McGuire says half would take Kessel and half would take Toews!

[pei fan]

Does anyone have current stats for kessel and Toews?

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Personally, I think there are 5-6 guys that I would have no problem taking 1st overall. If it was me with the first pick, I would move down and grab Staal and some other asset for Kessel without any problem. I just don't see Kessel being that far ahead of the rest of the pack at this point. Toews, Frolik, Mueller, Johnson and Staal could all stake claim to 1st overall. The difference is that Kessel has been hyped for a few years now, the others haven't. It's just like Ovechkin/Malkin all over again. Most people went based on hype and concluded that Ovechkin was hands down the best player. Well now people are seeing that may not be the case, as many had said at the time of the draft.

I understand what your saying, but using Ovechkin and Malkin isnt a good example. If i remember correctly Malkin was pretty hyped up as well. I think Kessel will go #1, i dont think Staal, Mueller and Johnson will contest #1 overall.
Frolik and Kessel are the favourites with Toews close behind. Still there isnt that much difference between the top 6 guys and i guess it will be what the team needs are.

 

[BD]

I think his Stanley Cup ring would say otherwise. He knows the game regardless of what people think of him.

more like he knows Zach Parise's cup size.

 

[Kritty]

more like he knows Zach Parise's cup size.

Do you have a Stanley Cup ring? Didn't think so.

 

[Kritty]

I understand what your saying, but using Ovechkin and Malkin isnt a good example. If i remember correctly Malkin was pretty hyped up as well.

It's exactly the same situation. Prior to the season, Ovechkin was the clear cut #1 choice for a few seasons. As the season progressed, Malkin continued to make waves and then started to really make a name for himself. Yes, he had some hype, but not anywhere near the amount he gained as the year progressed. The same thing is happening this year. Kessel has been the clear cut #1 since last season and now some others are coming on strong to make a case for that spot.

Saying Ovechkin was the best pick in 04 is narrow thinking if you ask me. Until more players from that draft class have played in the NHL you can't make that comparison at all. It's far too easy to say that at this point.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Does anyone have current stats for kessel and Toews?

Phil Kessel: 18 GP/9 G/13 A/22 PTS
Jonathan Toews: 18 GP/7 G/4 A/11 PTS

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Personally, I think there are 5-6 guys that I would have no problem taking 1st overall. If it was me with the first pick, I would move down and grab Staal and some other asset for Kessel without any problem. I just don't see Kessel being that far ahead of the rest of the pack at this point. Toews, Frolik, Mueller, Johnson and Staal could all stake claim to 1st overall. The difference is that Kessel has been hyped for a few years now, the others haven't. It's just like Ovechkin/Malkin all over again. Most people went based on hype and concluded that Ovechkin was hands down the best player. Well now people are seeing that may not be the case, as many had said at the time of the draft.

I disagree. First of all, I think regardless of what people think around here, Kessel is the clear-cut favorite, perhaps even lock for number one overall. His play this season with the Gophers has justified his number one ranking with EVERY scouting service. The real question is who is the favorite to be 2nd? IMO, that is where Toews, Frolik, and Johnson come in. If a team is looking for a d-man, Johnson could very well be the guy. After those three it comes to guys like Mueller and Staal to fill what would amount to the fifth and six positions.

The bottomline is, Kessel and Toews is nothing like Ovechkin and Malkin, because Toews in particular isn't the consensus number two player in this draft, regardless of what Pierre McGuire or Bob McKenzie thinks.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

It's exactly the same situation. Prior to the season, Ovechkin was the clear cut #1 choice for a few seasons. As the season progressed, Malkin continued to make waves and then started to really make a name for himself. Yes, he had some hype, but not anywhere near the amount he gained as the year progressed. The same thing is happening this year. Kessel has been the clear cut #1 since last season and now some others are coming on strong to make a case for that spot.

Saying Ovechkin was the best pick in 04 is narrow thinking if you ask me. Until more players from that draft class have played in the NHL you can't make that comparison at all. It's far too easy to say that at this point.

Well ovechkin is the best pick in 04 at the moment and only Malkin really could ever challenge that. Also whilst Malkin was closing the gap, unlike this years draft it was just 2 of them. Olesz was considered a distant 3rd for ahile until his stock fell, and really the top two are way ahead of everyone else.
Kessel isnt getting as much hype anymore or is it me? I mean he was compared to being the american version of Crosby at one stage. The hype seems to have dropped a bit.
Kessel is still the favourite IMO to get picked #1. He is probably the most dynamic offensively, i prefer him over Toews. Kessel, Frolik and Staal are the guys id love to have.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Pierre says a lot of stuff like this. Its his way of complementing a player when he gets excited. I highly doubt it was a statement of fact.

Pierre McGuire's fantasy is being in a manwich between Sidney Crosby and Dion Phaneuf.

 

[BD]

Do you have a Stanley Cup ring? Didn't think so.

a ring does not make a man wise, Samgee.

 

[Le Golie]

Hey wait, I think Pierre might be on to something. I polled every active HFBOARDS poster except one, and found that exactly half indeed prefered Toews over Kessel.

If you are reading this and realizing that you were the one I didn't ask, I'm sorry I forgot you. You will be included in my next poll.

 

[BD]

I wonder how Eddie Olczyk's Stanley Cup ring helped him coach the Penguins...b/c evidently, all you need is a ring to do anything.

