Matt Carle or Jack Johnson

[OrrNumber4]

Carle should score more, Johnson will hit people much harder. Should be close. Carle was among the nations leaders in points playing on the blue line. Carle is also much more reliable. JJ gets wild at times. He is young and most likely will be corrected. But it is not a super clear choice to the point where you are dumb for not choosing JJ. I would take JJ as if he pans out all the way. He will dominate at both ends of the ice. Carle will, if he pans out, be solid at both ends but i do not see dominating both ends.

I agree completely, Johnson is a player of great character. Certainly, however, both have a chance at never reaching their potentials. I also agree that Johnson's size and relative agressiveness give him an advantage over Carle; Johnson has a bit of a mean streak and the size to back it up. If he could "fine-tune" his recklessness, watch out!

 

[OrrNumber4]

This is not even deserving of a post........Carle are you serious? there are 30 other dmen who are closer to jack johnson.

List them

 

[Transported Upstater]

I agree completely, Johnson is a player of great character. Certainly, however, both have a chance at never reaching their potentials. I also agree that Johnson's size and relative agressiveness give him an advantage over Carle; Johnson has a bit of a mean streak and the size to back it up. If he could "fine-tune" his recklessness, watch out!

Which is why I'm glad Johnson didn't leave Michigan. He has a complete game, but he shouldn't be in the NHL next year.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Which is why I'm glad Johnson didn't leave Michigan. He has a complete game, but he shouldn't be in the NHL next year.

Once again, I agree completely. I think since he is a blue-chip prospect, some expect him to make the jump smoothly and quickly, as if he were a forward. Even if he is a blue-chip prospect, he is a young defenseman who needs time to mature.

Anyone know how dedicated Johnson is to his education?

 

[Transported Upstater]

Once again, I agree completely. I think since he is a blue-chip prospect, some expect him to make the jump smoothly and quickly, as if he were a forward. Even if he is a blue-chip prospect, he is a young defenseman who needs time to mature.

Anyone know how dedicated Johnson is to his education?

Something tells me the NTDP mores about hockey development than scholastic development...

 

[clay]

How is this even a thread? Johnson is about 10 times better than Carle.

 

[captaincanadian]

Carle is a good prospect, but he doesn't even come close to Johnson.

 

[OrrNumber4]

How is this even a thread? Johnson is about 10 times better than Carle.

Have you ever watched them play? The difference isn't that big....sheesh

 

[Pete Rock]

List them

Well for starters there's Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer. . .

Oh, you meant prospects!

Well, in that case 30's pushing it. But I would consider Weber, Staal, Coburn, and Lee as closer to Johnson as far as depth chart rankings go but not much else. But I like the big kids.

 

[adudani]

Jack Johnson. In a heartbeat.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Well for starters there's Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer. . .

Oh, you meant prospects!

Well, in that case 30's pushing it. But I would consider Weber, Staal, Coburn, and Lee as closer to Johnson as far as depth chart rankings go but not much else. But I like the big kids.

Technically, Pronger, Lidstrom, would be furthur away from Johnson (they would be so much better than him).

Of the top of my head, I would consider Phaneuf, Suter, Staal, and maaaybe Ladislav Smid closer (I'd consider guys like Kronwall or Boumeester, but they are too old or too experienced now)

 

[NashisCash]

Well for starters there's Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer. . .

Oh, you meant prospects!

Well, in that case 30's pushing it. But I would consider Weber, Staal, Coburn, and Lee as closer to Johnson as far as depth chart rankings go but not much else. But I like the big kids.

Staal and Weber are arguable, but no way Coburn and Lee are closer to Johnson than Carle. There are not many dmen who score well over a point per game in their second year of college. Carle has more offensive potential than anyone you listed, and is very adequate defensively. Johnson is good but I don't get the love fest, IMO Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Phaneuf and E.Johnson will all be better.

 

[Vagrant]

Luc Bourdon isn't getting much love, I think he's a far better prospect than Carle.

 

[Vagrant]

Staal and Weber are arguable, but no way Coburn and Lee are closer to Johnson than Carle. There are not many dmen who score well over a point per game in their second year of college. Carle has more offensive potential than anyone you listed, and is very adequate defensively. Johnson is good but I don't get the love fest, IMO Bouwmeester, Pitkanen, Phaneuf and E.Johnson will all be better.

