TSN: McKenzie: I get the feeling Matthews & Marner want to wait until next summer to sign

[PromisedLand]

I’d liked them all signed so Babs will actually play them together on the PP and let them explode offensively.

I jest but there’s a part of me that believes that playing Hyman with Matthews no matter what is a ploy by the coach to limit Matthews from becoming a bigger star than him. Sounds silly but whatever

If Leafs win the cup there is not gonna be a bigger superstar than mike babcock in the city of Toronto

 

[PromisedLand]

It makes a lot more sense for Marner to hold out than Matthews.

I really don’t see what Matthews gains by waiting another year considering he could probably get 11 million already. If he holds out and outs up 50 goals maybe he’d be in contention for McDavid money but his agent may likely just seek to lock in a huge money contract as soon as possible.

Marner would be better off waiting to see if he hits 70+ points then getting his agent to hardball the Leafs into a 7.5-8.5 million range.

Suppos Matthews signs for 10M x 8; and Marner opts to wait till the nd of n ct season and matches Matthews production; then there is no reason and no justification to not pay Mitch the same.

That is why signing Marner now is a priority

 

[Menzinger]

Suppos Matthews signs for 10M x 8; and Marner opts to wait till the nd of n ct season and matches Matthews production; then there is no reason and no justification to not pay Mitch the same.

That is why signing Marner now is a priority

While I agree it should be a priority to sign Marner now, I’ve got a hard time seeing Marner’s agent demand 10 million unless he hits 90+ points this season. If he hits PPG territory he could be in line for a Draisaitl Type deal

 

[thewave]

I don't think we are holding on to big 3. Could be the big 2 before long.

 

[LeafsNation75]

While I agree it should be a priority to sign Marner now, I’ve got a hard time seeing Marner’s agent demand 10 million unless he hits 90+ points this season. If he hits PPG territory he could be in line for a Draisaitl Type deal

For Marner to come close to those numbers he would need to play on the same line with Matthews the whole season at 5v5 and on the power play. Although if they sign Tavares and he plays with Marner maybe that's another way it could happen.

 

[Liminality]

I don't think we are holding on to big 3. Could be the big 2 before long.

If one of the big 3 leaves I'm sure they're getting replaced by someone just as important to the team. Becoming the big 3 again.

 

[LeafFever]

Tavares could be the answer to trading one of the big 3 or Kadri to get help on D.

 

[thewave]

Suppos Matthews signs for 10M x 8; and Marner opts to wait till the nd of n ct season and matches Matthews production; then there is no reason and no justification to not pay Mitch the same.

That is why signing Marner now is a priority

Life would be easy if we could just make them take..

6m x8 Ny
7m x8 Mar
8m x8 Mat

Life so good with the above numbers.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Life would be easy if we could just make them take..

6m x8 Ny
7m x8 Mar
8m x8 Mat

Life so good with the above numbers.

It would be even better if we could make them all sign for $900k

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't understand why 8 years. Would it make sense to sign shorter term deals with lower amount of money(if possible) till the last year of their RFA. Then sign them to 8 yrs deal. I am not a contract expert but RFA ends at 26. So sign them till they are that age and then extend them to 8 yrs deal. That way by the time their 8 yrs deal is done, they will be 34. Instead of signing them to 8 yrs deal now and another 8 years deal after that and worry about their play at 35-36.
The logic is that players are more likely to take a shorter term deals now then they are 28 or 29. Use the short term deals now to and longer deal at 25/26.

 

[Rob Brown]

If Leafs win the cup there is not gonna be a bigger superstar than mike babcock in the city of Toronto

 

[pulfordfan]

Don't care what McKenzie "feels"

 

[Bluelines]

Meh, signing short-term is also a bet that you won't suffer a career threatening injury. If you've got an offer for $55M vs. one for $15M, it's awfully difficult to turn down an extra $40M, especially in a career where one bad hit can end it all.

Turning down a long-term deal, with a higher AAV than a bridge contract, is a gamble on a lot more than talent.

