Confirmed with Link: #MelnykOut Campaign - successfully raised 8K over this past weekend.

[Sensung]

On a more serious note, I can't say definitively what the organization will look like to regain my trust. They could re-sign EK/Stone/Duchene but if it comes at the expense of current expenses, I can't get behind that. The problem I see is that spending is so often addressed by Melnyk as a zero-sum game, but I'm not sure how fair or accurate that is. A bit of extra spending on game day ops and/or marketing could lead to more ticket sales. A bit more expenditure in scouting and player salaries could lead to a more consistently competitive team.

And I have no use for the crying poor, either – this is a team that sold out games regularly for a very long time. A team that hasn't had to face any massive costs for arena redesign, like some other teams. A team that undoubtedly still makes money hand-over-fist on concessions. Even if the team itself isn't profitable (which would hardly be a surprise, given that hockey teams are usually written off as capital losses anwyay,) the arena ownership surely is. And if, for whatever reason, that's still money Eugene isn't willing to invest into his product, then he does the fans, the city and himself a disservice by holding on.

All that to say – I'm not sure what a path back to trusting this team will look like. But just as breaking my faith didn't happen overnight, a return to my former levels of enjoyment won't be a quick and painless process.

Fantastic post!

 

[Deku]

So he never said it, right?

What reason would they have to trade Karlsson besides not wanting to pay up for him?

 

[Sensung]

We are all still allegedly fans of the same team.. what's seemed to really piss people off is other people telling them what things they have to do to be a "real" or "true" fan.

Bingo. Which is precisely why I made my tongue in cheek post.

Too bad some are too dense to process this fact.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

What reason would they have to trade Karlsson besides not wanting to pay up for him?

I don't know, I can, like everyone else does, speculate.

It could be that Erik Karlsson made it clear (Wednesday Nov 29th) that he will not entertain taking a "hometown discount" to stay with the Senators, beyond next season.

His actual words were ....“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going................ that’s the business part of it. That’s the way every player has been treated ever since this league has started, and I think the players have been a little bit on the other side of things when it comes to negotiations. I think it’s time to realize that when we go to the table, it’s business on both parts, not just (owners)..........I like it here, I’m comfortable here, I’ve been here my whole career, it’s something that I invested all my time in and something I would like to see all the way through. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if it’s not the right fit and it’s not going to work out business-wise, then you’re going to have to look elsewhere because that’s what (owners) are going to do, as well.”




Everyone remembers Pierre Dorion and his "even Gretzky was traded" comments made two weeks LATER, on December 13th, 2017 ...... and blame him for starting the trade Karlsson rumour.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

I don't know, I can, like everyone else does, speculate.

It could be that Erik Karlsson made it clear (Wednesday Nov 29th) that he will not entertain taking a "hometown discount" to stay with the Senators, beyond next season.

His actual words were ....“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going................ that’s the business part of it. That’s the way every player has been treated ever since this league has started, and I think the players have been a little bit on the other side of things when it comes to negotiations. I think it’s time to realize that when we go to the table, it’s business on both parts, not just (owners)..........I like it here, I’m comfortable here, I’ve been here my whole career, it’s something that I invested all my time in and something I would like to see all the way through. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if it’s not the right fit and it’s not going to work out business-wise, then you’re going to have to look elsewhere because that’s what (owners) are going to do, as well.”




Everyone remembers Pierre Dorion and his "even Gretzky was traded" comments made two weeks LATER, on December 13th, 2017 ...... and blame him for starting the trade Karlsson rumour.

Why should we be asking the undisputed best defenceman in the league to be taking a hometown discount? He's the type of player you build a team around, not the kind you nickel-and-dime to death.

I'd also point out that a large part of why Gretzky was traded in the first place was because Oilers owner Peter Pocklington was in desperate need of money. So I can certainly see the similarities in the situations.

 

[Deku]

I don't know, I can, like everyone else does, speculate.

It could be that Erik Karlsson made it clear (Wednesday Nov 29th) that he will not entertain taking a "hometown discount" to stay with the Senators, beyond next season.

His actual words were ....“When I go to market, I’m going to get what I’m worth, and it’s going to be no less, no matter where I’m going................ that’s the business part of it. That’s the way every player has been treated ever since this league has started, and I think the players have been a little bit on the other side of things when it comes to negotiations. I think it’s time to realize that when we go to the table, it’s business on both parts, not just (owners)..........I like it here, I’m comfortable here, I’ve been here my whole career, it’s something that I invested all my time in and something I would like to see all the way through. But at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if it’s not the right fit and it’s not going to work out business-wise, then you’re going to have to look elsewhere because that’s what (owners) are going to do, as well.”