The love fest about Jack Johnson is that he's the most complete defensive prospect at age 18 since Dion Phaneuf, and some would argue that Johnson is better right now at 19 than was Phaneuf at 19. I'd be inclined to agree, as i've seen a pretty large amount of them both. A lot of watching Phaneuf had more to do with Cam Ward being in net behind him, but I still was able to appreciate how well he played the game at such a young age. As much as I was impressed with Phaneuf at that age, I think Johnson looks a little better right now. I'm far more impressed with Jack's offensive game than I was with Phaneuf's. That isn't to say that Jack will post numbers as well as Dion in his rookie season, but not many do.

People are overrating the other Johnson because he's a monster on skates, but that doesn't always translate. There is a mountain of players bigger that have flamed out. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, but he's not on Jack's level right now.

 

[NashisCash]

The love fest about Jack Johnson is that he's the most complete defensive prospect at age 18 since Dion Phaneuf, and some would argue that Johnson is better right now at 19 than was Phaneuf at 19. I'd be inclined to agree, as i've seen a pretty large amount of them both. A lot of watching Phaneuf had more to do with Cam Ward being in net behind him, but I still was able to appreciate how well he played the game at such a young age. As much as I was impressed with Phaneuf at that age, I think Johnson looks a little better right now. I'm far more impressed with Jack's offensive game than I was with Phaneuf's. That isn't to say that Jack will post numbers as well as Dion in his rookie season, but not many do.

People are overrating the other Johnson because he's a monster on skates, but that doesn't always translate. There is a mountain of players bigger that have flamed out. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust, but he's not on Jack's level right now.

He certainly was on Jack's level at the WJC, where he outshone him, despite being a year younger. Johnson's WJC this year was not even close to Phaneuf's WJC of two years ago. I know he is a Canes prospect and you seem to have a man crush on him, but no way in hell is Johnson as good at 19 as Phaneuf was at 19. I don't think saying Johnson is the most complete defenseman since Dion Phaneuf is such a compliment...Johnson was drafted only two years after Dion! I think he will be a good defenseman, but I wasn't overly impressed with his offensive skills at the WJC. I think you seriously underrate how good Phaneuf was last year, both in junior and at the World Juniors.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Luc Bourdon isn't getting much love, I think he's a far better prospect than Carle.

Why would you say that. I like Bourdon, but Carle is in the tier above him, IMO

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Why would you say that. I like Bourdon, but Carle is in the tier above him, IMO

Based on what...

 

[Vagrant]

He certainly was on Jack's level at the WJC, where he outshone him, despite being a year younger. Johnson's WJC this year was not even close to Phaneuf's WJC of two years ago. I know he is a Canes prospect and you seem to have a man crush on him, but no way in hell is Johnson as good at 19 as Phaneuf was at 19. I don't think saying Johnson is the most complete defenseman since Dion Phaneuf is such a compliment...Johnson was drafted only two years after Dion! I think he will be a good defenseman, but I wasn't overly impressed with his offensive skills at the WJC. I think you seriously underrate how good Phaneuf was last year, both in junior and at the World Juniors.

That's why one tournament doesn't a career make. I thought Jack didn't play as well as he could have. EJ's one great tournament has launched his stock into orbit, and we've seen how that has worked in the past. People often make too much of the WJC's in terms of judging a prospect. It's too small of a sample size to really get a grasp on how well a prospect is developing. Igor Knyazev won the best defenseman award at the WJC's as well as his team won a gold medal, and then his stock went through the roof. He was drafted by Carolina, came to North America, and proceeded to flame out. He plays in Russia now and last I heard he was property of Phoenix. One tournament.

I didn't intend for the "most complete defenseman since Dion Phaneuf" to be that huge of a compliment, it's not like I said Scott Stevens or anything. Both are fantastic young defensemen, and i'm saying that they're both the best to have come out in the past three years. A lot of people would agree with that sentiment.

I'll be the first to call a Hurricanes prospect bad if that's what he is. There are more than a handful right now that I don't even consider realistic shots to make the show. I try to be as objective about our guys as I can, but this isn't just me pumping up a prospect that is property of my favorite team. Jack Johnson is the real deal. He's not the second coming of Orr like many claimed, but he's on par at least with Dion Phaneuf. As i've said, I watched them both at pretty good lengths and i'm still making this assertation. Johnson's total game this year is quite better than Phaneuf of 2 years ago in Red Deer. It remains to be seen if Johnson will develop on par with how Phaneuf developed the next season at Red Deer, but it's looking pretty good.

 

[Vagrant]

Why would you say that. I like Bourdon, but Carle is in the tier above him, IMO

I didn't say better player right now, but I did say better prospect. I think Luc Bourdon has arguably the best raw skill package of any defenseman out there right now. He needs to work on the mental aspects of the game before he's NHL ready, but i'd challenge you to find a defenseman that can shoot the puck as hard, lay the big hit, and pass the puck as crisp as Luc Bourdon.

