Yeah, I don't really agree with it, either. I get Tampa being a bit more careful, their cap is a bit of a mess and they'll be looking at re-signing Kucherov and re-doing their blueline in the next couple of seasons. But Nashville is just set up perfectly right now to bring in a guy for a few years who can maybe really put them over the top. They couldn't add a guy like Taveras or Karlsson but a guy like Tatar/Nyquist should be totally in their wheelhouse. Maybe they're hoping to just re-sign Neal over the summer, though.
Speculation: McKenzie suggests Nyquist or Tatar possible for Nashville
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Yeah, I don't really agree with it, either. I get Tampa being a bit more careful, their cap is a bit of a mess and they'll be looking at re-signing Kucherov and re-doing their blueline in the next couple of seasons. But Nashville is just set up perfectly right now to bring in a guy for a few years who can maybe really put them over the top. They couldn't add a guy like Taveras or Karlsson but a guy like Tatar/Nyquist should be totally in their wheelhouse. Maybe they're hoping to just re-sign Neal over the summer, though.
Tatar is struggling and has 3 more years at $5.3M while Nyquist is a shit playoff performer signed to one more year at $4.75M...if I'm Nashville I would stay away from both unless they can be traded for cheap
Pavels Dog
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Any half decent pro scout would instantly recognize that both have potential to do much more on better teams. Tatar especially could be a 30-goal guy in Nashville. Nyquist performed well in the playoffs the only time the Wings reached the 2nd round (i.e the only time he wasn’t on an outplayed team).
kliq
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I think so. When a player is on an expiring contract, its easy to make it work cap wise. You flip another bad expiring contract back, the trading team retains cap etc.
When there is an extra year, what that does is it puts certain teams out of the running because with expiring RFA's/UFA's themselves teams may me be reluctant to trade for a guy who may ultimately not work out, then for a double whammy risk losing one of their own because they don't have cap room the next season.
To be honest though, it simply all depends on the market. Some years I guarantee I am right, others I am wrong. Who knows what this year will bring. If the best offer we got for him was a second, my gut tells me to wait as we are talking a pick in the 50-60 range. If we are offered a 1st, I would take it.
kliq
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I think Nyquist has shown that when he is put in the right role in the playoffs, he can be very effective. Look what he did with Andersson/Brunner in 2013, not saying he lit up the playoffs or anything, but he was good. Now if you are expecting him to play on a top line against the best D in the world, sure you will likely be disappointed.
turkleton85
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what also helps is that his game isn't as soft as in the last couple of seasons. He is aggressive in the forecheck and along the boards. I'm sure he looks a lot more valuable to a team gearing up for a playoffrun this year than he would have in seasons past
because they think they could use another ~20 goal scorer and don't want to wade into free agency for it.
Both guys would be great in Nashville
Both are easily worth fabbro
Nyquist plus ouellete
For
Fabbro and a 2019 2nd or 3rd
Both are easily worth fabbro
Nyquist plus ouellete
For
Fabbro and a 2019 2nd or 3rd
You are assuming that the size of the market is the only variable in determining trade value. The inherent value of the asset being moved is also a major, major factor. Just look at the big auction houses and the fine art market. Nyquist today offers more than Nyquist a year from now. Say STL steps up and decides to buy, they acquire: (1) a solid, complimentary player for no less than one full year, (2) they get an asset that they can move at the deadline next year, (3) they get negotiating rights they could move in the offseason if they want to keep him for two playoff runs, (3) they get exclusive negotiating rights to him for a full season.
I agree that there are some players who simply cannot be moved until the last year of their contracts. I don't, however, see why Nyquist falls into that camp. He has one full year remaining on his relatively reasonable contract. For the record this is largely a moot discussion. I think we all know that Holland without a contract is not going to move Nyquist for futures.
Yea you can't accept rental pricing on these two. Are we really going to get an offer that is materially worse than Farrance and a 2nd if we wait a year to trade one of these two?
Hold out for something worthwhile or keep your assets.
Hold out for something worthwhile or keep your assets.
kliq
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Like I said, I think its very situational. Some years I think what you just said will be spot on. Hopefully this year applies. It all depends on what the cap situation is of the teams that are interested.
Of course the inherent value of the asset being moved is a major, I would never argue that. But Nyquist isn't good enough for a team that is not in a good cap situation to risk losing their own, hence it depends on the cap situation.
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It's not just cap, some GMs just get weird ideas in their head. I keep seeing it mentioned that the deep draft will keep teams from throwing a first at a guy like Green. I get that maybe some guys just won't value Green too highly because of his limitations, but if you're a team that thinks it has a legit shot at the cup, and you think you're that one puck moving, power play specializing D short of really making a big run...you're going to be turned off from that deal because you're afraid you might lose the 22nd pick in the draft? It seems nuts to me, but I think there's a truth to it in how these guys act.
