TSN: McKenzie | O’Reilly would be absolute godsend to Canadiens

[habsgirl5000]

Max I trade for ROR is Pacioretty, Lindgren and one of our seconds.

buffalo has ZERO INTEREST in patches......they DONT WANT HIM!!

they would have more interest in chucky......

in any case.....from a buffalo point of view, the deal begins with our first and chucky +.....and that is where MB ends the conversation......anything past that is moot

 

[Tim Wallach]

I struggle with Ryan O'Reilly. He's a strange player for me. The eye test often says he's exactly what we need - big 200-foot centre with some offence.

But the results test is iffy. He has been a #2 C on a couple teams with some other good pieces who have sucked hard. So what makes Montreal think that he's the answer as a 1C?

I'd take him, but the word "over-rated" can't help but creep into my head. Proceed with caution.

 

[Skip Bayless]

His statistical peak was along those lines, yes. Just like it is for most forwards in the league.

He had two 70ish points seasons in a 3 years span. Prime Plekanec was a low-end first liner, deluxe 2nd line center. I guess you could argue some of that overlapped in the first couple of years of Bergevin's tenure. Even if it did, the numbers are what they are, and nothing really shows what you're advocating in terms of O'Reilly being definitely better than a prime Plekanec.

Yeah, but none of the stats advocate the type of players they are and the circumstances in which they played in either. Plekanec failed in the playoffs offensively, skilled players went cold on his line because he played a strict north south style with little presence along the boards, which in turn made it very hard for his lines to generate any type of offense collectively. He was a counter-attack player. He was very effective positionally and shut down opponents, but didn't necessarily take it to them offensively. O'reilly is the type of player that can make his line go because he's much more implicated physically both ways. The numbers wont say that, but if you watch both players for what they are without watching the stats sheet, you'd notice the difference in effectiveness offensively, which makes the whole difference because we're talking about two guys who are two way players in their primes.

To me that makes O'reilly better than prime Plekanec. But if you chose to only look at the numbers, you're free to stop your analysis there...

 

[Adam Michaels]

Max I trade for ROR is Pacioretty, Lindgren and one of our seconds. I'd have to think about trading Juulsen long and hard. He's not untouchable when we have a better version of him in Brook but if we can strike a deal without him involved, that'd be great. Also, if the plan for BUF is to make the playoffs, we could take Moulson off their hands.

If they take on Moulson's contract (1 year at 3.975M) in order to sweeten the deal, it would take up a lot of cap that could be used in taking a run at Tavares. Unless Sabres retain part of his salary.

Because if the cap only goes up 2M (hypothetical), the Habs would have 15.3M. Trading Max's 4.5M would give them 19.8M. Taking back ROR's 7.5M brings the cap space back down to 12.3M. They have room for JT. And even if they offer him like 13M, they are allowed to go 10% over the cap during the off-season. Moving some others out could help make the Habs cap compliant.

But if they do take on Moulson's 3.975M, it makes it all a little too tight.

 

[habsgirl5000]

I struggle with Ryan O'Reilly. He's a strange player for me. The eye test often says he's exactly what we need - big 200-foot centre with some offence.

But the results test is iffy. He has been a #2 C on a couple teams with some other good pieces who have sucked hard. So what makes Montreal think that he's the answer as a 1C?

I'd take him, but the word "over-rated" can't help but creep into my head. Proceed with caution.

LOL....maybe because he is better then any center we have had in the past 10+ years?

 

[Adam Michaels]

I struggle with Ryan O'Reilly. He's a strange player for me. The eye test often says he's exactly what we need - big 200-foot centre with some offence.

But the results test is iffy. He has been a #2 C on a couple teams with some other good pieces who have sucked hard. So what makes Montreal think that he's the answer as a 1C?

I'd take him, but the word "over-rated" can't help but creep into my head. Proceed with caution.

As a 1C, he'd still be an upgrade over what Habs have. As a 2C, he'd be as good as they get in the league. As for his teams sucking despite having good pieces. One thing that needs to be considered is that ROR did his part. Others around him underachieved.

