Meeting Day Thread 6/2

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WVP

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Mar 22, 2004
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The Messenger said:
Who do you think is pinning Linden on the ground and pressing his knee between Linden shoulder blades during the meetings to help move them along as progress made ?? :D
Linden would wail on Jacobs.
 

Marconius

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Jan 27, 2003
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JWI19 said:
I think what Kevin is saying is yeah some reporters are slim. But there are guys out there that still take pride in their work. So you cant paint them all with the same brush it's just that you have to know who stands for what. The story or the headlines and there is a vast difference between the two.

I just don't really think it's up to the individual reporter anymore though. The era of huge news/media conglomerants have seen to that. A reporter is nothing more then a tool for these huge corps to use as they see fit. If a reporter creates a story that goes against the owning corporation's interests, you can bet the story will never see the light of day. I don't blame the reporters for the most part, their jobs simply make them puppets.
 

quat

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Apr 4, 2003
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Marconius said:
I just don't really think it's up to the individual reporter anymore though. The era of huge news/media conglomerants have seen to that. A reporter is nothing more then a tool for these huge corps to use as they see fit. If a reporter creates a story that goes against the owning corporation's interests, you can bet the story will never see the light of day. I don't blame the reporters for the most part, their jobs simply make them puppets.

Do you read Canadian news papers? Even the "conservative" national papers are all pretty much left wing. I really think you are just trotting out a very tired line that bears nothing close to the truth. Back to bed Noam. ;)
 

Enoch

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Jul 2, 2003
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handtrick said:
It would also seem that the writers striving to take an objective take, or take with a balance are being held up as the "true journalistic heros" of this ordeal....and in the long run...will be the true winners.

Yes it would, but in a world of increasing dishonesty........It is becoming much more rare to find somone with noble intentions....Especially in a place with as much potential payoffs for misdeeds, misquotes, or misinformation as the media. My sincere thanks goes out to those that are able to present an objective stance to the best of their ability despite the circumstances - and that definitely extends to Bob Mckenzie and Kevin.
 

hubofhockey

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Aug 14, 2003
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Marconius said:
I just don't really think it's up to the individual reporter anymore though. The era of huge news/media conglomerants have seen to that. A reporter is nothing more then a tool for these huge corps to use as they see fit. If a reporter creates a story that goes against the owning corporation's interests, you can bet the story will never see the light of day. I don't blame the reporters for the most part, their jobs simply make them puppets.

Sincerely, that is one frightening interpretation.
kpd/hoh
 

hubofhockey

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Aug 14, 2003
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handtrick said:
excellent point on the definition of 'shill' and who is doing the reading.

To carry this one step further.....assuming the writer 'actually sees the world this way (on a particular issue)' or 'trying to cultivate one side for a future payback'.....wouldn't it seem that the outcry and label of being a 'shill' drive them back to the center?

It seems that everyone [that most could agree is a shill of one side or the other] has been pretty entrenched in their given rut throughout this mess.

It would also seem that the writers striving to take an objective take, or take with a balance are being held up as the "true journalistic heros" of this ordeal....and in the long run...will be the true winners.


I could go to many places with this answer, but to try to stay on point...

For me--and please take this as one man's warped view--I am guided most by my byline. To wit: I've put my name on it, and I want the words below my byline to be a true representation of how I feel, what I believe and what I have interpreted. The latter point--interpretation--is where it gets very sticky.
Some posters here, obviously, have a truly negative interpretation of what we do in the media. And the shills and cheats (though few among us) only play into their hands and embolden them (as said before, just as quack docs and dirty cops juice up their detractors). I would only encourage the reader, once he or she has gained confidence with a reporter/writer, to keep in mind that MUCH OF THIS IS GUESS WORK AT BEST. Each side of the CBA is spinning its stuff, and those of us trying to do the job in the middle, have to take it all in, separate fact from fiction, and ATTEMPT to provide an honest read. Often, the info provided is so bad, the read of the reporter ends up being bad too.
I tell young kids coming into the biz all the time: the key to the job isn't necessarily writing, or sourcing (though it helps)....the key to the job is developing the ability and sense and walk into a room and, in very short order, be able to decipher who is lying and why he/she is lying. Very tricky. The same guy who told you the truth the day before can be the same guy who sells you down the river the next. And, yes, I am sure there are sources who can say the same about reporters.
Another key point before I go: don't confuse a writer's opinion (clearly labeled in the paper as such--either with column logo, or otherwise) with a writer's ability to do the job in a straight news story. When offered the opportunity to ``columnize'', I've routinely referred to the labor side here as the JSNPA--the Just Say No Players Association (as in, NO to a CAP, and NO to Linkage). But when charged with the mission to provide a straight news story, I can do that. Not only can I do it, it's actually easier than the opinion piece (you'd have to do it to understand--sort of like dressage vs. horse racing).
Enuf, I'm beginning to bore myself, so it must be even worse on you.

kpd/hoh
 

SENSible1*

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hubofhockey said:
I could go to many places with this answer, but to try to stay on point...

