Rumor: McDavid Camp Seeking 14m Per?

[Macblender]

This. Saying all that about Draisaitl won't make him take less. If you have some of the best players in the NHL, they get paid like it. It just so happens that McDavid is the best in the world. And Leon is a top #1 center on a team with Connor.

Logically this argument is flawed as McDavid is the #1 C on a team with Mcdavid. Draisaitl while a phenomenal piece has show he produces big when paired with an elite player while possessing elite skill himself.

To me he deserves to get paid but in like with the players he compares to where we come to an impasse as none of the players he compares to statistically had one of the top two players in the world on their line. They all also drove there own lines success.

So what do you propose he get paid? and please note that I have not proposed he is a below average player who is no better than RNH as you have proposed people are saying as you see below .

Yep, suddenly Leon is an average to below average player, who hasn't proven anything and is really no better than RNH.

The re-write of history has begun.

I do not think you will see any single person argue for the points you are saying you see proposed in a re-write of history.

 

[atowalters]

I mean this is where I disagree Leon hasn't proven that by himself and even then Tank is way more comparable if he legit wants 9 you open up the phones on trades we can make RNH our second center and we would have legit top pairing if we could pry Parayko from STL I would like to keep Drai especially after the Pens proved you don't need a #1 dman to win a cup but sill this would be the better option instead of signing the 9mil.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=160174

And find me another guy with his skill set at his age.

 

[McBigYak]

1. I hope you are taking less money for the good of your company
2. How is this true. Him and Hall were dominant last year before he hit a wall. Conditioning was an issue but his skills were evident.
3. I'm pretty sure you implied that (I think it was you).
4. Why weren't players like Hall/Eberle able to be elevated by McDavid? Maybe Draisaitl is contributing something to that pair.
5. You could give me 4 picks around 10 and I doubt you find anything as good as Draisaitl. You are more likely to end up with a collection of players in the MPS/Nurse tier than you are a star.

1. I wouldn't walk into my bosses office and demand a ludicrous raise after having one year of good sales.(I don't work in sales but just using that as an example)

2.

With Hall: 34 points, 879 minutes, 2.3 points/hour
Without Hall: 3 points, 160 minutes, 1.1 points/hour

Draisaitl without Mcdavid : 1.8 points per hour
Draisaitl with Mcdavid: 2.24 points per hour.

Even strength obviously. Draisaitl is statistically worse in every category when manning his own line away from Mcdavid.

3. I never did. We would be much better off with Drai as our #2 C, IF the price is right. If the price is north of 9 million, I simply said we would be much better running Nuge as our 2C and acquiring something significant for Draisaitl

4. Possible, but you don't know this yet either.

5. Draisaitl has had 2 succesfull seasons clearly benefiting from playing with 2 offensive drivers. Before we pay him 9 million dollars and announce him as a star, let's maybe see if he can do it on his own? Like I said before, I'll bring up the Horcoff contract. ONE season of 1C numbers and he gets a massive contract, which burdened this organization for years. If you think it can't possibly happen again you're nuts.

 

[atowalters]

Logically this argument is flawed as McDavid is the #1 C on a team with Mcdavid. Draisaitl while a phenomenal piece has show he produces big when paired with an elite player while possessing elite skill himself.

To me he deserves to get paid but in like with the players he compares to where we come to an impasse as none of the players he compares to statistically had one of the top two players in the world on their line. They all also drove there own lines success.

So what do you propose he get paid? and please note that I have not proposed he is a below average player who is no better than RNH as you have proposed people are saying as you see below .



I do not think you will see any single person argue for the points you are saying you see proposed in a re-write of history.

McDavid is a #1 center with McDavid?!?!?

Your SERIOUSLY comparing Leon with Yak in saying he can only be successful with good players?!?!?

Re-read the comments in the thread. I don't think allot of these issues with his game and what he did this year and in the playoffs were a figment of the imagination.

On most teams, he would be a #1 center. He was a steal in his draft year.

 

[frag2]

1. I wouldn't walk into my bosses office and demand a ludicrous raise after having one year of good sales.(I don't work in sales but just using that as an example)

2.

With Hall: 34 points, 879 minutes, 2.3 points/hour
Without Hall: 3 points, 160 minutes, 1.1 points/hour

Draisaitl without Mcdavid : 1.8 points per hour
Draisaitl with Mcdavid: 2.24 points per hour.

Even strength obviously.

