McKeen's Final Ranking, Top 15
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Seachd said:I don't know anything behind it, but CSS lists his birthplace as Tokyo.
They also list Adam Hobson as being born in Sweden.
Like the name suggests, O'Marra is Irish-Canadian. He was born in Tokyo when his Canadian dad was working there in the investment banking industry.
Cole Caulifield
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Pepper said:
Common, one of the dumbest posts ? Why ? Because you're high on a junior and I'm not ? It's not like I'm saying the kid shouldn't be a first rounder...
BTW don't you live in Europe ? If so, how much have you seen of Bourret with your own two eyes to be able to make such a definitive statement ?
And also, if I'm dumb then most of the 10 pro NHL scouts that Bobby Mac interviewed for his annual top 30 must be idiots too because the results of the survey have Bourret ranked 15th, a far cry from the 6th spot on McKeen.
And not that it counts for much because I'd never base my opinion of a prospect I've never seen on a couple of scouting services rankings (which is why I won't ever make a list of a my own, unless I've seen everyone of them at least a couple of times, which probably won't ever happen) but this is the highest I've seen Bourret ranked so far.
Kopitar at 3 
. It was about time people stopped putting guys like Ryan and Pouliot in front of him.
. It was about time people stopped putting guys like Ryan and Pouliot in front of him.
Mess
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Maybe you should follow your own advice in all the threads in your future posts..The little Pepper boy said:
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
It never ceases to amaze me how some people fail to realize just how much of a disparity there is amongst scouts and their rankings. No scout has a crystal ball when it comes to prospects. A quick look at top 10 picks over any draft will prove just how wrong scouts are much of the time. Once you get past a top player like Crosby, this year, there will be disagreement amongst the next 10 players and that disagreement gets greater and greater as you go further down the rankings.
As for McEnzie's list, I think it's important to realize that nowhere did he say that the 10 sources he had were unanimous in their rankings. Just because Pouliot was #2 overall on his list doesn't mean he had 10 people tell him they all thought Pouliot was ranked #2. They very well might have but it's just as possible that only 5 had him at #2, and that 3 more had him at #3 and 1 each at #5 and #7. Unless Bob tells us more, we'll never know but what I take from his list was that he tried to paint a picture using whatever consensus he could get from his sources but not that each of his sources gave him the same list.
Heck, I remember last year people bashed us at Young Guns for having Montoya rated higher than the "clear cut" top goaltender, Marek Schwarz. Whether or not Montoya winds up deserving of our past ranking is a whole other question but the fact remains that he went 1st off the board amongst goalies and Schwarz wasn't even the 2nd goalie taken. It's these differences of opinions that make the draft interesting, to say the least.
As for McEnzie's list, I think it's important to realize that nowhere did he say that the 10 sources he had were unanimous in their rankings. Just because Pouliot was #2 overall on his list doesn't mean he had 10 people tell him they all thought Pouliot was ranked #2. They very well might have but it's just as possible that only 5 had him at #2, and that 3 more had him at #3 and 1 each at #5 and #7. Unless Bob tells us more, we'll never know but what I take from his list was that he tried to paint a picture using whatever consensus he could get from his sources but not that each of his sources gave him the same list.
Heck, I remember last year people bashed us at Young Guns for having Montoya rated higher than the "clear cut" top goaltender, Marek Schwarz. Whether or not Montoya winds up deserving of our past ranking is a whole other question but the fact remains that he went 1st off the board amongst goalies and Schwarz wasn't even the 2nd goalie taken. It's these differences of opinions that make the draft interesting, to say the least.
Cole Caulifield
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Beatnik
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E = CH² said:
Are they the same scouts that did'nt had Kostitsyn in the top 30 two years ago? Where was Wheeler last year?
As many have said, it only takes one team that like him. Also, it's far from impossible that he turn into a great player even if he is'nt as flashy as Latendresse and Zagrapan.
As others have stated, nothing in the draft can ever be stated in absolutes, and if we actually could see every NHL team's draft list and compare, we'd be completely bowled over by the variation.
Brendan Mikkelson at #10 overall is pretty bloody weird, though. I haven't seen anyone else suggest that Mikkelson was any more than a borderline first-rounder, at best, and most Portland fans would tell you that Michael Sauer is a better pro prospect.
Brendan Mikkelson at #10 overall is pretty bloody weird, though. I haven't seen anyone else suggest that Mikkelson was any more than a borderline first-rounder, at best, and most Portland fans would tell you that Michael Sauer is a better pro prospect.
Pepper
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Rabid Ranger said:Lehtonen? What list are you looking at?
From HF article:
5. Mikko Lehtonen, RW
6’4/193, 4/1/1987, R
Blues Jr A
Lehtonen has always been a noticeable player with good height and speed. He has been viewed perhaps as the national team’s most intriguing prospect even when the results haven’t quite reached the level of the top line forward that he is projected to be. Lehtonen’s stickhandling ability is such that his potential isn’t considered limited by skill any more so than by size or movement.
