Dreger: Matt Duchene Mega-thread:Habs, NSH, NYI, OTT inquired - Part III

[Konk]

Again the price for Duchene, according to Bob McKenzie, is:



So...Pulock+Barzal+1st+Sorokin is probably close to the asking price.

That's just fantasy land that Avs fans are living in right there -- three blue chip prospects, one a top 10 prospect and one a top 2 goalie prospect, plus a first round pick?

 

[GetThePuckOuttaHere*]

I promise this is Duchene-related...

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

Logic: Carolina clearly needs help in goal, and with Alex Nedeljkovic struggling in the AHL, that's likely years away. Carolina has the defensive and offensive depth and prospects that they can seriously challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next year. They could chase Bishop in the summer, but he may not want to go (leaving them in a hole) and will likely cost more than Fleury, who would be an above-average stop gap while Carolina climbs the bubble. Having a poor goaltender, and therefore necessitating conservative play, will hurt the development of Carolina's young forwards, and I don't think Ward is the answer. Pittsburgh makes space for...

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Logic: Pens would have the cap space with Kunitz and Fleury gone. The Pens second could be conditionally upgraded to their first if necessary to make deal go through/Colorado to retain. Colorado gains picks, a once-hyped defense man who could benefit from change of scenery and a chance to actually play in a significant role in the NHL, a top-six, young, cap-friendly winger for the future who is injured to help them tank, a stop-gap option in Kunitz, and a high-quality goalie prospect. The Pens, meanwhile get this for the playoffs...

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr
Kuhnhackl

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey

Murray-Lack

...and an intimidating top-9 for next year of:

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-*FA*-Sprong

Thoughts?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Difference is that I want Duchene on my hockey team. Not at a ridiculous "give me every top asset in your organization I want all of them" price but at a fair price that helps the depth of the Avs while giving the Isles a strong #2 center to play behind Tavares.

I'm not consistently dismissing your team's assets and saying they don't meet my standards, because if a deal does get worked out I'd look quite foolish for not getting the "skittles and rainbows gut your team" return I was anticipating. It's one thing to aim high, it's another thing to aim high and then crap on anything and everything below it.

But hey, Oilers fans seemed to have their opinions on Griffin Reinhart change real quick before and after he was traded to them. Last week I saw an Oiler fan say they still believe Reinhart can develop into a top #3 in the NHL.

We don't want depth for Duchene

We want a defenseman with top pairing potential and you guys don't have one hence why the Islanders would have to overpay. How many times does this have to be pointed out to you??

 

[disles1]

Go home...

LOL ok... IMO

Duchene = Barzal, Nelson, 1st , Top G prospect
Landy = Pulock, MDC, 1st, Hickey ( for cap purposes)

 

[The Abusement Park]

I promise this is Duchene-related...

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

Logic: Carolina clearly needs help in goal, and with Alex Nedeljkovic struggling in the AHL, that's likely years away. Carolina has the defensive and offensive depth and prospects that they can seriously challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next year. They could chase Bishop in the summer, but he may not want to go (leaving them in a hole) and will likely cost more than Fleury, who would be an above-average stop gap while Carolina climbs the bubble. Having a poor goaltender, and therefore necessitating conservative play, will hurt the development of Carolina's young forwards, and I don't think Ward is the answer. Pittsburgh makes space for...

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Logic: Pens would have the cap space with Kunitz and Fleury gone. The Pens second could be conditionally upgraded to their first if necessary to make deal go through/Colorado to retain. Colorado gains picks, a once-hyped defense man who could benefit from change of scenery and a chance to actually play in a significant role in the NHL, a top-six, young, cap-friendly winger for the future who is injured to help them tank, a stop-gap option in Kunitz, and a high-quality goalie prospect. The Pens, meanwhile get this for the playoffs...

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr
Kuhnhackl

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey

Murray-Lack

...and an intimidating top-9 for next year of:

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-*FA*-Sprong

Thoughts?

God no.

 

[Ice Crusher]

I promise this is Duchene-related...

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

Logic: Carolina clearly needs help in goal, and with Alex Nedeljkovic struggling in the AHL, that's likely years away. Carolina has the defensive and offensive depth and prospects that they can seriously challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next year. They could chase Bishop in the summer, but he may not want to go (leaving them in a hole) and will likely cost more than Fleury, who would be an above-average stop gap while Carolina climbs the bubble. Having a poor goaltender, and therefore necessitating conservative play, will hurt the development of Carolina's young forwards, and I don't think Ward is the answer. Pittsburgh makes space for...

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Logic: Pens would have the cap space with Kunitz and Fleury gone. The Pens second could be conditionally upgraded to their first if necessary to make deal go through/Colorado to retain. Colorado gains picks, a once-hyped defense man who could benefit from change of scenery and a chance to actually play in a significant role in the NHL, a top-six, young, cap-friendly winger for the future who is injured to help them tank, a stop-gap option in Kunitz, and a high-quality goalie prospect. The Pens, meanwhile get this for the playoffs...

