Once upon a time, Tristan Llywellan (D, Tri-City Storm USHL) was considered a top prospect for this draft...Is he still ranked anywhere in the first 3 rounds?
Why does every other scouting service out there have JVR much higher then?
Does this alleged "head scout" realize that JVR is a 17 year old playing against mainly University Teams and he isn't going to score 3 pts a game like all these Junior type players.
Also, what does it matter what "Head Scout" says anyways. When did you or the folks from McKeen's go and check him out four yourself. Have you????? I live an hour from Ann Arbor, I've seen him play several times and he's looked good out there each time. Has not looked out of place playing against the likes of 3-4 even 5 years older than him.
Also, Espo at #1 is a complete farce. Why are these rankings so outdated all the time? What has Angelo done to be considered drafted #1 overall ahead of all the other fine prospects in this class. Surely his 2'nd World Junior snub didnt score him any points, did it? Keep him in the top 3 maybe, but having him at #1 at this date is VERY strange.
You're awfully confrontational for a fellow with seven posts, all of them confrontational and all in the past few days - - already declared I'm a farce with my "alleged head scouts" and McKeen's is crap - for all I know you're a mole - it's pretty freeking suspicious, you come out quite strong against McKeen's just hours before ISS releases its "December" list (which is posted and stickied by HF managing editor Ken McKenna of course) where van Riemsdyk is ranked second.
I'm not big on conspiracies, but sometimes the coincidences are a little too prevalent.
my track record around here on many prospects speaks for itself.
I don't have to back up my opinions, but at least I do - not just pour out invectiveness - I've got top-notch scouting contacts that are very open with me - you can choose to not believe that - you have that right.
Your argument for Espo borders on ridiculous - the list of Canadian juniors cut by team canada at 17 and 18 years of age that went on to fabulous pro careers is too lengthy to mention; basing a player's pro potential on that is farcical.
You've officially wasted my time for the last time. Welcome the the ignore list, mole.
Many great prospects have been cut from the Canadian World Junior team at the age of 17. It's hardly a damning indictment from Hockey Canada.
I asked what Espo did over the past month to warrant the #1 spot. I said surely him being cut while other 2007 eligables made it did score him bonus points.
If you actually read what I posted than you'd see I said leaving him in the Top 3 wouldn't be a stretch, but what has he done to be #1? All is saying I'm that it isn't a big deal that he was cut. Maybe not, but his stats aren't mind boggling at the moment and he has done virtually nothing since being dismissed...so again, why is he atop the list? I just dont see it.
As for being a mole, thats hilarious. I just think the rankings are bad. JVR needs to be higher, Couture higher and Espo should not be #1.
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Hunter Gathers
The Crown
I'm starting to think I'm on turnbuckle's ignore list simply because he's refused to answer any of my questions or comments.
So there seems to be a big difference on how Mckeen's and ISS view Van Riemsdyk and Kane...I guess ISS is scared off by Kane's size,and Mckeen's just notes how he keeps putting up tons of points ...
Alzner is now consensus the best D-man in the draft and whether you see him as high as #2 overall or as low as #5 overall --it actually may depend on which team wins the lotto to draft#1 and whether they are already well stocked on D or not--if not,he might go #1 overall!
If he performs like today in the 5-2 Canada win over Finland in their pre-WJHC exhibition game (1G+2A)--he may very well go #1 !!!
Here is my own Dec. ranking of the top ten for the draft:
1. Logan Couture (he's back baby!)
2. Karl Alzner (safest pick in the draft--sure-fire blue-chip D-man).
3. Kyle Turris--electric highlight reel talent...
These 3 will have an impact as pros..I am certain about them..there are questions with the next tier that give some pause on their upside for potential impact in the
NHL...
-------------------------
2nd tier:
4. Pat Kane (size is an issue,but he puts up the points --Marty St. Louis can
do it--why not Kane?).
5. James Van Riemsdyk (on the other hand he does have size you love at wing).
6. Nick Petrecki--big mean D-man (who can't use one of those).
7. Sam Gagner ( good hockey sense--but I don't think he has 1st line potential)
stiil--he'll be a good solid NHl'er...on a 2nd or 3rd line...
8. Jakub Voracek--somehow I seem to be less impressed than the scouting services.
9. Angelo Esposito--again I seem to be less than impressed--I expected much more from him given the hype of the last 2 years...
10. Keaton Ellerby --still very raw--but with that size and skating ability,even if the offense doesn't come ,he could be a good stay at home d-man ...
Alzner is now consensus the best D-man in the draft and whether you see him as high as #2 overall or as low as #5 overall --it actually may depend on which team wins the lotto to draft#1 and whether they are already well stocked on D or not--if not,he might go #1 overall!
If he performs like today in the 5-2 Canada win over Finland in their pre-WJHC exhibition game (1G+2A)--he may very well go #1 !!!
Here is my own Dec. ranking of the top ten for the draft:
1. Logan Couture (he's back baby!)
2. Karl Alzner (safest pick in the draft--sure-fire blue-chip D-man).
3. Kyle Turris--electric highlight reel talent...
These 3 will have an impact as pros..I am certain about them..there are questions with the next tier that give some pause on their upside for potential impact in the
NHL...
-------------------------
2nd tier:
4. Pat Kane (size is an issue,but he puts up the points --Marty St. Louis can
do it--why not Kane?).