3. I never did. We would be much better off with Drai as our #2 C, IF the price is right. If the price is north of 9 million, I simply said we would be much better running Nuge as our 2C and acquiring something significant for Draisaitl

4. Possible, but you don't know this yet either.

5. Draisaitl has had 2 succesfull seasons clearly benefiting from playing with 2 offensive drivers. Before we pay him 9 million dollars and announce him as a star, let's maybe see if he can do it on his own? Like I said before, I'll bring up the Horcoff contract. ONE season of 1C numbers and he gets a massive contract, which burdened this organization for years. If you think it can't possibly happen again you're nuts.

I want nothing to do with Nuge running any line that is relied on for offence, period. Jack of all trades, **** at every one.

 

[Soundwave]

I want nothing to do with Nuge running any line that is relied on for offence, period. Jack of all trades, **** at every one.

"Hey Ebs, Is your mom coming to pick us up after the game, because I can't drive."

 

[LTIR]

I want nothing to do with Nuge running any line that is relied on for offence, period. Jack of all trades, **** at every one.

Drai @ 9M vs RNH @ 6M as 2C + return for Drai


torn!

 

[Macblender]

So Drai is getting criticized for showing up in the playoffs and carried his own line while being sick? 13 games is a lot of games in the playoffs. Some players don't even sniff one let alone dominate.

Letestu out point McDavid. Drai straight up dominated the playoffs. There's a difference

I am saying based on what you look at you can spin the playoffs a few ways and most of them show we needed a little more from McDavid points wise. I made the argument based on the fact I think it is subjective who our best player in the playoffs was.

Please point out where I criticized Drai....

My counterpoints to your argument:

- He was sick in the SJ series where he was playing on McDavid's line.

- I did not criticize him for showing up I am saying that people need to consider he shot 27.3% in the playoffs. Do you know how many players shot above or equal to 20% in the regular season over a statistically significant sample size (according to Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky that sample size=34)?
4 players out of the 888 that dressed in the league or 0.0045%
I get it he was otherworldly and I love the guy but think about that percentage it is awfully low and does not signal an event that is easily repeatable. Do I think he should be paid 8-9M because of this no. Do I think he should be paid close to the Tarasenko range? Yes I do but would prefer a 7-7.5M caphit which is reasonable.


So dominate yes he did and I will not disagree although I thought McDavid had more impact opening up space etc. and creating scoring chances although he failed to capitalize or people failed to on his passes.

He for the most part during the playoffs played on McDavid's line while he did play extremely well off of it again one 5 point game is not enough to prove to me he is worth 8-9M. Using this logic Sam Gagner should be locked up after his 8 point game. But we need elongated results and trust me I am not comparing him to Gagner I am just comparing the dangers of arguing based on a small sample size.

 

[atowalters]

"Hey Ebs, Is your mom coming to pick us up after the game, because I can't drive."

I remember how productive they were in the playoffs. Completely better than Drai.

 

[frag2]

"Hey Ebs, Is your mom coming to pick us up after the game, because I can't drive."

While I'm not going to be overtly optimistic about what Drai might be wanting/getting, I cannot deal with another Nuge run offensive line. He clearly has no ability to drive any offence whatsoever. Now he's got no Hall [or Eberle when he wasn't chicken ****], he's gonna be even more hard pressed to get points. He'll just be a $6M paper weight that can "look" defensively responsible and dump and unsuccessfully chase.

 

[frag2]

Drai @ 9M vs RNH @ 6M as 2C + return for Drai


torn!

Well, when you put it like that, you're actually looking at Drai @ 9M vs return for Drai really.

 

[Macblender]

McDavid is a #1 center with McDavid?!?!?

Your SERIOUSLY comparing Leon with Yak in saying he can only be successful with good players?!?!?

Re-read the comments in the thread. I don't think allot of these issues with his game and what he did this year and in the playoffs were a figment of the imagination.

On most teams, he would be a #1 center. He was a steal in his draft year.

How is that confusing hahahahah. Come on man.

Do you see it as:

XXX-McDavid-XXX
XXX-Drai-XXX

or with Drai as the #1C since that is what you implied in your post word for word that he has proven to be the #1C but somehow forgot McDavid is our #1C.


Only in your imagination did I compare Leon with Yak haha. I said he plays extremely well with elite players while possessing elite skill himself... If you read it again it pretty much tells you that Drai has elite skill and meshed well with Hall and McDavid. This is a fantastic quality.

I have read quite a few posts and the only argument I see as a strike against Leon is that he has produced substantially less without Hall/McDavid than he does with. So it is the basis to not pay him more than other elite players who are comparable in Tarasenko and pay him more in line with them.