 

[MN_Gopher]

I think part of the reason that the Kessel hype is dropping is; people wanted him to go major junior and lost interest with him, scoring in the NCAA is not easy so his stats are not greatly exagerated like Schremps, he is getting better in his own end and back cheching more- becoming a better player but not scoring as much. Kessel's best all around game may have been the NoDak series. The defensive move he put on Stafford was amazing. But it does not show up in the stat sheet.

 

[Juan]

Do you have a Stanley Cup ring? Didn't think so.

I have a World Series ring from working a summer job in the Toronto Blue Jays ticket office in 1992 (CZ's though, not diamonds). That is no joke.

That doesn't make me Joe Torre.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think part of the reason that the Kessel hype is dropping is; people wanted him to go major junior and lost interest with him, scoring in the NCAA is not easy so his stats are not greatly exagerated like Schremps, he is getting better in his own end and back cheching more- becoming a better player but not scoring as much. Kessel's best all around game may have been the NoDak series. The defensive move he put on Stafford was amazing. But it does not show up in the stat sheet.

I don't think Kessel's hype is dropping at all. Other players are getting more recognition, but he's still the consensus number one.

 

[Gopher_Nut]

I think part of the reason that the Kessel hype is dropping is; people wanted him to go major junior and lost interest with him, scoring in the NCAA is not easy so his stats are not greatly exagerated like Schremps, he is getting better in his own end and back cheching more- becoming a better player but not scoring as much. Kessel's best all around game may have been the NoDak series. The defensive move he put on Stafford was amazing. But it does not show up in the stat sheet.

That move was amazing! Stafford is no slouch himself..Kessel caught up to him, went around behind him and pulled his stick off the puck...
Speed & Smarts.

Toews looks to be a REALLY good player, smarty and fiesty. Still, bias aside, Kessel was much the better player last weekend!!

 

[BD]

there is only one ring to rule them all....McGuire's eye maybe on YOU!!!!

in short, yes...ring means nothing when you talk to GMs and are a blow-hard analyst. McGuire is not very good at that...but i'm sure he was the bees knees on skates when it was a cup run. Irrelevent, I say, to this discussion. How many conversations or debates would we cut short with such innanity...where if you don't have a ring, yet that person may, thus he must be right or know something. Silliness, I say.

You won't have a good read on prospects, ESPECIALLY on the top 2 or 3 until it's time. Anything can and will happen, and not many GMs are going to have a surefire 1 or 2, until they aren't fretting over this years CBA, and season. Kessell, btw, will go #1. and i base my vaunted views and postings on a decoder ring I got from a box of Cheerios.


Carry on my wayward sons!


goochie

 

[#66]

That move was amazing! Stafford is no slouch himself..Kessel caught up to him, went around behind him and pulled his stick off the puck...
Speed & Smarts.

Toews looks to be a REALLY good player, smarty and fiesty. Still, bias aside, Kessel was much the better player last weekend!!

I'm not even a Kessel fan and I have to agree. Thats the best I've seen him play so far.

 

[therealdeal]

I guess he didn't see Kessel outplay Toews.

I didn't see that either, and I watched the game.

I didn't think Kessel was anything special at all, he tried his typical moves, inside outside, and any good defenseman will easily stop that.

 

[#66]

I didn't see that either, and I watched the game.

I didn't think Kessel was anything special at all, he tried his typical moves, inside outside, and any good defenseman will easily stop that.

I thought that he carried Minny's play a little more than Toews did for NoDak. I would give the slight edge to Kessel but I still don't think that his game is suited for the NHL at all. Even his goal was non impressive last weekend, as are most of Kessels points this year. Thats just not going to beat an NHL goalie.

 

[wildone26*]

It is funny how quickly things can change. During the World-under-18 hockey final between Canada and the U.S last year; the commentators were questioning on whether or not Kessel would be as good as Crosby soon. Now he may not even be the #1 pick in the entry draft, losing out to somebody who was almost an unknown 8 months ago.

 

[therealdeal]

I thought that he carried Minny's play a little more than Toews did for NoDak. I would give the slight edge to Kessel but I still don't think that his game is suited for the NHL at all. Even his goal was non impressive last weekend, as are most of Kessels points this year. Thats just not going to beat an NHL goalie.

I would tend to agree, I admit to only seeing him a few times, but the games that I've seen I haven't been that impressed. Everyone talks about how well he did at the World Juniors, especially the game he got the hat trick. Well those were just about the worst goals I've ever seen, not even your below average back up goalie would let those in, and certainly he won't be able to beat a good NHL defenseman with those moves.

Toews plays a much smarter game, and as Pierre mentioned, he does win a surprsing amount of one-on-one battles that he appears to always have the disadvantage in.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I didn't see that either, and I watched the game.

I didn't think Kessel was anything special at all, he tried his typical moves, inside outside, and any good defenseman will easily stop that.

Yeah, Kessel's just an average player with average ability and an average future.......

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I thought that he carried Minny's play a little more than Toews did for NoDak. I would give the slight edge to Kessel but I still don't think that his game is suited for the NHL at all. Even his goal was non impressive last weekend, as are most of Kessels points this year. Thats just not going to beat an NHL goalie.

Yeah, just a rocket over Parise's shoulder on the PP. That never happens in the NHL.......

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It is funny how quickly things can change. During the World-under-18 hockey final between Canada and the U.S last year; the commentators were questioning on whether or not Kessel would be as good as Crosby soon. Now he may not even be the #1 pick in the entry draft, losing out to somebody who was almost an unknown 8 months ago.

Why, because of what certain people are saying on this website? I don't think so.