If you're Chicago and staring a rebuild in the face and being a toss-up to make the playoffs, yeah, don't bother mortgaging any more of the future than you already have. But there are some clubs out there right now where it's like your time is now.
kliq
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Agreed. Hopefully Holland can identify though those teams and make the best deal possible with them. Chicago I think is where we are 2011, and I think they are going to try to make a run, hopefully we can exploit that because delaying their re-build would be awesome lol.
Suckering Chicago at the TDL would be sooooo sweet. Part of me would also fully expect to see Holland take Jurco back and it would almost be worth it to see all of the facepalms posted here. I think Bowman is smart enough to know they're out of it this year, though.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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And Nashville doesn't have their 2018 2nd this year so it would've to be a 2019 2nd instead which should be no problem.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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This either one of Nyquist or Tatar definitely has to start with either Nashville's 2018 1st or Dante Fabbro if i'm Holland that's minimal ask.
jkutswings
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If I'm Poile, I turn that down. Quickly.
This year's market will likely have a lot more sellers than buyers for a secondary or depth scoring winger. And no matter how well any of us (myself included) think a guy like Nyquist might fit on the Preds, there are lots of other options out there, whether a bigger splash for a bigger name, or a depth guy that would cost far less.
I think Detroit would be lucky to get a 2019 2nd and a lesser prospect in exchange for Gus. And I'd still take it, both to add picks and drop in the standings for 2018 (and likely 2019).
A creative middle ground might be a 2019 2nd that becomes a 1st if Nashville makes the final four, to help both sides hedge their bets (or something in that ballpark). But starting with either a 1st or Fabbro probably gets shot down.
Speaking of more sellers, apparently Rick Nash has submitted his list of 12 teams he's willing to be dealt to. He's had a bit of an up and down time in New York, and various injury issues it seems, but a motivated Nash for a stretch run could look good on a lot of teams. If Poile is looking to throw a 1st or Fabbro around, have to think Nash enters into that conversation.
Fabbro, 1st, + for Nash and McDonagh? Kinda crazy but Nashville would have the cap space at the deadline to take both of those contracts. Then they could turn around and deal someone a blueliner this summer to re-stock some of that.
Pavels Dog
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For a bad/mediocre return I’d just hold on to them. No rush. 2019 2nd? Just trade him next TDL for a 1st then.
HIFE
Registered User
This. A few of us are falling into the same trap Holland suffers from; overvaluing our players to the effect that a trade is impossible.
Where do Gus or Tats slot into Nashville's lineup? Craig Smith honestly beats them out in the top 6 and people may disagree but Jarnkrok on the 3rd line is a slightly more effective player. It's a lot to take on to essentially push Hartnell down the lineup.
I'd rather go all in on Kane who is a UFA this summer.
People have to remember what being a seller is. You get what you can, period. The Wings need to start acting like a rebuilding team. A contract player traded would be the 1st real move that's a sign of the acceptance we are rebuilding.
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
I agree but you seem to be confusing nyquist and tatar for old players on bad contracts
Rebuilding or not. You don't just dump effective top six 28 year olds for scraps who arentaren' even signed to ugly deals.
rhef3
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It's simple, Holland will keep both unless someone really wants them and offer's a good package for one, I don't see holland as the type to just trade players unless he feels he is getting a good deal. I doubt either player get's moved but still can keep up hope that he continues to "rebuild on the fly".
saska sault
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Both are so streaky i find. Hard for either to consistently produce when your team lacks puck movers and play makers. 4 out of 5 shifts consist of defensemen banking the puck off the boards and into the neutral zone. Put them on a team that can transition the puck and their stats will actually reflect their talent .
kliq
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Like anything there is a middle ground.
We don't want Holland to keep every player he has because he is looking for the perfect return as that will make us look stubborn and out of touch, but at the same time he can't be giving players away for anything as that will hurt us long term, and have a negative effect on future trades as it will make us look weak.
When players are about to be UFA's that is one thing, the trade deadline is approaching and you take what you can. But in the case of Nyquist/Tatar, Holland needs to be careful and not fall into the trap of selling just for the sake of selling as that will put us even further behind.
I was happy after last years trade deadline as I thought we got way more then we should have for Smith, hopefully I feel the same at the end of the month.
I think we can get a 1st for Nyquist, I just think we may need to be creative (ie. retaining salary, or possibly sending a lower pick back).
We don't want Holland to keep every player he has because he is looking for the perfect return as that will make us look stubborn and out of touch, but at the same time he can't be giving players away for anything as that will hurt us long term, and have a negative effect on future trades as it will make us look weak.
When players are about to be UFA's that is one thing, the trade deadline is approaching and you take what you can. But in the case of Nyquist/Tatar, Holland needs to be careful and not fall into the trap of selling just for the sake of selling as that will put us even further behind.
I was happy after last years trade deadline as I thought we got way more then we should have for Smith, hopefully I feel the same at the end of the month.
I think we can get a 1st for Nyquist, I just think we may need to be creative (ie. retaining salary, or possibly sending a lower pick back).