Personally, I'd bridge all 3 and deal with the cap implications at a later date. We don't know how high the Cap will or won't go, so unless they're taking sweetheart deals to sign long-term, I ice the best roster possible right now, and deal with fitting everyone in/moving bodies out in a few years.

Take out insurance if you are worried about a career ending injury.

 

[ACC1224]

Is it true that Matthews missed out on 2 million in bonuses last year?

 

[Mess]

Is it true that Matthews missed out on 2 million in bonuses last year?

Auston Matthews did miss out on some bonuses because 35 assists is a threshold that Matthews didn't meet. Also missed out on some league bonuses .. ", top 5 in league in Hart/Selke/Richard voting, NHL First or Second team all star".

The three types of bonuses

Signing Bonus
First, the one that confuses the issue. Signing bonuses are part of the salary, count against the cap hit and are capped at $92,500 for players on ELCs. They are paid out in a lump sum in the summer, and the amount is not included in buyout calculations.
Nearly every player on an ELC in the NHL has a signing bonus, and a lot of them are at the max amount. It would be very unusual for a top draft pick to not have a contract structured that way.
Performance Bonuses

There are two kinds of these, and herein lies the source of Lou's ABC quote, and a lot of confusion.
Schedule A Bonuses

They're called Schedule A bonuses because, well, they aren't actually. That's the common parlance term for them but the CBA defines them in Exhibit 5 as:

1. Individual "A" Bonuses Paid by Clubs

The maximum amount payable for any single category of Individual "A" Bonuses identified below is $212,500 per season. (For example, an Entry Level SPC may not contain bonuses of $212,500 for 20 goals and an additional $212,500 for 30 goals, provided, however, it may contain a bonus of $100,000 for 20 goals and $112,500 for 30 goals). An Entry Level SPC may contain any number of Individual "A" Bonuses; however, a Player may not receive more than $850,000 in total aggregate Individual "A" Bonuses per season. Individual "A" Bonuses are payable by the Clubs (as opposed to the League).​

The numbers that matter there are $850,000 in total and each type can't be more than $212,500 in total. You can sort the money around in any way you want that meets those two criteria.
The criteria for these A bonuses is fairly simple. They are all for tangible things with clear meanings. Goals, points, ice time and things like attendance at the All-Star game or being named to the All-Rookie team. The type and minimum threshold for the bonuses vary by position as well.

We'll look at the ones for forwards to get the gist of it.
(a) Forwards

(i) Ice time (aggregate and/or per Game). Player must be among top six (6) forwards on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group). (Note: an Entry Level SPC may contain bonuses for both aggregate and per Game ice time; however, the maximum aggregate amount the Player may receive on account of the ice time category is $212,500.)

(ii) Goals: 20 Goal Minimum

(iii) Assists: 35 Assist Minimum

(iv) Points: 60 Point Minimum

(v) Points Per Game: .73 Points Per Game Minimum (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played)

(vi) Plus-Minus Rating: Among top three (3) forwards on the Club (minimum 42 Regular Season Games played by Player and comparison group).

(vii) End-of-Season NHL All-Rookie Team

(viii) NHL All-Star Game (selected to play or plays)

(ix) NHL All-Star Game MVP
So, if I want to make sure my top draft pick forward does earn his max bonuses, I might agree to award him the max $212,500 for 35 assists, the NHL All-Star game, if I think he's a lock for that, and plus-minus because I plan to put him on a scoring line that won't get hemmed in, and well, you get the picture.

Schedule A bonuses (max $850,000): $212,500 for any of the following achievements - top 6 forward on team in ice time (total or average per game, min 42GP), 20 goals, 35 assists, 60 points, 0.73 points per game (min 42GP), top 3 forward on team in +/- (min 42GP), All Rookie team, All Star game, All Star game MVP. Schedule B bonuses (max $2,000,000): $2,000,000 for any of the following achievements - top 10 forward in the league in goals/assists/points/points per game (min 42GP), top 5 in league in Hart/Selke/Richard voting, NHL First or Second team all star.