Everyone remembers Pierre Dorion and his "even Gretzky was traded" comments made two weeks LATER, on December 13th, 2017 ...... and blame him for starting the trade Karlsson rumour.

As DATW stated, Karlsson shouldn’t be expected to take a discount. So if a signing hinges on that, the org is still cheaping out.

 

[Sensung]

I don't know, I can, like everyone else does, speculate.
Everyone remembers Pierre Dorion and his "even Gretzky was traded" comments made two weeks LATER, on December 13th, 2017 ...... and blame him for starting the trade Karlsson rumour.

Actions have consequences.

Who was the only owner who couldn't keep his mouth shut during the last lockout?

Who was the owner who lowballed Ek's mentor, Alfie (NHLPA rep), on his last contract?

If your hero was spending to the cap and trying to win, then EK would likely be singing a different tune. As long as he is in cheap prick mode, there is ZERO incentive for Karlsson to give him a hometown discount and large amounts of agent and PA pressure to make Melnyk feel some of the PAIN he promised.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Thanks to those who took time to read and respond to my post whether you agreed or not. I just want to put it out there that I will not read or respond to the posters (your know who you are) who choose to group those who disagree with them as pro-EM, or apologists, or any other derogatory grouping titles.

It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write. This is not an issue where some people have all of the information and others don't, nor is it an issue that one group of people understand properly, while others do not. It is an issue where there are probably as many specific perspectives as their are fans, but one thing I don't ever see in here is a single poster saying that they are happy with the current ownership.

I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue. I am not an EM fan in the slightest, but I'm also not a fan of that type of ill conceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it. Already folks are moving the posts to claim responsibility over all conversation surrounding the team, when the reality is that EM will not engage with any of these folks, nor will management respond to questions about the billboard the campaign, or any of it.

There is next to no coverage about any of this on my side of the country, people just don't care in the slightest. It's not national news, it's non-news, which is a shame because a positive campaign could have been the darling of the media, and appreciated by management, the team, ownership, and the NHL as a whole. Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.

As it stands there is not a single owner that would support this type of campaign regardless of what they think of EM, the media barely touches it outside of Ottawa, and as we've seen, the team will continue to ignore it completely.

Could have and should have been done better, what a wasted opportunity.

 

[stempniaksen]

the media barely touches it outside of Ottawa

That's simply not true. The day the billboards went up there was coverage in the National Post, through NBC in the states. Friedman also talked about it at length on Vancouver radio and it was discussed at length on Montreal radio as well. Outside of Brennan's articles (and a few segments on The Drive) it's probably got more coverage outside of Ottawa than in the city.

 

[coladin]

I actually agree with you here.

From the beginning, my objections have been to actions from Melnyk that I do not like and agree with.

We have been bandying back and forth how damaging those actions really are and what should be done about it, and in that conversation I cannot agree that people who choose to buy tickets are a problem.

They are fans and consumers spending their hard earned money on something they enjoy, and for their own reasons. Just like people who don't are exercising that same choice.

We are all still allegedly fans of the same team.. what's seemed to really piss people off is other people telling them what things they have to do to be a "real" or "true" fan.

Unfortunately, the economics of the NHL business model is not at the level of the other major league sports like NBA, NFL and MLB where the arenas can be empty and thanks to their TV contracts, they will still make money. The NHL is still ticket driven to a larger extent. Of course, the other 3 leagues would like full stadiums to make more money and have profits, sign key players, etc...

I think Melnyk deserves credit for securing a really good TV deal, especially compared to other Canadian markets. I think Calgary is at around $8M or something? Not 100% sure, but something around that. I think if they can have paid attendance like last night, the team will be just fine. Prices were high last night too. Back in the days where the place was papered with freebies, it would have been an announced sellout for sure.

Bryden didn't beat around the bush when it came to blackmailing the city and the annual ticket drives. Melnyk is also disappointed with sales, but did state in that fateful interview disaster before the outdoor game that they are doing "just ok". I think whoever owns the team, no matter how rich they are, will not be happy with empty seats, no owner would be.