Sometimes Lehtonen is seen as a dangerous sniper, sometimes as a competent checker, but rarely both at the same time. He can be a bit too creative for his own good and hog the puck, failing at consistent team game. He is a risk to not put it all together to a complete, professional package,. History proves that this isn’t a primary concern for NHL organizations on draft day, though, so the well-scouted winger could end up picked a little too early.
He could be a surprise pick a la Niinimäki couple of years ago but I doubt it. Early 2nd round? Who knows.
Cole Caulifield
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Beatnik said:
McKenzie's list is usually very reflective of the actual draft, altough this year things are pretty much up in the air. I don't remember the exact positions of Kost and Wheeler nor much accurate details from McKenzie's past lists either.
But Wheeler's and Kostitsyn's situation are COMPLETELY different from Bourret's. Both Wheeler and Kostitsyn were playing in weaker leagues and didn't get much attention because of this.
Beatnik said:
I never said that it was impossible Bourret would get picked in the top 10. It could certainly happen, altough I'd be REALLY surprised to see him come up at 6th. But that's open for speculation and not out of the question.
What I'm saying is that PERSONALLY, ME, E=CH², after having watched him play about 8-10 games in the reg. season, playoffs, prospect game, etc don't think Bourret is a top 10 talent. If I, myself, were a NHL scout I would not pick him in the top 10. I'd not pick him above Zagrapan and if I were a gambling man I'd possibly pick Latendresse ahead.
I've said Bourret could prove to be a top 10 talent when all is said and done. He could have incredible work ethic, flawless character, grow an inch or two and become a superstar. I don't believe that will happen but I try not to deal in absolutes, but yeah it could happen. Zagrapan and Latendresse could also never play a game in the NHL. I don't claim to be a pro scout, and even pro scouts make a lot of mistakes. I'm merely adding my amateur informed opinion from what I've seen of Bourret.
As for McKeen's top 15, I just don't like their rankings. I think it's crappy. And it certainly isn't one of the dumbest post ever made like pepper tried to make it look like.
Cole Caulifield
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I like it when a rankings agency departs from conventional wisdom on a player- even if I disagree with the ranking. After all, instead of reading the standard reports we've all heard on a certain player we are now going to hear a different perspective from a person or group of people who are pretty knowledgable. That doesn't make them correct of course, but it does add something of note to the body of knowledge and opinions that we have on a player.
This kind of 'dissension' from the norm is a GOOD THING!
By the way if you are looking for 1st round sleepers watch out for Karpov from Russia, Hellstrom from Sweden, Mikus/Mihalik from Slovakia and Niskanen from USHS. Ben Bishop of the NAHL could be a big surprise too. Karpov might well be the 1st Russian taken and could slip into top 20. Niskanen has been rumoured to be in some clubs' top 15.
This is 2nd hand info but for what it's worth...
This kind of 'dissension' from the norm is a GOOD THING!
By the way if you are looking for 1st round sleepers watch out for Karpov from Russia, Hellstrom from Sweden, Mikus/Mihalik from Slovakia and Niskanen from USHS. Ben Bishop of the NAHL could be a big surprise too. Karpov might well be the 1st Russian taken and could slip into top 20. Niskanen has been rumoured to be in some clubs' top 15.
This is 2nd hand info but for what it's worth...
steblick said:
Sure, I agree, that's a good thing. But just to make it clear to everyone, obviously the idea is not to give 'different' opinions and make different rankings just to have some artificial different opinion. The only way to work on this is to watch the players, trust what you see and make ranking and comments based on that. You can't be different in sake of being different, that's not producive, nor is agreeing because everyone else says something. If the work done results different opinions that's great, because then it looks like some things can in fact be seens different ways, which provides more info!
steblick said:
Hellstrom as a first rounder? I liked him in limited look I got this past season but I compared his potencial to Czech defenseman Roman Polak who was drafted only in sixth round one year ago. Frankly I considered Polak as a possible third or fourth round prospect and I value Hellstrom similarly.
markov`
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What a brilliant thread.
As for first round sleeper, I agree some team could take players like Mikus, Karpov and Niskanen very high. I really like Niskanen and would label him as the third best defenseman in the draft.
Other sleepers to watch for are Mathieu Roy, Jakub Vojta and Andrei Zubarev.
As for first round sleeper, I agree some team could take players like Mikus, Karpov and Niskanen very high. I really like Niskanen and would label him as the third best defenseman in the draft.
Other sleepers to watch for are Mathieu Roy, Jakub Vojta and Andrei Zubarev.
markov`
Registered User
Back on the topic, I also remember Tampa Bay Lightnings GM saying last year that Andy Rogers was #7 on their list when they drafted him.
I remember that last year Phoenix's head scout said that Wheeler, Stephenson and Lisin were all in their top 15 (having drafted them 5th, 35th and traded to get Lisin 50th). None of those really figured in the consensus popular top 15 before the draft.
Was pretty surprised at the comment because if those three dont do well, it reflects badly on his judgement.
Another comment I remember back in 2001 was Beat Forster being in their top 30 skaters (drafted 78th)
Was pretty surprised at the comment because if those three dont do well, it reflects badly on his judgement.
Another comment I remember back in 2001 was Beat Forster being in their top 30 skaters (drafted 78th)
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