 

[CHfan1]

If they take on Moulson's contract (1 year at 3.975M) in order to sweeten the deal, it would take up a lot of cap that could be used in taking a run at Tavares. Unless Sabres retain part of his salary.

Because if the cap only goes up 2M (hypothetical), the Habs would have 15.3M. Trading Max's 4.5M would give them 19.8M. Taking back ROR's 7.5M brings the cap space back down to 12.3M. They have room for JT. And even if they offer him like 13M, they are allowed to go 10% over the cap during the off-season. Moving some others out could help make the Habs cap compliant.

But if they do take on Moulson's 3.975M, it makes it all a little too tight.

They still have to re-sign Danault and DLR.

 

[Lebowski]

Yeah, but none of the stats advocate the type of players they are and the circumstances in which they played in either. Plekanec failed in the playoffs offensively, skilled players went cold on his line because he played a strict north south style with little presence along the boards, which in turn made it very hard for his lines to generate any type of offense collectively. He was a counter-attack player. He was very effective positionally and shut down opponents, but didn't necessarily take it to them offensively. O'reilly is the type of player that can make his line go because he's much more implicated physically both ways. The numbers wont say that, but if you watch both players for what they are without watching the stats sheet, you'd notice the difference in effectiveness offensively, which makes the whole difference because we're talking about two guys who are two way players in their primes.

To me that makes O'reilly better than prime Plekanec. But if you chose to only look at the numbers, you're free to stop your analysis there...

If all that you say is true, how come it hasn't materialized into tangible numbers over such a large sample size, and two different teams?

 

[Adam Michaels]

They still have to re-sign Danault and DLR.

True.

 

[LaP]

I can definitely see it, and that's what worries me.

ROR definitely fits the attitude pr MB did. Would not surprised me at all and it would be an awful trade again.

 

[Skip Bayless]

If all that you say is true, how come it hasn't materialized into tangible numbers over such a large sample size, and two different teams?

If Malkin plays with top liners while Crosby plays with lesser players, yet gets the same amount of points, what does it say about Malkin? Nothing.

It's not all about points, intagibles often affect much more the dynamic of a team, which is way more important than the stat sheet.

 

[Lebowski]

If Malkin plays with top liners while Crosby plays with lesser players, yet gets the same amount of points, what does it say about Malkin? Nothing.

It's not all about points, intagibles often affect much more the dynamic of a team, which is way more important than the stat sheet.

So he changes the dynamic? That's his thing?

How did it work out for Colorado and Buffalo so far?

You can choose to ignore offensive production all you want. At the end of the day we're still talking about a 60 +/-5 points two-way center, and that's exactly what Plekanec used to be.

And if Plekanec wasn't enough, there's no reason to believe O'Reilly would be enough.

 

[Skip Bayless]

So he changes the dynamic? That's his thing?

How did it work out for Colorado and Buffalo so far?

You can choose to ignore offensive production all you want. At the end of the day we're still talking about a 60 +/-5 points two-way center, and that's exactly what Plekanec used to be.

And if Plekanec wasn't enough, there's no reason to believe O'Reilly would be enough.

Did I say O'reilly was the savior? Or that he'd change the dynamic of this team? Both players, despite being two way players, are different players with different skill sets. If evaluating players based on points was the way to evaluate talent, we'd all be professional scouts.

I simply explained to you why I think one player can be better than the other even if the production is comparable, but you're the one using points to evaluate the impact a player has on the game. We're not talking about a 4th liner vs a top 6 fwd here where the numbers pretty much sum it all up.

 

[Lebowski]

Did I say O'reilly was the savior? Or that he'd change the dynamic of this team? Both players, despite being two way players, are different players with different skill sets. If evaluating players based on points was the way to evaluate talent, we'd all be professional scouts.

I simply explained to you why I think one player can be better than the other even if the production is comparable, but you're the one using points to evaluate the impact a player has on the game. We're not talking about a 4th liner vs a top 6 fwd here where the numbers pretty much sum it all up.

Right, so how much better do you think O'Reilly is actually?