But they are going to have to find a way to get people excited about the team and signing Karlsson , Duchene and Stone will go a long way for the season ticket base. And Melnyk desperately needs the playoff revenue. A long way as many are waiting in the wings to sign up. For those who are too far gone, nothing short of Melnyk leaving will do, which isn't going to happen.

 

[Sensung]

There is next to no coverage about any of this on my side of the country, people just don't care in the slightest. It's not national news, it's non-news,

As others have already pointed out, this is simply not true.

People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more..

The vast majority of name calling surrounding Melynkout has been done by individuals attacking the movement. Don't take my word for it though, just check out the facebook page.

I do appreciate how well you write and the tone of your posts. Even if we disagree you have my respect.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Thanks to those who took time to read and respond to my post whether you agreed or not. I just want to put it out there that I will not read or respond to the posters (your know who you are) who choose to group those who disagree with them as pro-EM, or apologists, or any other derogatory grouping titles.

It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write. This is not an issue where some people have all of the information and others don't, nor is it an issue that one group of people understand properly, while others do not. It is an issue where there are probably as many specific perspectives as their are fans, but one tphing I don't ever see in here is a single poster saying that they are happy with the current ownership.

I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue. I am not an EM fan in the slightest, but I'm also not a fan of that type of ill conceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it. Already folks are moving the posts to claim responsibility over all conversation surrounding the team, when the reality is that EM will not engage with any of these folks, nor will management respond to questions about the billboard the campaign, or any of it.

There is next to no coverage about any of this on my side of the country, people just don't care in the slightest. It's not national news, it's non-news, which is a shame because a positive campaign could have been the darling of the media, and appreciated by management, the team, ownership, and the NHL as a whole. Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.

As it stands there is not a single owner that would support this type of campaign regardless of what they think of EM, the media barely touches it outside of Ottawa, and as we've seen, the team will continue to ignore it completely.

Could have and should have been done better, what a wasted opportunity.

Wait a second... with all due respect, you start your post by expressing that you won’t respond to posters who use “derogatory group titles “. Yet you carry on with the following:

“It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write”.

“I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue.”

“I'm also not a fan of that type of illconceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it.”

“Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.”

Especially that last phrase there about name-calling.

Is this one of those “don’t do as I do, do as I say” type of situation?

 

[Qward]

Who was the owner who lowballed Ek's mentor, Alfie (NHLPA rep), on his last contract?

Not to mention the same owner that then emailed Alfie telling him he is not worth the money he wanted and he is trying to hurt the team. AFTER Alfie agreed to an extra year on his contract at 1 million to lower the cap hit for the team.

 

[coladin]

Wait a second... with all due respect, you start your post by expressing that you won’t respond to posters who use “derogatory group titles “. Yet you carry on with the following:

“It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write”.

“I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue.”

“I'm also not a fan of that type of illconceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it.”

“Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.”

Especially that last phrase there about name-calling.

Is this one of those “don’t do as I do, do as I say” type of situation?

I don't want to speak for Mr. Tray, but his point is that responding to those who label people who have a different opinion as "Melnyk lover" "pro-Melnyk" etc...those are the derogatory terms. Not necessarily what he stated afterwards which is his opinion. Many here who disagree with the MelnykOut people are labeled as such which cannot be further from the truth . Our approach to the problems simply differ from others here.

It just seems a very typical American attitude in here lately with regards to their political situation. Or in Canada how things are going with regards to divisive issues like police situations, aboriginal issues, or our provincial leadership race. Everyone lately is quick to judge and categorize.

 

[Handles1919]

Wait a second... with all due respect, you start your post by expressing that you won’t respond to posters who use “derogatory group titles “. Yet you carry on with the following:

“It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write”.

“I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue.”

“I'm also not a fan of that type of illconceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it.”

“Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.”

Especially that last phrase there about name-calling.

Is this one of those “don’t do as I do, do as I say” type of situation?

the usual really

 

[Ray Kinsella]

I don't want to speak for Mr. Tray, but his point is that responding to those who label people who have a different opinion as "Melnyk lover" "pro-Melnyk" etc...those are the derogatory terms. Not necessarily what he stated afterwards which is his opinion. Many here who disagree with the MelnykOut people are labeled as such which cannot be further from the truth . Our approach to the problems simply differ from others here.

It just seems a very typical American attitude in here lately with regards to their political situation. Or in Canada how things are going with regards to divisive issues like police situations, aboriginal issues, or our provincial leadership race. Everyone lately is quick to judge and categorize.

“Everyone is quick to judge and categorize.”

