Marincin-Zaitsev should be our bottom pair

[MR4]

A DFD has been on many Leafs fans' wish lists, and we have one in Marincin, the DFD version of Gardiner. Puts up good Corsi rel and GF% rel, and really all that matters is whether you score more than the other team, not whether you look pretty doing it, right?

Marincin-Zaitsev has had very limited minutes as a pair in the past but has shown to be an awesome pair, and I've come around enough to think this would be a beastly bottom pair. Why? Zaitsev was initially an offense focused D when he was brought in showing a higher level of play in his first season than what he's become playing with a more offense focused, more risky D partner in Gardiner that has forced Zaitsev to become something he's not. Zaitsev playing on the bottom pair would be a great spot for him to regain his confidence as an OFD, and would likely start to show signs he can significantly drive play.

So why is Marincin a good fit for Zaitsev's left? Well, that's because one of Zaitsev's worst skills is denying zone entries, when Marincin is elite at it. Just take a look at this article if you disagree: Chad Bradford, Martin Marincin, and the Imperfection of the Human Mind It brings up a good criticism of our judgements that we focus too much on the big mistake and not the many less noticeable good plays, and that defines the criticism of both Gardiner and Marincin.

The only issue I'd see with this pair is Zaitsev wasn't great at getting the puck out of the zone and Marincin hasn't ever had that as his strong point, but Zaitsev never had this extensive a problem with it until this year so I think he can reshape his game to being confident enough in his passing zone exits instead of flipping the puck out, if he gets a chance at easy bottom pair minutes, to be good enough at it to carry Marincin on that issue.

This pair would also set up the rest of the dcore nicely by having our 3rd pair be our 1st PK unit with Marincin being a beastly PKer, and then gives us more minutes of Rielly on PP/ES instead of PK. It also allows the ES pairs to shape up as Rielly-Dermott (who was our 3rd best D and needs a bigger role than bottom pair) and then a proven to work pair of Gardiner-Hainsey.

I can definitely see Dubas forcing Babcock to give Marincin another shot. What would your bottom pair be next season? And if anyone knows where the stats are that show Marincin-Zaitsev worked great as a D-pair it would be great if you linked it in here.

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[A1LeafNation]

Marincin should be in the ahl so he can be good at something for once in his life.

 

[supermann_98]

TLDR, but I never want to see Marincin in a Leaf jersey again. He can’t think the game fast enough at the NHL level.

 

[MR4]

TLDR, but I never want to see Marincin in a Leaf jersey again. He can’t think the game fast enough at the NHL level.

His Corsi rel and GF% rel against decent competition says otherwise.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

A DFD has been on many Leafs fans' wish lists, and we have one in Marincin, the DFD version of Gardiner. Puts up good Corsi rel and GF% rel, and really all that matters is whether you score more than the other team, not whether you look pretty doing it, right?

Marincin-Zaitsev has had very limited minutes as a pair in the past but has shown to be an awesome pair, and I've come around enough to think this would be a beastly bottom pair. Why? Zaitsev was initially an offense focused D when he was brought in showing a higher level of play in his first season than what he's become playing with a more offense focused, more risky D partner in Gardiner that has forced Zaitsev to become something he's not. Zaitsev playing on the bottom pair would be a great spot for him to regain his confidence as an OFD, and would likely start to show signs he can significantly drive play.

So why is Marincin a good fit for Zaitsev's left? Well, that's because one of Zaitsev's worst skills is denying zone entries, when Marincin is elite at it. Just take a look at this article if you disagree: Chad Bradford, Martin Marincin, and the Imperfection of the Human Mind It brings up a good criticism of our judgements that we focus too much on the big mistake and not the many less noticeable good plays, and that defines the criticism of both Gardiner and Marincin.

The only issue I'd see with this pair is Zaitsev wasn't great at getting the puck out of the zone and Marincin hasn't ever had that as his strong point, but Zaitsev never had this extensive a problem with it until this year so I think he can reshape his game to being confident enough in his passing zone exits instead of flipping the puck out, if he gets a chance at easy bottom pair minutes, to be good enough at it to carry Marincin on that issue.