Plekanec was a low-end 1st liner. What's O'Reilly to you?

 

[Gomez91]

buffalo has ZERO INTEREST in patches......they DONT WANT HIM!!

they would have more interest in chucky......

in any case.....from a buffalo point of view, the deal begins with our first and chucky +.....and that is where MB ends the conversation......anything past that is moot

This comment above means something to me? Why doesn't Montreal wait until July 1 where they can get a center or maybe two and go after John Tavares or even Paul Stastny. ROR is to rich of a deal for me if you think giving Buffalo Max or Chucky or anybody.

 

[Gomez91]

If they take on Moulson's contract (1 year at 3.975M) in order to sweeten the deal, it would take up a lot of cap that could be used in taking a run at Tavares. Unless Sabres retain part of his salary.

Because if the cap only goes up 2M (hypothetical), the Habs would have 15.3M. Trading Max's 4.5M would give them 19.8M. Taking back ROR's 7.5M brings the cap space back down to 12.3M. They have room for JT. And even if they offer him like 13M, they are allowed to go 10% over the cap during the off-season. Moving some others out could help make the Habs cap compliant.

But if they do take on Moulson's 3.975M, it makes it all a little too tight.

Especially since you forgot Price's new contract kick in the start of next year I think?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Especially since you forgot Price's new contract kick in the start of next year I think?

Yes, but his contract is already counted on next year's cap. So the 13.3M in cap space I'm talking about is with Price's contract counted.

 

[Goodbahd]

Compared to what we have right now, yeah he'd be a godsend. However, we're not gonna contend with him as our first line centre. It'd be nice to land him and Tavares, that would completely change our team, but we'd still need quality wingers and mobile defensemen to compliment the centres. We don't really have any good wingers or any good puck moving defensemen. Petry is okay, but soft. Mete is still improving and who knows how he'll pan out. Weber and Alzner make a good first pass, but aren't really mobile. Pacioretty is streaky, besides he's not even here for the long haul. Gallagher is okay, but scoring 30 goals in a meaningless season doesn't really count for much. Chucky has the talent, like Drouin, but both not really consistent. In short, this team sucks and now would be the perfect time to trade everyone and do a complete rebuild. The owner just has to give green light, but it's doubtful that the quality of the this team is more important of the status quo and his profits. The only way this team gets the rebuild it needs and deserves is if enough Habs fans and media demanded it by asking questions and simply stop buying products, watching and attending games altogether. Otherwise, nothing will really change. We live in the age of the status quo and politically correct. Boring pathetic times indeed.

 

[Lebowski]

Compared to what we have right now, yeah he'd be a godsend. However, we're not gonna contend with him as our first line centre. It'd be nice to land him and Tavares, that would completely change our team, but we'd still need quality wingers and mobile defensemen to compliment the centres. We don't really have any good wingers or any good puck moving defensemen. Petry is okay, but soft. Mete is still improving and who knows how he'll pan out. Weber and Alzner make a good first pass, but aren't really mobile. Pacioretty is streaky, besides he's not even here for the long haul. Gallagher is okay, but scoring 30 goals in a meaningless season doesn't really count for much. Chucky has the talent, like Drouin, but both not really consistent. In short, this team sucks and now would be the perfect time to trade everyone and do a complete rebuild.

I don't know, I think wingers is the one area where we're not lacking. I'd try to move Pacioretty either way, I just don't want to re-sign him or lose him for nothing, so might as well get a few assets in return. Assuming (and that's a big assumption) you can land both Tavares and O'Reilly without touching too much of our roster players, Running Galchenyuk/Drouin/Gallagher/Lehkonen/Hudon/Scherbak/Byron/Shaw on the wing isn't half-bad. The depth is there, at least.

On defense, I really like the Reilly addition. Mete should be a good one too, and Juulsen looked good as well.

Alzner, hopefully we could move him in a potential ROR deal for cap reasons.

Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - O'Reilly - Lehkonen
Hudon - Danault - Scherbak
Byron - DLR - Shaw
Deslauriers

Mete - Weber
Reilly - Petry
Schlemko - Juulsen
Benn

Doesn't look half bad to me. Another top 4 dman on LD would definitely help though.

