McMahon is easily the most controversial figure in Pro Wrestling History.

[beenhereandthere]

Copied and pasted and spot on.

Maybe so but the emphasis prior to WWWF changing to WWF and much later to WWE was on the sport. The competition itself. Audiences had a bit of doubt about what was real and what was fake. Thanks to Vince McMahon Jr. most of the fan's doubts went out the window. He turned professional wrestling into a laughing stock. A lot of people who weren't fan's before his take over didn't think much of it but he made potential fan's turn their heads around completely. No question that he made his product a huge commercial success but in doing so he killed the best part of the business. Before you get on your high horse about the talent still being athletes, yes, they are. But they are nowhere near to being actual professional wrestlers because they're more like glorified stunt persons risking their lives for a paycheck. Let's also not forget how Vince sees people. He sees us as a commodity. His roster is bought and sold with zero regard to them as human beings. He looks at his audience and doesn't see fans.. He sees marks. It's all about power and money to him. As for Eddie Mansfield, others have broken kayfabe long before him and wrestlers are still shooting today and always will be. When you work in the business it's your job to give fans a little bit of doubt about what is a shoot or a work. Vince doesn't leave any doubt that what you're seeing and hearing is a work.

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[Sheppy]

He also hid a murder (Snuka)
He basically killed Owen Hart (speculate that as you would)
The Melanie Pillman interview on RAW after Brians death was disgusting
The fact that he made basically every diva in the late 90's early 00's suck face with him

Guy is a f***ing piece of shit. That said, he's also a very smart guy. Read into that as you will. (Sorry Jussi, he is)

 

[BostonBob]

I will never forgive that POS for killing off the Montreal territory.

 

[Bondurant]

In Vince's defense the arguments against Vince in the OP are also true of most promoters. The only difference is the promoters of old, generally but not exclusively, honored territory. Vince just found a way to commercialize better than any promotion before or since.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

In Vince's defense the arguments against Vince in the OP are also true of most promoters. The only difference is the promoters of old, generally but not exclusively, honored territory. Vince just found a way to commercialize better than any promotion before or since.

That thing where he leaned into “sports entertainment” to get the athletic commissions’ hands out of his pockets musta been extremely satisfying for the old .

 

[Grackle Party]

All the best talent in the attitude era got over in spite of him and not because of him

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Don’t forget the ‘roid trials…..

 

[Hockeyholic]

Don’t forget the ‘roid trials…..

I remember when Stephanie Mcmahon compared what her Dad went through at the steroid trial to......9/11.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I remember when Stephanie Mcmahon compared what her Dad went through at the steroid trial to......9/11.

What a brainless tit.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

All the best talent in the attitude era got over in spite of him and not because of him

This is why I laugh when people say he's a genius and look at the stars he created.

Hogan - Was doing his thing in the AWA and Vince just plucked him and plugged him into the money machine.

Austin - Was the Ringmaster. Wasn't supposed to get the push in KOTR until Triple H f***ed up. Has repeatedly recounted the story that Vince was editing out the best parts of his promos until he told Vince to stop, because he couldn't compete with the roster size-wise.

Rock - Was getting, "Die Rocky Die", chants because Vince tried to slam him over as a smiley face. Didn't get over until he went heel and was allowed to do his own mic work. Other people (I believe Prichard or Michael Hayes) have told the story that Rock would stick to the script and Triple H would go off and run him down, and Rock had to be told you can go off script, but it better be good.

Cena - Has said multiple times he was on the verge of getting fired for trying to do his own thing, until Stephanie heard him rapping on a European tour and his gimmick took off.

Reigns - Couldn't get over as a face for years. Booed incessantly and barely had a few months where he was supported for legitimately beating Leukemia until the fans were sick of him again. Didn't get over until COVID killed live events and allowed them to turn him heel and do his own promos. (Likely influenced by Heyman)

Off the top of my head, the only megastar WWE created that was a Vince idea from day one was Undertaker, and that gimmick doesn't work with anybody else. Even then, some of Undertaker's most over work was under the biker gimmick, and there are claims out there that Vince begrudgingly allowed Undertaker to become the biker to appease him, as he was worried about losing any of his top stars to WCW.

 

[joestevens29]

At the end of the day he is going to go down in the history books as the guy that revolutionized Wrestling.

Sure he's a piece of shit, but so are a lot of billionaires from his era.

 

[DaaaaB's]

Revolutionized or ruined depending on who you ask. I don't think he ruined it but the industry probably would've been fine without him.

He's a piece of trash in every sense of the word and I don't think he's smart either. Just a guy who had a big head start on life and f***ed over a bunch of people to get where he is today. Also had a ton of luck along the way. He actually has a terrible wrestling mind.

 

[TD Charlie]

I don't like the guy, and I think that he's ruining the business now, but Vince is synonymous with professional wrestling. I don't know if we are watching still without him giving us late 90s early 2000s wrestling. What he gave is bigger than what he's ruining now.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I don't like the guy, and I think that he's ruining the business now, but Vince is synonymous with professional wrestling. I don't know if we are watching still without him giving us late 90s early 2000s wrestling. What he gave is bigger than what he's ruining now.

I'm not sure how much of that he should get credit for tho. Stone Cold and The Rock kind of fell into his lap. Even his Mr. McMahon character was created by accident due to him screwing Bret over.

 

[TD Charlie]

I'm not sure how much of that he should get credit for tho. Stone Cold and The Rock kind of fell into his lap. Even his Mr. McMahon character was created by accident due to him screwing Bret over.