This pair would also set up the rest of the dcore nicely by having our 3rd pair be our 1st PK unit with Marincin being a beastly PKer, and then gives us more minutes of Rielly on PP/ES instead of PK. It also allows the ES pairs to shape up as Rielly-Dermott (who was our 3rd best D and needs a bigger role than bottom pair) and then a proven to work pair of Gardiner-Hainsey.

I can definitely see Dubas forcing Babcock to give Marincin another shot. What would your bottom pair be next season? And if anyone knows where the stats are that show Marincin-Zaitsev worked great as a D-pair it would be great if you linked it in here.

Marincin stinks in the NHL, hell to the no.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

His Corsi rel and GF% rel against decent competition says otherwise.

The eye test says the puck is a grenade on his stick, no thanks.

 

[MR4]

Marincin stinks in the NHL, hell to the no.

Hell to the no he doesn't, had a 2.1 Corsi rel last year.

The eye test says the puck is a grenade on his stick, no thanks.

The eye test shows he's elite at at breaking up zone entries, has had great games, I'm not going to say Gardiner is an AHLer just because he makes some big mistakes if his other plays more than makes up for it.

 

[X66]

Marincin's mental breakdowns it what has kept him out of the line-up, if he could ever put it together he'd be a solid dman, but don't think that'll happen.

I've said in other threads, outside of having the worst right side in the entire NHL, our D pairings IMO lack chemistry with each other. We don't have a single D pairing that fit well together IMHO.

This is why I wished down the stretch when we had the playoffs locked we'd try out new pairings just to test some things. The way Boston abused our right side in that series was flat out embarrassing.

I would have been interested in trying out pairings like

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Carrick

Regardless, going into next season, Zaitsev needs to bounce back, I had zero confidence in him any time the puck was on his stick, it was either going to be a turn-over or an icing.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Marincin doesn't belong in the NHL. Also the last thing I'd want to see is zaitsev with a partner who's even worse with the puck in his own end than he is

 

[Jozay]

I thought we finished the Marincin experiment.

 

[Kiwi]

A DFD has been on many Leafs fans' wish lists, and we have one in Marincin, the DFD version of Gardiner. Puts up good Corsi rel and GF% rel, and really all that matters is whether you score more than the other team, not whether you look pretty doing it, right?

Marincin-Zaitsev has had very limited minutes as a pair in the past but has shown to be an awesome pair, and I've come around enough to think this would be a beastly bottom pair. Why? Zaitsev was initially an offense focused D when he was brought in showing a higher level of play in his first season than what he's become playing with a more offense focused, more risky D partner in Gardiner that has forced Zaitsev to become something he's not. Zaitsev playing on the bottom pair would be a great spot for him to regain his confidence as an OFD, and would likely start to show signs he can significantly drive play.

So why is Marincin a good fit for Zaitsev's left? Well, that's because one of Zaitsev's worst skills is denying zone entries, when Marincin is elite at it. Just take a look at this article if you disagree: Chad Bradford, Martin Marincin, and the Imperfection of the Human Mind It brings up a good criticism of our judgements that we focus too much on the big mistake and not the many less noticeable good plays, and that defines the criticism of both Gardiner and Marincin.

The only issue I'd see with this pair is Zaitsev wasn't great at getting the puck out of the zone and Marincin hasn't ever had that as his strong point, but Zaitsev never had this extensive a problem with it until this year so I think he can reshape his game to being confident enough in his passing zone exits instead of flipping the puck out, if he gets a chance at easy bottom pair minutes, to be good enough at it to carry Marincin on that issue.

This pair would also set up the rest of the dcore nicely by having our 3rd pair be our 1st PK unit with Marincin being a beastly PKer, and then gives us more minutes of Rielly on PP/ES instead of PK. It also allows the ES pairs to shape up as Rielly-Dermott (who was our 3rd best D and needs a bigger role than bottom pair) and then a proven to work pair of Gardiner-Hainsey.

I can definitely see Dubas forcing Babcock to give Marincin another shot. What would your bottom pair be next season? And if anyone knows where the stats are that show Marincin-Zaitsev worked great as a D-pair it would be great if you linked it in here.

Has the coach changed? Because this will only happen over Babcock's cold dead body

 

[Suntouchable13]

If Polak is somehow an NHL D then Mari is too.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

His Corsi rel and GF% rel against decent competition says otherwise.

in 25 games in 2017?
he was absolutely brutal in the playoffs, and that was against fairly easy competition

and before that he had pretty easy competition and did nothing special

 

[MR4]

If Polak is somehow an NHL D then Mari is too.