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr
Kuhnhackl

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey

Murray-Lack

...and an intimidating top-9 for next year of:

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-*FA*-Sprong

Thoughts?

Nice for the effort. But offer is way off. Quantity instead of quality...

 

[Foppberg]

Pulock + Barzal + 1st maybe, but not Sorokin.

Even then I dunno if I like that deal too much. I just don't like what the Islanders have to offer. I'd rather just deal him 1 for 1 for a Trouba type of defender. Too bad that ships gone.

 

[CodeE]

Yeah, some Isles fans making us look bad here.

Like I said before, Isles untouchables are Tavares, Leddy and Barzal. If colorado won't take a combo of the rest, then there is no match.

I'd offer Hamonic/Pulock, MDC/Ho-Sang and a 1st as the offer.

Barzal isn't untouchable according to Avs fans, if we don't start with him and add 2-3 additional high-value assets as well they've decided we're not even allowed to propose our lowball offers.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I promise this is Duchene-related...

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

Logic: Carolina clearly needs help in goal, and with Alex Nedeljkovic struggling in the AHL, that's likely years away. Carolina has the defensive and offensive depth and prospects that they can seriously challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next year. They could chase Bishop in the summer, but he may not want to go (leaving them in a hole) and will likely cost more than Fleury, who would be an above-average stop gap while Carolina climbs the bubble. Having a poor goaltender, and therefore necessitating conservative play, will hurt the development of Carolina's young forwards, and I don't think Ward is the answer. Pittsburgh makes space for...

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Logic: Pens would have the cap space with Kunitz and Fleury gone. The Pens second could be conditionally upgraded to their first if necessary to make deal go through/Colorado to retain. Colorado gains picks, a once-hyped defense man who could benefit from change of scenery and a chance to actually play in a significant role in the NHL, a top-six, young, cap-friendly winger for the future who is injured to help them tank, a stop-gap option in Kunitz, and a high-quality goalie prospect. The Pens, meanwhile get this for the playoffs...

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr
Kuhnhackl

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey

Murray-Lack

...and an intimidating top-9 for next year of:

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-*FA*-Sprong

Thoughts?

Wow, you're so kind! A pair of 2nds, a change of scenery player, a cap dump and a backup goalie for Duchene? Are you sure you don't want us to throw in 50% retention? Would you want Landeskog in there as well?

 

[islesfan3913]

Why do people keep repeating that Hamonic isn't a top pairing defenseman when he is, even if he's a lower end guy? He may not play on the left side, but he's most certainly a top pairing defenseman.

 

[falconski]

Wow, you're so kind! A pair of 2nds, a change of scenery player, a cap dump and a backup goalie for Duchene? Are you sure you don't want us to throw in 50% retention? Would you want Landeskog in there as well?

Sadly the trade for fleury there was worse than the trade for duchene

 

[The Abusement Park]

Why do people keep repeating that Hamonic isn't a top pairing defenseman when he is, even if he's a lower end guy? He may not play on the left side, but he's most certainly a top pairing defenseman.

Because were resetting the core age and Hamonic doesn't fit that age. We also have an abundance of RD and have an extreme need for LD. You guys just really don't have much of what we need.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Why do people keep repeating that Hamonic isn't a top pairing defenseman when he is, even if he's a lower end guy? He may not play on the left side, but he's most certainly a top pairing defenseman.

On the Avs he'd play on the second pairing. He'd make a great partner for Zadorov next season IMO. A lot of Avs fans want to go for the big flashy home run prospect right now though.

 

[DriftEasy]

Why do people keep repeating that Hamonic isn't a top pairing defenseman when he is, even if he's a lower end guy? He may not play on the left side, but he's most certainly a top pairing defenseman.

Consensus from Avs fans seems to be that he's an elite #3 and too old for what they want.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Barzal isn't untouchable according to Avs fans, if we don't start with him and add 2-3 additional high-value assets as well they've decided we're not even allowed to propose our lowball offers.

Actually, it's because you don't seem to understand your team doesn't have the asset to make it done...

Let me refresh your mind a bit. When we dealt ROR, we got Zadorov (main piece) with other attracting pieces. ROR was a year from UFA.

 

[Chuck Downie]

There's no Gabriel Landeskog megathread? Why not?

 

[Mighty Makar]

This Avs' fan wouldn't mind Hamonic.

 

[periferal]

Yeah, some Isles fans making us look bad here.

Like I said before, Isles untouchables are Tavares, Leddy and Barzal. If colorado won't take a combo of the rest, then there is no match.