5. James Van Riemsdyk (on the other hand he does have size you love at wing).
6. Nick Petrecki--big mean D-man (who can't use one of those).
7. Sam Gagner ( good hockey sense--but I don't think he has 1st line potential)
stiil--he'll be a good solid NHl'er...on a 2nd or 3rd line...
8. Jakub Voracek--somehow I seem to be less impressed than the scouting services.
9. Angelo Esposito--again I seem to be less than impressed--I expected much more from him given the hype of the last 2 years...
10. Keaton Ellerby --still very raw--but with that size and skating ability,even if the offense doesn't come ,he could be a good stay at home d-man ...
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
hawksfan -- I think that JVR might be one of the safest players, as well. He's big enough and smart enough that he can be slotted anywhere from the 1st line to the 4th line that he can contribute on any of them. Doesn't shy away from contact, likes to go to the net a bit, etc etc.
Now this seems to be a much more sensible list. Kane and Turris maybe a little high, Voracek possibly a little too low, but the rest are about dead on. Thank god I am not the only one who laughed at Espo being ranked #1 at this moment in time.
Nice list. I like Logan as he plays for my 67's, but the skating issue is going to keep him from the top slot I'm afraid no matter how productive he is.
We strongly considered ranking Alzner number one actually; he's just such a solid prospect. At the end of the day tho, scouts still like Esposito's offensive skills/potential a little more than Alzner's 'safer' package.
As stated in the article, Espo's hold on number one is "tenuous at best", so don't be taking December's ratings as gospel (unlike some folks around here apparently are) - anyone in the top ten has a shot at being number one is this year's draft when there's no defined number one.
Remember the Patrick Stefan draft? It's a bit like that, where no one knew who would be the top pick.
I'm sure then, since you live in Michigan, you have frequent opportunities to go see Esposito play?
And if it's plausible in your mind to keep Espo in the Top 3, why is it so offensive to believe that he could go #1?
Just chill out man. You'll hear many different opinions from people who get paid to watch hockey for a living on who they think will be #1.
If you get this worked up from every ranking you don't like before the draft, you'll blow a fuse by June.
Who said I lived in Michigan? I said I'm an hour away from Ann Arbor, I'm actually in Ontario.
I have also watched Angelo on TV many a time. I have Rogers and have seen him play at least 5 times on there and I've also seen him play live.
He wouldnt even be in my Top 5. I mearly stated that if someone had him third it would be a little more understanable.
You'll see in June.
If you're going to put Semin andi on a line then you're morally obligated to sign Corey Pecker and put him on there too.
Pecker-
Those three on HNIC with Bob Cole calling the game would be unbelievable.
Its destiny for sure. All praise Zeus!!
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
montreal
Go Habs Go
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
montreal -- Just a suggestion, but you need to get a glimpse of JVR this year. He's improved by leaps and bounds (basically Phaneuf-esque in how much of a drastic difference one year made) over the year's time.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,096
- 8,480
OK, folks - we get it, let's drop this line of discussion and move along.Shouldn't it be Pecker +
Keven Veilleux is sickly overrated, at #25 on the mckeens list, he's talented but is a slow skater will will keep him out of the top 2 rounds i have been told by scouts i have talked to... and where is David Stich, David Skokan and Logan MacMillian they should be considered for the first round ahead of Veilleux ?
Keven Veilleux is sickly overrated, at #25 on the mckeens list, he's talented but is a slow skater will will keep him out of the top 2 rounds i have been told by scouts i have talked to... and where is David Stich, David Skokan and Logan MacMillian they should be considered for the first round ahead of Veilleux ?
All three are in McKeen's top 50, so you're not far off. We have Stich at 35, and MacMillan at 41, but both may very well move up, especially MacMillan if can show a little more offence.
Most of the scouts I've talked to have more worries about Veilleux's physical play than they do his skating. He's by no means a speedster, but for a 6-5 guy that needs to fill out they say he skates okay, and he's got sweet hands. If he ever learns to play with more intensity he's got a lot of upside.
Skokan? He has his share of detractors.
I talked to one scout this week who said flatly "I don't have time for him; he does nothing for me." He was not impressed by his willingness to compete at all. Yet some other scouts like him. Needs to work on his effort. There is some skill there.
Logan MacMillan has questions about his pro upside, and not everyone's sold on his skating. Two scouts last week said "skating is a big issue", while others I've spoken with didn't have a problem with it, but at least a couple of them one wondered about MacMillan's ability to produce offence at the next level. We like him; and think he will rise if he starts putting up better numbers.
Believe me; these rankings are going to be changing - we'll know a lot more about these kids as the playoffs approach and the games get more important.
Veilleux was one of the toughest guys to slot - I personally thought he should have been in the second round, and normally he would be, but this year offers so few players with size and offensive upside that Keven sneaked into our first round.
We have Mayorov fifth in Russia berhind Korostin, Cherepanov, Dubinin and Karamov.
When you say Bachkirov...are you referring to the twins? Ruslan is the higher rated; he's in the top 100.
We're actually in agreement - there are a few players I'd take before Espo (who hasn't impressed me much this year). I just thought you were a bit overzealous in your response to Turnbuckle.
It will be interesting to watch the rankings this year. With it being such a wide open race, there likely will be more rankings that come out that have people scratching their heads...
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