. You don't trade a 50ish point veteran center like Stepan for a draft pick and a young project d-man if you're trying to win a cup. Looking back it's pretty obvious. A team doesn't put Desharnais in as a regular center and honestly think they're going to win, for example.

For your last paragraph, do you think Pittsburgh having Crosby as their 1C while he's one hit away from retirement is really a wise move? He has as much concussion history if not more. Yes, he's a vastly superior player, but that makes the potential for him being hit into retirement even worse in terms of setting his team back. Seems to be working out okay for them. Hockey is a dangerous game, especially at the NHL level. Every player is a hit away from retirement if it's the wrong hit at the wrong time. Look at Pronger.

You've stated that you dislike him and why but you haven't done anything to show that the reasons you perceive him to be a poor player actually exist outside of your perception of him. I think thats why repeating it so much rubs people the wrong way. Say you're outside with someone walking on a nice day. You keep remarking how it's so nice out and the sky is so blue. The person you're with says, "no the sky is red." You ask them how that's possible and they say "it's so obvious, just look, the proof is in the sky." This happens over and over during your walk. You're going to get annoyed. That's whats happening here. If you care about people being annoyed, which you're free to do or not do, make the point less or back it up with something objective.

Haveandare
I fail to see how anything you posted is anything other than opinion as well.
Do I really need to post numbers from a website to confirm facts?
You can easily just look for yourself.

How can you compare what Stepan and Brassard or Kreider have accomplished in the playoffs to Zbad?
Step and Brass have been huge contributors to this teams success when it counted.
Stanley cup finals
Presidents trophy
Conference finals
Other than a small sample size of last season's playoffs where they didn't even make it past a garbage OTT team, what has Zbad ever done?

He's been in the league for 7 years and has a whopping 4 playoff goals to show for it so please don't tell me he even remotely compares to a Stepan or Brassard, who also happen to play complete games.

Hell..Even JT Miller has out produced Zbad so far this year by 8 points.

Zbad has exactly 23 5v5 points in 64 games this year and just because he's put together a small string of games together in the beginning of the season and then again now when there's nothing to play for is hardly a claim for #1 center.
Not even close..

Also..You're fooling yourself if you think JG didn't have every intention on completely going for it with the retool.
He's flat out admitted his plan was a complete failure..

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Haveandare
I fail to see how anything you posted is anything other than opinion as well.
Do I really need to post numbers from a website to confirm facts?
You can easily just look for yourself.

How can you compare what Stepan and Brassard or Kreider have accomplished in the playoffs to Zbad?
Step and Brass have been huge contributors to this teams success when it counted.
Stanley cup finals
Presidents trophy
Conference finals
Other than a small sample size of last season's playoffs where they didn't even make it past a garbage OTT team, what has Zbad ever done?

He's been in the league for 7 years and has a whopping 4 playoff goals to show for it so please don't tell me he even remotely compares to a Stepan or Brassard, who also happen to play complete games.

Hell..Even JT Miller has out produced Zbad so far this year by 8 points.

Zbad has exactly 23 5v5 points in 64 games this year and just because he's put together a small string of games together in the beginning of the season and then again now when there's nothing to play for is hardly a claim for #1 center.
Not even close..

Also..You're fooling yourself if you think JG didn't have every intention on completely going for it with the retool.
He's flat out admitted his plan was a complete failure..

Wth r u talking about? You both WERE talking about willimg them just to get in the POs. In this post you pretended like it was about actual PO performance. At least you admitted here that what you've been saying is just opinion with "some numbers" behind it.

I like how z has less PO games and you pretend that's his fault and means anything other than his teams sucked more. I can't recall z ever being surrounded w teams as good as the 14 rangers. Not a good comparison and point.

Tye red sky point was perfect. Your argument is informed by twisted facts , ignoring inconvenient facts and hyperbole. It's a bad argument.

Again i agree there are flaws w z. He disappears too often, doesn't maximize his talent, weak on D. Its fair to be concerned w him being our 1c. I agree he should be a 2 or a 1b. Why go so hyperbolic and use such a poor argument?

Also I'm amused by the frequent usage of the lazy "they dont compare" argument here on HF. Seems like it's being used when people CAN and HAVE made valid comparisons.

Compare brass and zbad's 1st years in the league, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Compare apples to apples. Until brass was brought here to a stacked nyr team how many po wins did he have? What was that, his 7th or 6th year in the league?

So we saw brass do nothing in the POs for 7 seasons (which zbad actually did well in his PO appearance w us). We saw that some players finally reach the playoffs and perform great later in their career. But you decided it's a certainty zbad won't do this...even tho he already was good for us on a much weaker team...?

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Brass: starting w his 31 gp season and looking at 6 seasons total-- zero PO games.

Zbad: starting w his 42 gp season. 5 seasons 3 PO appearances. Near ppg performance in the latter two appearances

Guess zbad willed those teams to the POs too. Except he did it THREE times, in fewer seasons and he did it as a much younger player than brass was. Or maybe its a team sport and a variety of factors influence a guy making the POs and you're choosing to ignore this to draw conclusions that just dont make sense.

1st few seasons point totals:
Zbad 20 33 46 51 (injury shortened) 37.
Bras 25 36 47 41 (lockout season) 29

I like how NYR brought up JT Miller. Hows he been in the POs compared to zbad? How was his overall game this year as a NYR? Guess we only look at things like this when it's convenient.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Not sure which part is my favorite; the one where he calls Brassard a “complete player” compared to Zibanejad or the one where he compares Mika to Miller who has 1 goal in 40 playoff games after destroying Mika about the playoffs.

Mika also has decent playoffs stats too. Extrapolated over 82 games, he’d produce 50 points which is good considering how much better the competition is and how much less space there is in the playoffs. But remember folks, it’s Mika’s fault the coach decided to play his worst players in the most crucial situations last year.