 

[OldCraig71]

I struggle with Ryan O'Reilly. He's a strange player for me. The eye test often says he's exactly what we need - big 200-foot centre with some offence.

But the results test is iffy. He has been a #2 C on a couple teams with some other good pieces who have sucked hard. So what makes Montreal think that he's the answer as a 1C?

I'd take him, but the word "over-rated" can't help but creep into my head. Proceed with caution.

My friend that is a die hard Sabres fan tells me that ROR is the center version of Pacioretty and Bergevin has no clue what a center even is so he would take anyone he could get. Let's just trade Pacioretty for a great young prospect and quit playing the lottery with these project types.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Right, so how much better do you think O'Reilly is actually?

Plekanec was a low-end 1st liner. What's O'Reilly to you?

Lemme get out of your frame to give you my proper evaluation. Plekanec's role and his game changed throughout the years and he became almost exclusively a defensive player who could hurt you off the rush with his speed for most of his career. He had a good snap shot and always made high percentage plays (strictly a north south player with smarts). O'reilly has been playing in very bad defensive teams his whole career, but is solid in both ways of the ice, implicated physically, relentless in puck pursuit, has good hands around the net and in restricted areas, good in traffic and has a diverse shooting arsenal. I'd say Plekanec was better positionally and more disciplined in his own end, but O'reilly is a better offensive player overall. I know I pick O'reilly on my team and pass on prime Plekanec 9 times over 10 because of his ultra-softness and lack of creativity.

The main thing that does it for me is that Plekanec's offense came from more individual and broken play for most of his career, while O'reilly is the type of player that can help a line be effective collectively and play a better possession game. And that's why I think he's better, despite having comparable numbers and in consequence being "low-end 1st liners™" in your way of seeing things.

And to further explain my point, even if I believe O'reilly is a better player than Plekanec was in his prime, it doesn't mean I also believe he's the answer to all of our prayers or a legit 1st line C.

 

[Tim Wallach]

LOL....maybe because he is better then any center we have had in the past 10+ years?

Obviously I get that. The point I'm making is that you have to proceed with caution in terms of what price you pay as you'd be foolish to think he is the saviour. He's a decent piece, so pay for a decent piece, not a star price.

 

[Gomez91]

Compared to what we have right now, yeah he'd be a godsend. However, we're not gonna contend with him as our first line centre. It'd be nice to land him and Tavares, that would completely change our team, but we'd still need quality wingers and mobile defensemen to compliment the centres. We don't really have any good wingers or any good puck moving defensemen. Petry is okay, but soft. Mete is still improving and who knows how he'll pan out. Weber and Alzner make a good first pass, but aren't really mobile. Pacioretty is streaky, besides he's not even here for the long haul. Gallagher is okay, but scoring 30 goals in a meaningless season doesn't really count for much. Chucky has the talent, like Drouin, but both not really consistent. In short, this team sucks and now would be the perfect time to trade everyone and do a complete rebuild. The owner just has to give green light, but it's doubtful that the quality of the this team is more important of the status quo and his profits. The only way this team gets the rebuild it needs and deserves is if enough Habs fans and media demanded it by asking questions and simply stop buying products, watching and attending games altogether. Otherwise, nothing will really change. We live in the age of the status quo and politically correct. Boring pathetic times indeed.

Get rid of everyone instead of acquiring a Center not to say where was T Timmon's in the last 7 years at the draft table?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gallagher, Beaulieu, pick. Or stack up any combination of our 'best' prospects: Mac, Scherbak, DLR, 1st rounder etc. It's not like Buffalo gave up a Lindros-esque ransom to get ROR. Surely we could have topped Grigs, Zadorov etc. if we so chose.

Not so sure we could of easily topped that return. We shouldn’t use hindsight evaluation at who Grigs and Zadorov are today. Back at the time of the trade, they were grade A prospects and the Habs didn’t have any. Scherbak and McCarron were not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Galchenyuk and our first. There, done.

Would you of made that trade back when? Seriously?