Player Discussion Max Pacioretty -- Part 5

[Cobra Commander]

Wax Statueretty needs a change of scene before he melts under the heat.

 

[habsfan909]

It was another mistake by management to make him captain.

He floats around because he doesn't know what to do with the puck when he gets it. We saw that when he was (erroneously) on the half wall on the powerplay. He doesn't handle the puck well. He should never have been in that role. He's a guy that for the most part won't hurt you defensively and will get open for a shot when he's playing with a playmaker.

I wonder if the fact that he doesn't handle the puck well means he just won't be as effective in the new NHL, where hooking the hands is called and players with puck skills are leaving those without in the dust.

I'm for trading him because 1) as you said no way should he get a big contract and 2) he just may not be that effective in the new NHL.

However, as bad as we were before he got injured, we were worse when he went down. He still is a positive player for the team. For example he, Danault and Hudon gives us another line that is dangerous offensively. Danault isn't as effective offensively with other players.

I wouldn't call Max, Danault, Hudon dangerous offensively. They're certainly not scaring anyone on the other team. I do agree we are better with Max than without him but we cannot afford to give a player with his limitations 7-8 million. When Max is playing well he does score goals at a top 5 clip but he isn't half the player the other guys in that top 5 are. And we can't waste 7+million on a no show playoff player, NOT that it matters since we aren't making the playoffs lmao.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I wouldn't call Max, Danault, Hudon dangerous offensively. They're certainly not scaring anyone on the other team. I do agree we are better with Max than without him but we cannot afford to give a player with his limitations 7-8 million. When Max is playing well he does score goals at a top 5 clip but he isn't half the player the other guys in that top 5 are. And we can't waste 7+million on a no show playoff player, NOT that it matters since we aren't making the playoffs lmao.

No, we are better with the Pacioretty/Radulov combo, with just Max alone he makes us worse.

 

[Habs100]

I wouldn't call Max, Danault, Hudon dangerous offensively. They're certainly not scaring anyone on the other team. I do agree we are better with Max than without him but we cannot afford to give a player with his limitations 7-8 million. When Max is playing well he does score goals at a top 5 clip but he isn't half the player the other guys in that top 5 are. And we can't waste 7+million on a no show playoff player, NOT that it matters since we aren't making the playoffs lmao.

Ultimately, I just hope we're able to get a good return for him. I wanted either a lottery pick or a blue chip prospect. Wanting both is unrealistic imo, although I'm not sure Bergevin is aware of that. We'll probably have to settle for a late 1st and a decent prospect who isn't a blue chip prospect but may turn out well, like Kailer Yamamoto. But, I fear Bergevin is in win now mode, and no team is giving up a quality player on their roster plus excellent futures for Pacioretty.

...

But, while calling Pacioretty Danault Hudon a dangerous line isn't the right choice of words, they are a quality top 9 line. If you have 3 like that, that's a pretty good offense (and we're capable of having 3 like that: Pacioretty Danault Hudon, Scherbak Galchenyuk Lehkonen, Byron Drouin Gallagher). So when you take Pacioretty and Danault out of the equation, and the coach refuses to play Galchenyuk at center, you get an offense incapable of sustaining pressure.

 

[habsfan909]

Ultimately, I just hope we're able to get a good return for him. I wanted either a lottery pick or a blue chip prospect. Wanting both is unrealistic imo, although I'm not sure Bergevin is aware of that. We'll probably have to settle for a late 1st and a decent prospect who isn't a blue chip prospect but may turn out well, like Kailer Yamamoto. But, I fear Bergevin is in win now mode, and no team is giving up a quality player on their roster plus excellent futures for Pacioretty.

...

But, while calling Pacioretty Danault Hudon a dangerous line isn't the right choice of words, they are a quality top 9 line. If you have 3 like that, that's a pretty good offense (and we're capable of having 3 like that: Pacioretty Danault Hudon, Scherbak Galchenyuk Lehkonen, Byron Drouin Gallagher). So when you take Pacioretty and Danault out of the equation, and the coach refuses to play Galchenyuk at center, you get an offense incapable of sustaining pressure.