But that was my point entirely. Using derogatory words to point out others who use derogatory words.... my head is spinning.

 

[Grizwald]

This is really a simple problem that has unfortunately evolved into a not so simple solution:
I believe what the majority of fans have ever asked (wished) for is for Melnyk to act and run the team in a professional manner, ie. hiring and maintaining talented people to run the hockey operations properly, from President on down. That in all honesty is not too much to ask from his client base, the fans, who attend the games.

 

[Deku]

The whole “sign Stone, Karlsson, and Duchene and everything might blow over” is really dumb. Keeping your best players is bare minimum expectations and after doing that you still need to spend on pro scouting, amateur scouting, and player salaries to surround them with a winning team. I don’t trust our owner to do that

 

[Ice-Tray]

Wait a second... with all due respect, you start your post by expressing that you won’t respond to posters who use “derogatory group titles “. Yet you carry on with the following:

“It's weak-minded, disingenuous, inflammatory, and serves to minimize opinions instead of engaging them head on; it's not worth my time to even read, or yours to write”.

“I think the billboard was childish, insulting, and a poor approach to dialogue.”

“I'm also not a fan of that type of illconceived chest pounding and the mob mentality that followed it.”

“Instead of inspiring the massive middle ground of fans, most have distanced themselves from it because it's negative, petty, and insulting. People may not like EM, but they dislike resorting to name-calling and pettiness even more.”

Especially that last phrase there about name-calling.

Is this one of those “don’t do as I do, do as I say” type of situation?

I'm not sure if it's what I wrote, or your inability to understand it, but I will clarify.

What I was trying to get across is that I don't mind folks disagreeing with me in terms of how I view the current campaign, but don't friggin' label me an "EM lover" because I think the campaign is childish.

I go ahead and once again explain what I think of the campaign and why, and reiterate that I, like everyone else who has posted on the subject, feel like ownership has been the core of the issue.

I'm not sure where the confusion lies. I put thought into my posts, and try and share my opinions clearly.

Disagree all you want but I'm no EM apologist.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

I'm not sure if it's what I wrote, or your inability to understand it, but I will clarify.

What I was trying to get across is that I don't mind folks disagreeing with me in terms of how I view the current campaign, but don't friggin' label me an "EM lover" because I think the campaign is childish.

I go ahead and once again explain what I think of the campaign and why, and reiterate that I, like everyone else who has posted on the subject, feel like ownership has been the core of the issue.

I'm not sure where the confusion lies. I put thought into my posts, and try and share my opinions clearly.

Disagree all you want but I'm no EM apologist.

I didn’t call you anything. Btw, my understanding abilities are well in tact, but thanks for throwing that out there.

I don’t think you understood my point at all.
Moving on.....

 

[coladin]

“Everyone is quick to judge and categorize.”

But that was my point entirely. Using derogatory words to point out others who use derogatory words.... my head is spinning.

With all due respect, I don't think you have bee here long enough to realize how discussions used to be. You've basically arrived at the lowest point on HF, a true gong show with everyone insulting each other regularly, mods can't keep up. Everyone has had a part in it, including myself. It typically is when we discuss ownership. It is like a civil war.

So derogatory words to describe one's opinion as "childish" is not the same as labeling someone who disagrees with you a "Melnyk lover".

Hope that helps...or take an Advil Cold and Sinus!

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

With all due respect, I don't think you have bee here long enough to realize how discussions used to be. You've basically arrived at the lowest point on HF, a true gong show with everyone insulting each other regularly, mods can't keep up. Everyone has had a part in it, including myself. It typically is when we discuss ownership. It is like a civil war.

If you think this is the lowest point, you don't remember the Murray vs. Muckler times.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

With all due respect, I don't think you have bee here long enough to realize how discussions used to be. You've basically arrived at the lowest point on HF, a true gong show with everyone insulting each other regularly, mods can't keep up. Everyone has had a part in it, including myself. It typically is when we discuss ownership. It is like a civil war.

So derogatory words to describe one's opinion as "childish" is not the same as labeling someone who disagrees with you a "Melnyk lover".

Hope that helps...or take an Advil Cold and Sinus!

I took you seriously until the end of your post.

 

[coladin]

If you think this is the lowest point, you don't remember the Murray vs. Muckler times.

Oh I do, this is naaaasty...

 

[coladin]

I took you seriously until the end of your post.

The end was a joke , guess we can't do that anymore or maybe because coladin doesn't have a sense of humour