Player Discussion Marner Talk

[HamiltonNHL]

Have there been any reports about which teams are preferred destinations for Marner?

Muskoka.

 

[13pacheco31]

Have there been any reports about which teams are preferred destinations for Marner?

Only thing being reported is that a handful of teams have asked about marner

 

[Tarmore]

You risk him walking for nothing or having to overpay him. Cut bait as soon as possible. I think the writing is on the wall at this point.

You are not getting much in a trade wither at this point and there is the probability that he resigns and you get to keep the 100ish point player.

If not you have as high a chance of trading him near the deadline with retention probably with higher return than you would get now.

 

[MCR74]

he's COULD play the victim card.
"i had to hire security to deal with fan vitriol"

Surely he needs to see the situation: it's untenable for fans and himself.

Marner has sold alot of jerseys but change is needed. The Dubas dream is dead. The Big4 will never have playoff success ... the mix doesnt work.

It should also be clear: Tre picked Nylander. Over Mitch.

We can't have two right wingers making 12+

It should also be clear: Tre picked Nylander. Over Mitch.

To cover for Mitch's huge salary, the Leafs skimp on areas like D and G. The idea is Mitch will generate so much offence that we will outscore our problems. Well .... we couldnt score. Like previous years.

Ultimately a team of 4 overpaid players, leaves little to make a team. Would you want to be on a sales team where one player makes 13 times more than you ? There is no way Marner is 13 times as important as Knies. The overpaid 4 leave little money around for others to make a living.

The Leafs aren't a team. They are The Big 4 + scraps.

Terrible way to make "a team".

For Marner to stay he needs to take a significant pay cut. If not, he needs to be traded. Do yourself a favor Mitch: waive the NMC. It's not worth the misery you'll endure. If you wait out the contract, you'll endure a year of "driving your own line". And people will see you for your skillset: a great passer, a great teammate, an inventive guy during the regular season, a good PKer (until this year). Missing: NHL shot, cannot drive a line, performs poorly under pressure, easily intimidated in the playoffs, a proven track record of underperforming in PLAYOFF hockey. CONCLUSION: A significant COMPLIMENTARY piece. Max: 9.5AAV.

It should also be clear: Tre picked Nylander. Over Mitch.

Marner will regret waiting out his contract. It's clear he wont be able to take it. He's just going to drive down his value by looking like a crap show out there. During pressure in the playoffs the guy can't handle the puck. Expect the same during the regular season next year. He also needs to understand that the team controls the media. If the team decides to pressure him via the media: "They can and they will".

I wish Dubas had another dream of adding him in Pittsburgh.

 

[ToneDog]

You are not getting much in a trade wither at this point and there is the probability that he resigns and you get to keep the 100ish point player.

If not you have as high a chance of trading him near the deadline with retention probably with higher return than you would get now.

Agreed we probably do not a great return but if you are not willing to pay him 12m, why keep him? We are not winning a cup with these 4 taking more than 50% if the cap next year.

 

[MCR74]

Agreed we probably do not a great return but if you are not willing to pay him 12m, why keep him? We are not winning a cup with these 4 taking more than 50% if the cap next year.

The minute he's gone, HF will do a complete about face, and the Leafs will have given up on an amazing player. You know the drill.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Agreed we probably do not a great return but if you are not willing to pay him 12m, why keep him? We are not winning a cup with these 4 taking more than 50% if the cap next year.

One thing I don’t understand about the narrative around Marner is the same people saying “you can’t win with him, he’s terrible in the playoffs, he’s got a shit attitude ect” are also saying he’s gonna cost 12m, which one is it? If those things are true obviously no one would pay him anywhere close to that so why would we have to pay him 12m?

 

[Tarmore]

Agreed we probably do not a great return but if you are not willing to pay him 12m, why keep him? We are not winning a cup with these 4 taking more than 50% if the cap next year.