I still think wrestling would've been huge without those two guys. It would not have had the same peak, but I think they still would have arrived today in a similar spot.

I agree that he was gifted two perfect talents at the perfect time.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

I still think wrestling would've been huge without those two guys. It would not have had the same peak, but I think they still would have arrived today in a similar spot.

I agree that he was gifted two perfect talents at the perfect time.

Apparently it was Bret Hart that lobbied for Steve Austin to be brought in after his WCW stint, and Dwayne was a legacy. So yeah, gifted is a good way to put it.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I'd also say Mick Foley got himself over with his HIAC performance and his multiple gimmicks, two of which I believe were created by him.

 

[The Marquis]

The timing of this thread is a work of art.

 

[Sugi21]

Apparently it was Bret Hart that lobbied for Steve Austin to be brought in after his WCW stint, and Dwayne was a legacy. So yeah, gifted is a good way to put it.

Bret Hart also stood up for a young Dwayne Johnson when the Kliq wanted him to get buried because they felt threatened by him.

 

[Bowski]

Bret Hart also stood up for a young Dwayne Johnson when the Kliq wanted him to get buried because they felt threatened by him.

It seems that Shawn and his remaining Kliq top nut licker Hunter (until Pac came back) were hard on Dwayne and anyone else who showed promise.
Luckily Hart, Simmons, etc. didn't stand for that.

Now, one is a lazy-eyed bald Texan with stories about banging Tammy Sytch of all vile things, and the other is a 52-year-old heart attack case.

Dwayne? We all know where he's at today.

 

[BruinDust]

I still think wrestling would've been huge without those two guys. It would not have had the same peak, but I think they still would have arrived today in a similar spot.

I agree that he was gifted two perfect talents at the perfect time.

I'm not sure without The Rock and Stone Cold that the WWF/WWE grows enough between 1997 and 2001 for them to become a publicly traded corporation. Keep in mind that by 1997 the WWF was struggling financially behind the scenes. Does it grow to become that juggernaut it became without it's two biggest stars (by far IMO) of that time period?

But make no mistake, the WWF/WWE caught lighting in a bottle so many times from 1997-2001 it's almost unbelievable. There was a lot of luck and good circumstance involved.

To you point I think the WWE eventually would of gotten there (being a Public Company) but it would of taken longer.

 

[TD Charlie]

I'm not sure without The Rock and Stone Cold that the WWF/WWE grows enough between 1997 and 2001 for them to become a publicly traded corporation. Keep in mind that by 1997 the WWF was struggling financially behind the scenes. Does it grow to become that juggernaut it became without it's two biggest stars (by far IMO) of that time period?

But make no mistake, the WWF/WWE caught lighting in a bottle so many times from 1997-2001 it's almost unbelievable. There was a lot of luck and good circumstance involved.

To you point I think the WWE eventually would of gotten there (being a Public Company) but it would of taken longer.

Fair point. And to that you could argue that they’d either have folded in the early 2000’s, or hung on long enough to gain momentum that would eventually put them almost exactly where they are now

I think it’s the latter. WCW was an unmitigated disaster so I think that merger happens with or without Rock/Austin. There’s still enough WWF talent in the late 90’s that they could have pushed. You just lose the peak.

Guys come and go but the gears still turn the machine

 

[BruinDust]

Fair point. And to that you could argue that they’d either have folded in the early 2000’s, or hung on long enough to gain momentum that would eventually put them almost exactly where they are now

I think it’s the latter. WCW was an unmitigated disaster so I think that merger happens with or without Rock/Austin. There’s still enough WWF talent in the late 90’s that they could have pushed. You just lose the peak.

Guys come and go but the gears still turn the machine

They )WWE) still would of came out on top and WCW still would of folded I think. If there is one thing I think most people would agree on is Vince McMahon is a fighter and not a quitter and he would of fought tooth and nail to keep WWF afloat. The man admittedly loves confrontation as messed up as that may seem.

Once the AOL/Time Warner merger happened it was curtains for Pro Wrestling on their networks, even if WCW was very profitable and chugging along the new company (AOL/TW) just wanted nothing to do with pro wrestling on their networks. Like Bischoff said, without the TV time where was the value in WCW? Without distribution your up shit creek. Vince/WWE would of picked WCW trademarks and tape library for a song either way which is really what they wanted. I don't think he gave two craps about the performers they acquired even the bigger names like Booker T and DDP.

 

[eXile3]

Didn't see the cover up of the Ashley Massaro rape mentioned.

Yes, the guy is a legit piece of shit. Yes, he was integral in creating some of our best wrestling memories. He's also completely ruined WWE in its current state but that is small ball in comparison to the lives he's ruined along the way.

The dude has gotten a pass for way too long.

 

[JackSlater]

Didn't see the cover up of the Ashley Massaro rape mentioned.

Yes, the guy is a legit piece of shit. Yes, he was integral in creating some of our best wrestling memories. He's also completely ruined WWE in its current state but that is small ball in comparison to the lives he's ruined along the way.

The dude has gotten a pass for way too long.

The Ashley Massaro rape case was very iffy. Basically everyone cited as being able to verify things in her case denied it completely, if I recall correctly there was evidence that she was participating in WWE events in a timeframe that strongly contradicted what she said, and her lawyer got in shit with the courts for exaggerating/pursuing false allegations in similar cases. The story may be true for all any of us know but it is in now way as concrete as some of the other Vince incidents.

I'd say that the Nancy Argentino murder and how that was handled is the worst thing that Vince ever did.