I am not disputing whether he would be a 1c on other teams or not as that is case by case all I said is he is not on this team so he logically cannot of proven he is the 1C on our team. If he has then god damn pay the man 13M also.

 

[GMofOilers]

Leon is getting 8.5 if the term 8 years. At least. You guys are just going to have to live with that. No way he takes that much less than Connor and only a bit more than a bum like RNH.

It's gonna be about 22 million for the both of them.

How much were you honestly expecting? I was expecting at least 20M for the 2.

 

[ujju2]

I'd rather have RNH + return for Drai than Drai @ 9m. However, I really like Drai, and hope he signs between 7 and 8.25. That would be ideal.

 

[Soundwave]

Neither is getting traded. They are just going to take Chia to the cleaners at the negotiating table because Chia negotiates like a fat kid in a candy shop. That's all that's going to happen.

I just don't want to hear in 4-5 years the "gee, this winning a Stanley Cup thing sure is hard" line from either one of them.

 

[McDeepika]

1. I wouldn't walk into my bosses office and demand a ludicrous raise after having one year of good sales.(I don't work in sales but just using that as an example)

2.

With Hall: 34 points, 879 minutes, 2.3 points/hour
Without Hall: 3 points, 160 minutes, 1.1 points/hour

Draisaitl without Mcdavid : 1.8 points per hour
Draisaitl with Mcdavid: 2.24 points per hour.

Even strength obviously. Draisaitl is statistically worse in every category when manning his own line away from Mcdavid.

3. I never did. We would be much better off with Drai as our #2 C, IF the price is right. If the price is north of 9 million, I simply said we would be much better running Nuge as our 2C and acquiring something significant for Draisaitl

4. Possible, but you don't know this yet either.

5. Draisaitl has had 2 succesfull seasons clearly benefiting from playing with 2 offensive drivers. Before we pay him 9 million dollars and announce him as a star, let's maybe see if he can do it on his own? Like I said before, I'll bring up the Horcoff contract. ONE season of 1C numbers and he gets a massive contract, which burdened this organization for years. If you think it can't possibly happen again you're nuts.

I won't dispute those numbers. I would ask that you provide Hall and McDavid's numbers with and without Draisaitl also.

And why does he HAVE to produce 100% on his own? Did anybody ever tell Perry he can't get paid until he plays away from Getzlaf? That Daniel Sedin can't get paid until he produces without Henrik?

The truth is we are never going to know the answer to this unless McDavid gets hurt.

 

[McDeepika]

I'd rather have RNH + return for Drai than Drai @ 9m. However, I really like Drai, and hope he signs between 7 and 8.25. That would be ideal.

I could understand this line of thinking if I had any faith in RNH. Sadly, I don't

 

[atowalters]

How is that confusing hahahahah. Come on man.

Do you see it as:

XXX-McDavid-XXX
XXX-Drai-XXX

or with Drai as the #1C since that is what you implied in your post word for word that he has proven to be the #1C but somehow forgot McDavid is our #1C.


Only in your imagination did I compare Leon with Yak haha. I said he plays extremely well with elite players while possessing elite skill himself... If you read it again it pretty much tells you that Drai has elite skill and meshed well with Hall and McDavid. This is a fantastic quality.

I have read quite a few posts and the only argument I see as a strike against Leon is that he has produced substantially less without Hall/McDavid than he does with. So it is the basis to not pay him more than other elite players who are comparable in Tarasenko and pay him more in line with them.

I am not disputing whether he would be a 1c on other teams or not as that is case by case all I said is he is not on this team so he logically cannot of proven he is the 1C on our team. If he has then god damn pay the man 13M also.

Yak was only good when playing with a good to great player. Was that not your argument for Leon?

We have McDavid. Find another team that would put him as a second line center.

 

[McBigYak]

I won't dispute those numbers. I would ask that you provide Hall and McDavid's numbers with and without Draisaitl also.

And why does he HAVE to produce 100% on his own? Did anybody ever tell Perry he can't get paid until he plays away from Getzlaf? That Daniel Sedin can't get paid until he produces without Henrik?

The truth is we are never going to know the answer to this unless McDavid gets hurt.

I will dig up some numbers on Hall. I know Mcdavid saw something like a 8-10 percent increase with Drai.

The difference with these are you are asking for a winger to get paid away from his center. The centers main objective is driving offense the majority of the time. The job of a centerman is astronomically more difficult than a winger. You put a skilled centerman with a bunch of mediocre wingers he can turn them into point producing machines. The opposite is not exactly true. Hence why a centreman is arguably the most important position in the game.