We tried it multiple times with Keefe, and as Keefe said they didn't get it done. Who knows what we get with a new skipper, as far as their performances?

IMO we should at a minimum hire a new coach and get their input before we go and trade a major part of the team away. The new coach will have an opinion on Mitch and it will range somewhere between Love and Hate, Leafs will IMO have to act accordingly.

Paying him 11M now? Hard land more than Willy as long as things continue like last season for those two. Work on the contract now and know where you will ultimately land. Also a key ingredient on keep or trade.

I think there is a valid argument for both.

One thing I don’t understand about the narrative around Marner is the same people saying “you can’t win with him, he’s terrible in the playoffs, he’s got a shit attitude ect” are also saying he’s gonna cost 12m, which one is it? If those things are true obviously no one would pay him anywhere close to that so why would we have to pay him 12m?

x10 if he is a top 10 scorer with his new team. Leaf fans would never hear the end of it.

 

[Tarmore]

One thing I don’t understand about the narrative around Marner is the same people saying “you can’t win with him, he’s terrible in the playoffs, he’s got a shit attitude ect” are also saying he’s gonna cost 12m, which one is it? If those things are true obviously no one would pay him anywhere close to that so why would we have to pay him 12m?

You have IMO pointed out the weakness in the argument well.

Teams pay for production, Marner produces points, not as expensive as goals (see our 70 goal contract). Like I said in another post if Mitch and Willy have similar seasons to last, this season, it would be hard to may mitch more that Willy at that point.

 

[ToneDog]

One thing I don’t understand about the narrative around Marner is the same people saying “you can’t win with him, he’s terrible in the playoffs, he’s got a shit attitude ect” are also saying he’s gonna cost 12m, which one is it? If those things are true obviously no one would pay him anywhere close to that so why would we have to pay him 12m?

He's gonna ask for 12. Leafs paid Willy 11.5m. They would easily pay Marner more if it made sense. With Tavres here and the core clearly not working, he is the odd man out.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Marner THINKS he's worth 12 million when in reality given his playoff performance he's lucky if he's worth 5.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner THINKS he's worth 12 million when in reality given his playoff performance he's lucky if he's worth 5.

If one ignores playoffs he is probably worth a similar cap hit as Nylander. That won't work for us so he needs to be moved.

Unfortunately for mitch nobody overpays like the Leafs. He might be in for a rude awakening similar to Johnny hockey.

 

[IPS]

Doesn't a guy like Mackinnon make $12.6? I get it that the cap is going up, but aren't they gonna look at other guys around the league making north of $12M an wonder where the f*** Marner is coming from demanding that?

It's literally only Toronto he gets to use the Matthews comparable to get insanely overpaid. He can't do this on other teams around the league. They're gonna tell him he's gonna be paid like other small scoring wingers.

 

[13pacheco31]

Marner THINKS he's worth 12 million when in reality given his playoff performance he's lucky if he's worth 5.

Regardless of his playoff performance, he's worth closer to 12 than he is 5. Wherever he ends up, his next contract is going to be at least 11

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Regardless of his playoff performance, he's worth closer to 12 than he is 5. Wherever he ends up, his next contract is going to be at least 11

Sorry, I don't think too many NHL GMs are this stupid. But there might be 1...

 

[Ports]

Most important, too much money.

They can definitely use that money elsewhere to build a better balanced, deeper team.

 

[13pacheco31]

Sorry, I don't think too many NHL GMs are this stupid. But there might be 1...

If you think that nhl GM's don't shoot themselves in the foot on a yearly basis or that no gm I the league will offer him more than 5m, you must be out to lunch

 

[MCR74]

Doesn't a guy like Mackinnon make $12.6? I get it that the cap is going up, but aren't they gonna look at other guys around the league making north of $12M an wonder where the f*** Marner is coming from demanding that?

It's literally only Toronto he gets to use the Matthews comparable to get insanely overpaid. He can't do this on other teams around the league. They're gonna tell him he's gonna be paid like other small scoring wingers.