Marincin's definitely better than Polak, hell the biggest thing about Polak was he was a net creaser even though every shot map showed a sea of red around the net when he's on.

Has the coach changed? Because this will only happen over Babcock's cold dead body

We have Lou's prodigy in charge now, that can be arranged.

I think Dubas will push for Marincin to get 1 more shot.

 

[MR4]

in 25 games in 2017?
he was absolutely brutal in the playoffs, and that was against fairly easy competition

and before that he had pretty easy competition and did nothing special

Yes in 16-17, and I think it was just having Gardiner type bad games at a bad time, even though he was our best at stopping zone entries that whole series (only dman to hold the Caps to a less than 50% zone entry success rate)

Doing nothing special /=/ being bad though, and I'm guessing Zaitsev would be his best partner so far.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Marincin's mental breakdowns it what has kept him out of the line-up, if he could ever put it together he'd be a solid dman, but don't think that'll happen.

I've said in other threads, outside of having the worst right side in the entire NHL, our D pairings IMO lack chemistry with each other. We don't have a single D pairing that fit well together IMHO.

This is why I wished down the stretch when we had the playoffs locked we'd try out new pairings just to test some things. The way Boston abused our right side in that series was flat out embarrassing.

I would have been interested in trying out pairings like

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Carrick

Regardless, going into next season, Zaitsev needs to bounce back, I had zero confidence in him any time the puck was on his stick, it was either going to be a turn-over or an icing.

Gardiner-Rielly should never happen. Gardiner is not good enough and would only drag Rielly down.

 

[Kiwi]

Marincin's definitely better than Polak, hell the biggest thing about Polak was he was a net creaser even though every shot map showed a sea of red around the net when he's on.

We have Lou's prodigy in charge now, that can be arranged.

I think Dubas will push for Marincin to get 1 more shot.

He can try but Babcock has enough power that it won't matter what Dubas wants

Babcock will not play Marincin

 

[Buds17]

We're strong enough on the left side that I don't see Marincin getting that chance to rebound, and perhaps not even being extended a qualifying offer as an RFA.

Don't know if Ozhiganov shows enough to stick regularly, but he should get a good opportunity. Ideally, we can make an outside acquisition to our top six that plays the right side.

 

[Kiwi]

Gardiner-Rielly should never happen. Gardiner is not good enough and would only drag Rielly down.

Well that's completely untrue

Rielly has been carrying Hainsey this season, Gardiner would seem like the greatest upgrade of all time I'm sure

 

[Superstar]

We must have forgotten about who was in front of the net defending when Washington scored the game winner last year in the playoffs to eliminate us. As for calling up Marincin...even Holl is ahead of him. Dubas is no dumba55...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well that's completely untrue

Rielly has been carrying Hainsey this season, Gardiner would seem like the greatest upgrade of all time I'm sure

If it was a pairing that would have worked, then it would have been used more often by the three coaches that they've had together.

 

[Kiwi]

If it was a pairing that would have worked, then it would have been used more often by the three coaches that they've had together.

So an appeal to authority? By that logic Matthews and Marner won't work together because Babcock doesn't play them together.....

We don't play them together because there the only two defenseman on the entire team that can carry a pair

If Dermott develops maybe that changes and we can play them together

 

[Ciao]

I would be surprised if the Leafs offer Marincin a contract, or play him on the Leafs, or pair him with Zaitsev.

I really don't imagine Dubas "making" Babcock do much of anything. Maybe he can make him laugh or a get angry the odd time, but I don't figure this GM will be telling this coach which player to put on the ice this year, if ever.

 

[7even]

I think he's dead to Babcock, but who knows with Dubas. He should be in an NHL training camp this fall but I could easily see him in Europe

 

[Leaf Fans]

I would be surprised if the Leafs offer Marincin a contract, or play him on the Leafs, or pair him with Zaitsev.

I really don't imagine Dubas "making" Babcock do much of anything. Maybe he can make him laugh or a get angry the odd time, but I don't figure this GM will be telling this coach which player to put on the ice this year, if ever.

Yes, this. No competent GM is going to force the coach to play players. He may offer a contract to Marincin a contract, but the coach picks the team. I think any GM would do the same.