For me--and please take this as one man's warped view--I am guided most by my byline. To wit: I've put my name on it, and I want the words below my byline to be a true representation of how I feel, what I believe and what I have interpreted. The latter point--interpretation--is where it gets very sticky.
Some posters here, obviously, have a truly negative interpretation of what we do in the media. And the shills and cheats (though few among us) only play into their hands and embolden them (as said before, just as quack docs and dirty cops juice up their detractors). I would only encourage the reader, once he or she has gained confidence with a reporter/writer, to keep in mind that MUCH OF THIS IS GUESS WORK AT BEST. Each side of the CBA is spinning its stuff, and those of us trying to do the job in the middle, have to take it all in, separate fact from fiction, and ATTEMPT to provide an honest read. Often, the info provided is so bad, the read of the reporter ends up being bad too.
I tell young kids coming into the biz all the time: the key to the job isn't necessarily writing, or sourcing (though it helps)....the key to the job is developing the ability and sense and walk into a room and, in very short order, be able to decipher who is lying and why he/she is lying. Very tricky. The same guy who told you the truth the day before can be the same guy who sells you down the river the next. And, yes, I am sure there are sources who can say the same about reporters.
Another key point before I go: don't confuse a writer's opinion (clearly labeled in the paper as such--either with column logo, or otherwise) with a writer's ability to do the job in a straight news story. When offered the opportunity to ``columnize'', I've routinely referred to the labor side here as the JSNPA--the Just Say No Players Association (as in, NO to a CAP, and NO to Linkage). But when charged with the mission to provide a straight news story, I can do that. Not only can I do it, it's actually easier than the opinion piece (you'd have to do it to understand--sort of like dressage vs. horse racing).
Enuf, I'm beginning to bore myself, so it must be even worse on you.

kpd/hoh

I can't speak for everyone else, but I find your input fascinating and wanted to thank you for offering it.
 

BobMckenzie

Registered User
Jul 23, 2003
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hubofhockey said:
I could go to many places with this answer, but to try to stay on point...

For me--and please take this as one man's warped view--I am guided most by my byline. To wit: I've put my name on it, and I want the words below my byline to be a true representation of how I feel, what I believe and what I have interpreted. The latter point--interpretation--is where it gets very sticky.
Some posters here, obviously, have a truly negative interpretation of what we do in the media. And the shills and cheats (though few among us) only play into their hands and embolden them (as said before, just as quack docs and dirty cops juice up their detractors). I would only encourage the reader, once he or she has gained confidence with a reporter/writer, to keep in mind that MUCH OF THIS IS GUESS WORK AT BEST. Each side of the CBA is spinning its stuff, and those of us trying to do the job in the middle, have to take it all in, separate fact from fiction, and ATTEMPT to provide an honest read. Often, the info provided is so bad, the read of the reporter ends up being bad too.
I tell young kids coming into the biz all the time: the key to the job isn't necessarily writing, or sourcing (though it helps)....the key to the job is developing the ability and sense and walk into a room and, in very short order, be able to decipher who is lying and why he/she is lying. Very tricky. The same guy who told you the truth the day before can be the same guy who sells you down the river the next. And, yes, I am sure there are sources who can say the same about reporters.
Another key point before I go: don't confuse a writer's opinion (clearly labeled in the paper as such--either with column logo, or otherwise) with a writer's ability to do the job in a straight news story. When offered the opportunity to ``columnize'', I've routinely referred to the labor side here as the JSNPA--the Just Say No Players Association (as in, NO to a CAP, and NO to Linkage). But when charged with the mission to provide a straight news story, I can do that. Not only can I do it, it's actually easier than the opinion piece (you'd have to do it to understand--sort of like dressage vs. horse racing).
Enuf, I'm beginning to bore myself, so it must be even worse on you.

kpd/hoh

Kevin, I can't help but notice how many postings you've made since I hit the century mark yesterday. You're just trying to make me look bad, aren't you? :D
 

handtrick

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Sep 18, 2004
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Chattanooga, TN
BobMckenzie said:
Kevin, I can't help but notice how many postings you've made since I hit the century mark yesterday. You're just trying to make me look bad, aren't you? :D

I think part of it was that he couldn't resist swinging at the knuckleballs I was tossing to him. ;)

Honestly....the rational insight that you two give on this board helps keep many of us going through this rollercoaster....
 
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