This.

Say he walks at the end of his deal, Marner might be in for a surprise. Unless your initials are KD, I doubt many GMs will bend over for his ridiculous demands.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If you think that nhl GM's don't shoot themselves in the foot on a yearly basis or that no gm I the league will offer him more than 5m, you must be out to lunch

Of course he'll get more than 5 million and of course there are dumb GMs (Like for example Dubas who started this overpayment mess) but I will stand by the statement that no NHL GM will pay Marner 12 million and in fact he'll be taking a pay cut down to his comparables in any market but Toronto.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Francis246 if you're not a registered media troll on this forum; you sure as hell sound like one. What is wrong with his press conference. IMO, if he says what he is actually feeling, the mask that is MLSE will be exposed and all can then see the matrix is alive and well. This team has many very good pieces. Too bad they have no system in place that will bring them success. Despite a lack of proper development they almost beat Boston(who has an excellent system)in the first round. IMO book makers now run the NHL. They dictate who sits and who plays. Willy is absent 3 games. Matthews 2 games when Willy returns. Woll the rest of the series after shutting out the Bruins for 59:59. No media question directed at the players about their absence. And we all just accep it as though nothing is wrong. Wake up people..

...

Wow. Paul, please advise your son that he will genuinely be happier somewhere else, and since Mitchy loves that money, he might earn some more elsewhere.

 

[Confucius]

You risk him walking for nothing or having to overpay him. Cut bait as soon as possible. I think the writing is on the wall at this point.

Well that risk was taken when he got the NMC. All in Marner’s hands now, if I were him I’d stay for one last hurrah then take my chances as a UFA. No big risk anymore anyway, what’s he earned 60 plus million already.

 

[13pacheco31]

Of course he'll get more than 5 million and of course there are dumb GMs (Like for example Dubas who started this overpayment mess) but I will stand by the statement that no NHL GM will pay Marner 12 million and in fact he'll be taking a pay cut down to his comparables in any market but Toronto.

Perhaps, but his closest comparables are just shy of 10m, a season. So like I said, closer to 12 than 5.

 

[DueDiligence]

The minute he's gone, HF will do a complete about face, and the Leafs will have given up on an amazing player. You know the drill.

Marner is an amazing regular season player. Very average in the playoffs. If a team wants to sell tickets/get into the playoffs he's a great addition. If you want to win a cup you pass on him.

 

[MCR74]

Marner is an amazing regular season player. Very average in the playoffs. If a team wants to sell tickets/get into the playoffs he's a great addition. If you want to win a cup you pass on him.

Anyone signing Marner to another large deal better be aware that he's a zero come playoff time. Regardless, if he gets to FA, some clueless GM will bite eventually.

 

[William Johnson]

IIRC the Marner camp wanted 8x8 the year before and Dubas said no.

There was no evidence of an offer sheet but it was talked about. Should have taken 5 first rounders and laughed.

Thanks for the reply. And, apologies if I'm dwelling on the past too much but I'm still quite unclear on this issue. If it's true that Ferris actually pitched 8x8 to Dubas and was turned down, then I have slightly less disdain for Marner and even more for Dubas! If Marner had got 8x8 I doubt he'd currently be public enemy number one on his way to being run out of town.

None of this really matters now, I suppose, as it's been 10.893 for years of playoff mediocrity from Marner. Happy to be corrected on this, but I had a quick look and think this is true: in the last 16 Leafs victories in the playoffs (back to Columbus), Marner has points on 5 game-winning goals. Two secondary assists, two primary assists (on Matthews goals) and one game-winning goal. The game-winner was in Game 4 against Florida, down 3-0 at that point. Now I realise that if you win 5-1, the game-winner is the second goal, but it's still a telling stat, I think. To be fair, he did a bit better in his first three years in terms of contributing -- before his ludicrous contract.

He seems like the opposite of clutch to me and I'll be glad to see the back of him if it happens.