I'd offer Hamonic/Pulock, MDC/Ho-Sang and a 1st as the offer.

I agree with this totally. Let's just agree to shake hands and walk away at some point.

 

[Ice Crusher]

On the Avs he'd play on the second pairing. He'd make a great partner for Zadorov next season IMO. A lot of Avs fans want to go for the big flashy home run prospect right now though.

Not that I don't like him. Just that he's too old for what the Avs are looking for. Actually, if Hamonic would be 24-25 max I would want him.

 

[CodeE]

We don't want depth for Duchene

We want a defenseman with top pairing potential and you guys don't have one hence why the Islanders would have to overpay. How many times does this have to be pointed out to you??

You're under the assumption that several other teams are eager and desperate to pay a defenseman with top pairing potential for Duchene, so the Islanders need to catch up to these mystery offers or else fall out of the race entirely.

What if no other team in the NHL is coming close to Sakic's asking price? The Islanders are the only team in the ballpark of an acceptable return, which is why there's so much chatter about the Isles/Avs hammering out a deal? What if those top pairing potential players that you assume are available simply aren't?

"We'll just keep Duchene then" - you have that option, totally. But I'm not seeing rumors of top pairing potential defenseman being offering as the start of a Duchene package, are you?

 

[Extra Texture]

I promise this is Duchene-related...

I don't know if this is realistic, or if it fits cap-wise, but...

Fleury to Carolina for Lack, 2017 2nd, some prospect.

Logic: Carolina clearly needs help in goal, and with Alex Nedeljkovic struggling in the AHL, that's likely years away. Carolina has the defensive and offensive depth and prospects that they can seriously challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next year. They could chase Bishop in the summer, but he may not want to go (leaving them in a hole) and will likely cost more than Fleury, who would be an above-average stop gap while Carolina climbs the bubble. Having a poor goaltender, and therefore necessitating conservative play, will hurt the development of Carolina's young forwards, and I don't think Ward is the answer. Pittsburgh makes space for...

Carolina 2017 2nd, Pittsburgh 2017 2nd, Derrick Pouliot, Conor Sheary, Chris Kunitz, and one of Jarry or Gustavsson to Colorado for Duchene.

Logic: Pens would have the cap space with Kunitz and Fleury gone. The Pens second could be conditionally upgraded to their first if necessary to make deal go through/Colorado to retain. Colorado gains picks, a once-hyped defense man who could benefit from change of scenery and a chance to actually play in a significant role in the NHL, a top-six, young, cap-friendly winger for the future who is injured to help them tank, a stop-gap option in Kunitz, and a high-quality goalie prospect. The Pens, meanwhile get this for the playoffs...

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr
Kuhnhackl

Letang-Dumoulin
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Schultz
Hainsey

Murray-Lack

...and an intimidating top-9 for next year of:

Duchene-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-*FA*-Sprong

Thoughts?

That is decidedly unrealistic.

Colorado is clearly not just going to give MD away for whatever scraps Rutherford can give him. Look at this proposal, and then look at the offers being bandied about from Islander fans. Its not even close to those.

 

[Pacman33]

Why do people keep repeating that Hamonic isn't a top pairing defenseman when he is, even if he's a lower end guy? He may not play on the left side, but he's most certainly a top pairing defenseman.

Hes probably more a good #3. But problem with him is that hes older than were looking for. The main pieces we are definately rebuilding with all will be 22 and under next year. Also not that i agree with arguement but there are some isles posters that dont wanna pay because he will be your #2 center so that goes both ways. Hamonic wont play above ej so he would be second pairing for us

 

[The Abusement Park]

On the Avs he'd play on the second pairing. He'd make a great partner for Zadorov next season IMO. A lot of Avs fans want to go for the big flashy home run prospect right now though.

I'd rather just get a LD, were fine on RD for now. We need more than just Zadorov there if they aren't gonna call up Bigras for whatever reason.

 

[Liver King]

Adrian Dater‏Verified account @adater 2h2 hours ago
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Hearing that once-heavy Avs-Isles trade talks for Duchene have cooled. Sakic may have to wait til draft

 

[tucker3434]

You're under the assumption that several other teams are eager and desperate to pay a defenseman with top pairing potential for Duchene, so the Islanders need to catch up to these mystery offers or else fall out of the race entirely.

What if no other team in the NHL is coming close to Sakic's asking price? The Islanders are the only team in the ballpark of an acceptable return, which is why there's so much chatter about the Isles/Avs hammering out a deal? What if those top pairing potential players that you assume are available simply aren't?

"We'll just keep Duchene then" - you have that option, totally. But I'm not seeing rumors of top pairing potential defenseman being offering as the start of a Duchene package, are you?

Because maybe a team like CBJ is willing to give a guy like Murray+. That at least fits the need even if Murray isn't as good as Hamonic.