Unless you are going off the fact that you would like Drai to remain on Mcdavids wing. Which I think in the end will be awful for the team. At that kind of money the best position for him is the 2C slot. I would imagine if Drai gets 7.5+ we can say goodbye to Nuge at some point and we will be running Mcdavid 1 and Draisaitl 2.

 

[Draw Me a McElephant]

Leon is getting 8.5 if the term 8 years. At least. You guys are just going to have to live with that. No way he takes that much less than Connor and only a bit more than a bum like RNH.

It's gonna be about 22 million for the both of them.

So Drai gets 1 - 2.5 M more than all of his comparables? Why? If he gets more than Tarasenko money then it is a failure by Chia. It seems that he is very poor at negotiating.

 

[Macblender]

Yak was only good when playing with a good to great player. Was that not your argument for Leon?

If you re-read my post that is not the argument at all and I never mentioned or compared him to Yakupov at all.

It is purely he complements elite players and meshes with them extremely well which is a huge plus for him and the team giving us flexibility. Secondly he has elite skill himself.

Where this all leads the argument is that the results dropped off away from McDavid/Hall although I think most if not all people agree that he is a great player himself. Trust me I agree with you in all likelihood he is the 1C on a few teams in this league and would be on ours if we did not have McDavid.

My sole question is how much did McDavid impact his results? I do not know of a way to argue that he did not impact Draisaitl. If you can find one please let me know. If you cannot you have to factor it into whether you pay him like Malkin-lite at the 8-9M or you pay him like his nearest comparables in Tarasenko/Gaudreau/Scheifele/Barkov etc which is the 6.5-7.5 range in my opinion. As much as people want to read into this post as a oh my god he is a bad player I am saying the exact opposite. It is a manner of just how good of a player he is and paying him according to that.

 

[LTIR]

How is that confusing hahahahah. Come on man.

Do you see it as:

XXX-McDavid-XXX
XXX-Drai-XXX

or with Drai as the #1C since that is what you implied in your post word for word that he has proven to be the #1C but somehow forgot McDavid is our #1C.

not sure about the reason or the context of this post but one can easily argue that Draisaitl was the #1C for Edmonton last year.

McDavid was all over the ice and defensive assignments were a crap shoot on that line. Draisaitl took a lot more faceoffs than McDavid. Both worked well off each other but there really werent set positions. Drai played a lot of C last year despite being on the line with McDavid.

With McDrai set to make 20+ million your XXX would need to be bargain contracts sans Lucic..

Strome, Caggiula, Slepychev would need to step up. Puljujarvi might get a cheap bridge deal or be shipped off for cap reasons. RNH is as good as gone.

 

[Macblender]

not sure about the reason or the context of this post but one can easily argue that Draisaitl was the #1C for Edmonton last year.

McDavid was all over the ice and defensive assignments were a crap shoot on that line. Draisaitl took a lot more faceoffs than McDavid. Both worked well off each other but there really werent set positions. Drai played a lot of C last year despite being on the line with McDavid.

Context is saying that McDavid was our #1C and Drai was our #1RW. The reasoning was that it was argued that Drai had proven he was our #1C which I just called a logical fallacy even if you can argue either way it is not proven I guess due to you derailing my argument hahaha.

But I would say they flipped back to their positions and McDavid was the C on the line from my observations while after faceoffs Drai went to RW. SO I will leave it as debatable.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The one odd thing I find is why are we just now seeing these super high numbers vs. back in May or early June?

Considering back during the Cup finals it was being reporting everyone was fairly close, so what's changed? Even at that point it was well known McJesus was going to win the Hart, so I don't see how making it official suddenly bumps 2 mill on to his asking price.

Same with Draisaitl, i don't see how he has a leg to stand on when asking for more than Tank money (or a even 7 mil). In regards to a potencial offer sheet, honestly what GM is going to put their job on the line by giving 9+ million to a player that's never been a PPG or even driven his own line?

 

[LTIR]

Context is saying that McDavid was our #1C and Drai was our #1RW. The reasoning was that it was argued that Drai had proven he was our #1C which I just called a logical fallacy even if you can argue either way it is not proven I guess due to you derailing my argument hahaha.

But I would say they flipped back to their positions and McDavid was the C on the line from my observations while after faceoffs Drai went to RW. SO I will leave it as debatable.

Draisaitl hasnt proven **** as a C so i agree with you.
Before the playoffs he was a 6.75M player.. not sure how 9 good playoffs games jumped him up to ~9M per.