That is a terrible top 9 though.... Danault is not good enough to play 2C (yes on our team he is but I mean if you want to win something he isn't). Max is easy to take out of the play since he just floats waiting for a pass. Danault/Hudon aren't a risk to score really. Drouin has proven he is NOT the answer at centre and at this point I have no faith in him as anything more than he was in Tampa and that's a PP specialist. And Chucky simply won't be playing centre on the Habs. So you are still missing...drumroll.... a 1C and a 2C which is the same s**** as always.
I know people are dreaming for Tavares... that's not happening.
Bergevin thinks he is getting Malkin for Max. Obvious exaggeration but his demands are definitely WAY overvalued.
In the top 9 you listed above I would trade as many as possible for picks/prospects. All except Galch honestly and maybe Scherbak.

As for win now - Bergevin is in win enough to squeak into the playoffs mode. That's his win now mode. Since he thinks anyone in the playoffs is a legit contender and it's all a crap shoot.

 

[Sterling Archer]

One thing is clear, Nash carried his team to a playoff series win. Max was invisible in th playoffs throughout his career

There is absolutely nothing incoherent about my posts.
A very simple truth was expounded upon. Rick Nash is was and always will be a better hockey player than Max Pacioretty.
Max will not approach approach Nash's numbers starting with goals scored or points. As much as Nash is falling off Max is right behind him. I'm very curious to see who if anyone takes a shot at grabbing Patch for next season. As far as star status goes neither are superstars but Nash was the closer of the two.

Hey, how’s your superstar Nash bringing it these playoffs and carrying his team to victory?

Rick Nash Stats and News

Oufff. Not looking like a star out there is he...

 

[CHwest]

Hey, how’s your superstar Nash bringing it these playoffs and carrying his team to victory?

Rick Nash Stats and News

Oufff. Not looking like a star out there is he...

Unlike Maxipad would tears it up every post season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Unlike Maxipad would tears it up every post season.

Better than 1 goal in 6 games and counting for a superstar like Rick Nash... way to carry his team to victory!

 

[tazsub3]

Hey, how’s your superstar Nash bringing it these playoffs and carrying his team to victory?

Rick Nash Stats and News

Oufff. Not looking like a star out there is he...

His team is through to the 2nd round.... Max is cleaning his bbq

 

[tazsub3]

Better than 1 goal in 6 games and counting for a superstar like Rick Nash... way to carry his team to victory!

there is always somethhing funny with premature talk....lol

 

[Sterling Archer]

His team is through to the 2nd round.... Max is cleaning his bbq

We all know it wasn't thanks to anything Rick Nash did, though. That's kind of the point isn't it??

You're playoff hero basically did zero...

 

[HOPE]

His team is through to the 2nd round.... Max is cleaning his bbq

Double standard.

 

[ole ole]

His team is through to the 2nd round.... Max is cleaning his bbq

So are a few other passengers on that team.Doesn't make any of them better than Patches.

 

[Redux91]

I believe it would be a colossal mistake if you did not trade this man at the draft for another first rounder .. i just cant see how this is not imminent..

My fear has always been an extension.and its STILL possible....

but after that whole attitude press conference by bergevin,..i HAVE to believe even he, saw what max truly is, and i beleive he was talking mainly about max during that PC, i have to believe it

so he could very well be gone, had some good years for SURE i mean i loved him at some point but its clear that he just cant be here anymore, he hurts the team, he's passed his prime, and he's fed up of being here.. grant his and our wish marc

 

[Be a Hab]

So.. If Evander Kane got 7 million for 7 years, how much does Pacioretty get? I'm thinking at least 7m for 5 year's. Also this have to effect he's trading value, right?

 

[Adam Michaels]

So.. If Evander Kane got 7 million for 7 years, how much does Pacioretty get? I'm thinking at least 7m for 5 year's. Also this have to effect he's trading value, right?

Because he's older, the term will surely be different. The money will be the same, if not some more.

I think 5x7M or 5x7.5M or even 4x8M

 

[Be a Hab]

Because he's older, the term will surely be different. The money will be the same, if not some more.