 

[OrrNumber4]

That's why one tournament doesn't a career make. I thought Jack didn't play as well as he could have. EJ's one great tournament has launched his stock into orbit, and we've seen how that has worked in the past. People often make too much of the WJC's in terms of judging a prospect. It's too small of a sample size to really get a grasp on how well a prospect is developing. Igor Knyazev won the best defenseman award at the WJC's as well as his team won a gold medal, and then his stock went through the roof. He was drafted by Carolina, came to North America, and proceeded to flame out. He plays in Russia now and last I heard he was property of Phoenix. One tournament.

I'll be the first to call a Hurricanes prospect bad if that's what he is. There are more than a handful right now that I don't even consider realistic shots to make the show. I try to be as objective about our guys as I can, but this isn't just me pumping up a prospect that is property of my favorite team. Jack Johnson is the real deal. He's not the second coming of Orr like many claimed, but he's on par at least with Dion Phaneuf. As i've said, I watched them both at pretty good lengths and i'm still making this assertation. Johnson's total game this year is quite better than Phaneuf of 2 years ago in Red Deer. It remains to be seen if Johnson will develop on par with how Phaneuf developed the next season at Red Deer, but it's looking pretty good.

Excellent post. One tournament does not a player make. It is something to see how a prospect's stock can vary with their performance in that one tournament.

Also agreed that Johnson = Phaneuf. Of course, I don't know if Johnson will make the jump to the NHL as smoothly...

 

[bleedgreen]

ive watched carles career pretty closely here at denver, and i dont think he is a great defenseman yet at all. people say jj runs around in his own end, well carle does plenty of that too. i think carle is a graceful skater with great offensive ability, but he has a long way to go in his own end and he doesnt really have jj's physical attributes. carle may end up a better point producer, but jj wins this one pretty easily until he shows he doesnt live up to his hype.

i read a previous post about carles better international experience....i hpoe that wasnt a reference to the usa's victory a few years ago that carle played on. carle was awful in the games i saw. he got absolutlely schooled in the gold medal game - where i believe he got juked so bad he fell on his wallet. i was really worried about him as a prospect after that wjc, jj way outplayed him during his experience this year. if thats carles only international stint of consequence whoever said that was way off.

 

[McDonald19]

Who the ****'s Matt Carle?

Just kidding, Johnson by a huge margin. I'm still a little puzzled that Burke selected Ryan over JJ, I think it will make him a laughing stock at one point - although Ryan's pretty good.

It's been stated a million times but here it is again:

Burke did not scout the 2005 draft class, he had just been hired by Anaheim. Burke allowed the Ducks scouting staff to make the selection. They told him Ryan was the kid with the most unique upside (which still could be true) and Burke went with it.

So if you want to get on the Ducks scouting staff's case that's fine, but Burke shouldn't be a laughing stock for this selection.

Ryan is still on track to be a top line powerforward which is a difficult prospect to find.

 

[Vagrant]

It's been stated a million times but here it is again:

Burke did not scout the 2005 draft class, he had just been hired by Anaheim. Burke allowed the Ducks scouting staff to make the selection. They told him Ryan was the kid with the most unique upside (which still could be true) and Burke went with it.

So if you want to get on the Ducks scouting staff's case that's fine, but Burke shouldn't be a laughing stock for this selection.

Ryan is still on track to be a top line powerforward which is a difficult prospect to find.

I honestly don't see how Johnson has distinguished himself away from Ryan yet. I don't get how people say that. Both are top tier prospects right now and should be respected as such.

Anaheim drafted BPA, Carolina did as well. You can't fault either team for their choice. Ryan is going to be a stud.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Based on what...

At least when I have seen him, Bourdon lacks the ability to take over a game. He doesn't have that "wow" factor, nothing in him that makes him seem really unique. He is not one-dimensional, which is good, but except for a good pass, nothing really stood out. On the other hand, Carle has superb hockey sense, and has excellent creativity which gives him that "wow" factor. When he is out there on the ice you just feel he is going to make a big play.

 

[Letang fan 58]

List them

Off the top of my head Smid, Suter, Weber, Phaneuf, Erik Johnson, Staal, Bourdon, Mezsaros, Whitney, Barker, Parent, Babchuck, Kronwall, Green, Seabrook.

well theres 15 to start.......I would argue that every one of them are closer as a prospect in terms of top end talent to Jack Johnson then Carle is.