The Auston Matthews contract and bonuses

 

[Gallagbi]

Auston Matthews did miss out on some bonuses because 35 assists is a threshold that Matthews didn't meet. Also missed out on some league bonuses .. ", top 5 in league in Hart/Selke/Richard voting, NHL First or Second team all star".

@ACC1224

Its very likely he maxed out his Schedule A bonuses since they're capped at 850k total and he would have hit the criteria for 4+.

The league bonus would have been the $2 mill, which he misses this year, but hit as a rookie (top 10 in goals)

 

[DarkKnight]

I wish Dreger would shut up, driving up all our players numbers. I'm the biggest Marner guy around, saying he deserves Eichel money is ridiculous. Stuff it Dregs!

 

[ACC1224]

@ACC1224

Its very likely he maxed out his Schedule A bonuses since they're capped at 850k total and he would have hit the criteria for 4+.

The league bonus would have been the $2 mill, which he misses this year, but hit as a rookie (top 10 in goals)

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm something I was told.
Had he played more games he would have had a chance to earn those?

 

[Gallagbi]

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm something I was told.
Had he played more games he would have had a chance to earn those?

Games played was a big factor since the schedule B bonuses are mostly season totals. Top 10 in total G/A/P and then top 5 in Hart/Selke/Richard or 1st/2nd All-star team. Only "pace" bonus is points per game, but he doesn't rank top 10, so he won't qualify.

Worth noting teams don't usually announce the details of which bonuses players are eligible for in their contracts, these are just the potential ones. Since he missed all of the criteria, he won't get a schedule B this year.

 

[biotk]

I don't understand why 8 years. Would it make sense to sign shorter term deals with lower amount of money(if possible) till the last year of their RFA. Then sign them to 8 yrs deal. I am not a contract expert but RFA ends at 26. So sign them till they are that age and then extend them to 8 yrs deal. That way by the time their 8 yrs deal is done, they will be 34. Instead of signing them to 8 yrs deal now and another 8 years deal after that and worry about their play at 35-36.

Why would the players agree to sign away their right to UFA until they are 34?

 

[Gabriel426]

Why would the players agree to sign away their right to UFA until they are 34?

What I am saying I a do what Kane, Stamkos, JT, Torres, Kopitar did, they all signed a shorter term deal after their ELC and then sign an eight year deal after that.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What I am saying I a do what Kane, Stamkos, JT, Torres, Kopitar did, they all signed a shorter term deal after their ELC and then sign an eight year deal after that.

The thing is now it seems to be a normal thing for star players drafted 1st and 2nd overall to sign maximum 8 year extensions once their ELC have finished. We saw it with McDavid and Eichel.

 

[biotk]

What I am saying I a do what Kane, Stamkos, JT, Torres, Kopitar did, they all signed a shorter term deal after their ELC and then sign an eight year deal after that.

They signed deals that were shorter than the maximum length after their ELC to become UFAs earlier (26 years for Kane and Stamkos for instance), rather than later as it seems to me you were proposing.

 

[Xanner]

Did anyone watch insider trading? dregs said that marners camp believe that he can get eichel money, thats pretty crazy. He also said that a hometown discount is unlikely and that a big battle between the leafs and marner is ahead.

 

[biotk]

Did anyone watch insider trading? dregs said that marners camp believe that he can get eichel money, thats pretty crazy. He also said that a hometown discount is unlikely and that a big battle between the leafs and marner is ahead.

I never believed the hometown discount. Seemed like wishful thinking. I don't think that Marner is worth Eichel money (I don't think that Eichel is worth Eichel money). But this league makes a lot of money, and great players are what draws most of the that money. The bottom line is that players, and their agents are going to go after the best deal in 99% of the cases. Connor McDavid is going to make 12.5 million next year. That would rank him, ironically enough, 97th in the NBA last year.