Pacioretty is a proven 60 point player. I don't think he makes more than 8M/per though, I mean, I don't think anyone would pay him that, especially that hes now 30 years old.

 

[LaP]

I would trade him before giving him that money.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Pacioretty is a proven 60 point player. I don't think he makes more than 8M/per though, I mean, I don't think anyone would pay him that, especially that hes now 30 years old.

Look at it this way:

5x7M = 35M in total
4x8M = 32M in total.
3x8.5M = 25.5M in total.

Even if the cap hit is higher, the term being shorter still saves money the team money.

 

[Scriptor]

Look at it this way:

5x7M = 35M in total
4x8M = 32M in total.
3x8.5M = 25.5M in total.

Even if the cap hit is higher, the term being shorter still saves money the team money.

Yeah, but impacts your ability to add to your team and keep Pacioretty at his best as a secondary scoring option.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Yeah, but impacts your ability to add to your team and keep Pacioretty at his best as a secondary scoring option.

Depends what team and how much room them have under the cap. It also depends what other moves they make to create more cap space. This year aside, Max is a 30+ goal, 60+ point player. There are very few teams he'd be "secondary scoring" on.

Evander Kane, who is being used as a comparable for the moment, got 7x7M when he only has one 30-goal season under his belt (2011-12) and he only had one season of over 50 points. It didn't stop Sharks from giving him that money even though that will also impact their ability to add to their team.

Max has had five 30+ goals and five seasons of over 60 points. Someone will pay for that. And the team who will give him the big money will most probably feel like they already have other pieces in place and Max is the missing piece to take them over the hump.

I think Max will get either the same money as Kane, if not a bit more. The difference will be the term because of the age difference between Kane and Pacioretty.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Screw the Center position

I would trade pac to fill that 1 ld spot permanently

A signed Pac for For Hanifin or valimaki ?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Screw the Center position

I would trade pac to fill that 1 ld spot permanently

A signed Pac for For Hanifin or valimaki ?

Hanifin would be one of my top priorities to acquire via trade. I don't know what it would take. Maybe like you say, a signed Max could help in that. McKenzie said that the only untouchable is Aho. And towards the end of the year, Hanifin was overtaken by Slavin as the top LD. So Canes would surely be open to use Hanifin in a deal to address a bigger need. Also, with the new owner looking to shake things up there, they'd be easy trading partners.

 

[Habs100]

I wouldn't call Max, Danault, Hudon dangerous offensively. They're certainly not scaring anyone on the other team. I do agree we are better with Max than without him but we cannot afford to give a player with his limitations 7-8 million. When Max is playing well he does score goals at a top 5 clip but he isn't half the player the other guys in that top 5 are. And we can't waste 7+million on a no show playoff player, NOT that it matters since we aren't making the playoffs lmao.

If our top 3 lines are:

Pacioretty Danault Hudon
Lehkonen/Byron Drouin Gallagher
Scherbak Galchenyuk Zadina

that would be 3 good offensive lines. The problem is management won't put Galchenyuk at center, and will instead put Plekanec or DLR in the 3 hole. That means only 2 good offensive lines which is much easier to check. With the 3 above lines, the Pacioretty line is less well defended.

 

[habsfan909]

If our top 3 lines are:

Pacioretty Danault Hudon
Lehkonen/Byron Drouin Gallagher
Scherbak Galchenyuk Zadina

that would be 3 good offensive lines. The problem is management won't put Galchenyuk at center, and will instead put Plekanec or DLR in the 3 hole. That means only 2 good offensive lines which is much easier to check. With the 3 above lines, the Pacioretty line is less well defended.

Those are not 3 good offensive lines...
Hudon is not a top 6 winger. Danault would be the worst 1C in the league. He is a 3C who you have at 1C and call it a good off. line. That is literally the worst 1st line in the league.
The 2nd line could be OK except for the fact Drouin is miserable at C and needs to play on the wing. Also Lehkonen wasn't good last year and may not be a top 6 player either at this stage.
The 3rd line is actually exciting.
3/6 of the top 6 in those lines are not top 6 players...