Confirmed with Link: Marc Methot to Dallas for 2020 2nd and G - Dylan Ferguson (UPDATE: Signed 3y ELC Contract)

Spartachat

Registered User
Aug 2, 2016
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Greetings from Ottawa. I wish the best to all the Golden Knights fans in Vegas. However, your GM is a real %@%*!
 

Vegas Mac

Golden Shellback
Jun 26, 2015
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Dis is what happens when you don't pay up for player protection.

paulie-walnuts-300x258.jpg

Seems like George & Pierre had some dueling light sabers going on. We can probably eliminate Ottawa now as a potential trade partner in the future. :D
 

Soundgarden

#164303
Jul 22, 2008
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Pretty low return, but I really don't know the behind the scenes part of it, maybe Methot didn't want to go back to Ottawa and GM did him a solid while still getting a 2nd? Who knows.

I will say, even though he's a 7th rounder, getting Ferguson to go along with Zhukov and Patera as well as Outhouse gives us a bigger shot at finding the best goalie in the draft and that's never a bad thing.

Most years the best goalies aren't the ones chosen first, and if we can find the best goalie, or just one or two decent potential starters, it can go a long way in helping us out.
 

BattleBorn

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I think this deal was lost when Ottawa didn't give something up to have McPhee leave Methot alone. Once that happened, GMGM had to follow up and take Methot, who's an older guy that won't be here when they're pushing to make the playoffs.

He tried to play Ottawa and lost, the trade just eliminates the situation. Lose/Lose situation for everyone except Dallas.
 

Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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I think this deal was lost when Ottawa didn't give something up to have McPhee leave Methot alone. Once that happened, GMGM had to follow up and take Methot, who's an older guy that won't be here when they're pushing to make the playoffs.

He tried to play Ottawa and lost, the trade just eliminates the situation. Lose/Lose situation for everyone except Dallas.

Given your scenario McPhee probably didn't do all that badly. There were probably worse deals out there and there was the list of teams he was willing to go to.

Dare we say there was a Methot to his madness?
 

BattleBorn

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Given your scenario McPhee probably didn't do all that badly. There were probably worse deals out there and there was the list of teams he was willing to go to.

Dare we say there was a Methot to his madness?

I don't think he did well either. It's just that every older guy you've got on the ice while you're not winning takes a spot from a younger guy you think will be here when it's time to win.

He lost out on a 1st rounder trying to play hardball with Ottawa, and got a 2nd a few years from now and a goalie instead. I think Methot was never in the plans for the opening day roster. I now kind of wonder if Ottawa would have been better throwing a 2nd and a prospect to keep Methot.
 

Sleestak Nation

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Jul 6, 2009
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I don't think he did well either. It's just that every older guy you've got on the ice while you're not winning takes a spot from a younger guy you think will be here when it's time to win.

He lost out on a 1st rounder trying to play hardball with Ottawa, and got a 2nd a few years from now and a goalie instead. I think Methot was never in the plans for the opening day roster.

I think I agree with this. It was a gambit by GMGM and it didn't come off.

Also easy for Dorion to play the "I woulda given more ..." card, after the fact.

Now, onto Emelin.
 

Mike Jones

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It's just that every older guy you've got on the ice while you're not winning takes a spot from a younger guy you think will be here when it's time to win.

Expansion teams have historically had to play older guys and AHL types mainly because they don't have any NHL-ready prospects ready to go. It usually takes a couple of years before draft picks develop, graduate from their respective programs and make their mark for a new organization.

I know the Knights are in a slightly different situation given the unique expansion draft process they were involved in but are there any prospects in a position to bump the older guys right off the bat?
 

BattleBorn

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I don't know that it's any different, but it appears GMGM put a pretty major premium on youth throughout the process.
 

BattleBorn

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He has and I agree with that overall direction but are there enough to push the old guys?

Depends on how many old guys we have in October. :laugh:

To answer, I've got no clue. I don't think we're close to the roster's final form at this point.
 

Seedling

Tier 7 fan (ballcap)
Jul 16, 2009
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I heard the guys on NHL radio talking about what is happening to the market for Vegas. Basically one GM, off record, said that they know that Vegas has no choice at this point but to move several players or lose them to waivers in the fall so the returns are very low from GMs who were not happy to lose players in the first place. The balance is shifting in terms of leverage. I'd get all those deals done ASAP if I was GMGM. Free agency this year is pretty crappy but there are still lots of guys to "fill spots" if you want them. Pretty much nothing happens about ten days after free agency until the second buyout window. Time to make hay while there is still some sun IMO.
 

BattleBorn

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I heard the guys on NHL radio talking about what is happening to the market for Vegas. Basically one GM, off record, said that they know that Vegas has no choice at this point but to move several players or lose them to waivers in the fall so the returns are very low from GMs who were not happy to lose players in the first place. The balance is shifting in terms of leverage. I'd get all those deals done ASAP if I was GMGM. Free agency this year is pretty crappy but there are still lots of guys to "fill spots" if you want them. Pretty much nothing happens about ten days after free agency until the second buyout window. Time to make hay while there is still some sun IMO.

Wait out free agency and I figure he'll get some bites.

There's definitely a supply-demand thing going on with the Knights having too much supply. A few GMs are going to lose on their targets in FA, that's where you dump the D.
 

CupInSIX

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What was all that stuff about last Monday's 'auction'? Best offers he got were TVR for a 3rd and a 5th for Schlemko?
 

Seedling

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Wait out free agency and I figure he'll get some bites.

There's definitely a supply-demand thing going on with the Knights having too much supply. A few GMs are going to lose on their targets in FA, that's where you dump the D.

Yeah. This year's UFA crop is terrible. Most of the good guys have already signed and we know there are teams that can use these players. It will happen. Hopefully the market is strong in terms of pricing.
 

Mike Jones

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Apr 12, 2007
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When we were building up to the expansion draft I kind of figured (But forget where I mentioned it first) that there would be two times when McPhee could gather the picks and prospects he'd need to kickstart the Knights. The first was prior to the expansion draft (mission accomplished) and the second was the first (2018) trade deadline (Assuming Vegas isn't in a playoff chase that is). It sounds like this is the case as the post draft deals just aren't there.

He may have to lose a player or two to waivers before the season starts but that seems to be the way of things now.

In terms of his defense his players all have only one year left on their contracts so that should come in handy next March.
 

Sleestak Nation

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He may have to lose a player or two to waivers before the season starts but that seems to be the way of things now.

In terms of his defense his players all have only one year left on their contracts so that should come in handy next March.

This is truth. I'd much rather get assets in return for players (who wouldn't), but having a couple enter waivers that were excess to requirements isn't the end of the world.
 

Blue Goose

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May 26, 2012
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Expansion teams have historically had to play older guys and AHL types mainly because they don't have any NHL-ready prospects ready to go. It usually takes a couple of years before draft picks develop, graduate from their respective programs and make their mark for a new organization.

I know the Knights are in a slightly different situation given the unique expansion draft process they were involved in but are there any prospects in a position to bump the older guys right off the bat?

I assume McPhee doesn't want to risk losing Leipsic/Nosek/Carrier to waivers, so I'd imagine they'll be on the opening day roster (even if they're healthy scratches). If Duke/Tuch/Hyka/Kolesar all go the AHL (like they should), and we go ahead and send Pulkkinen down as well, that still leaves us with 13 forwards under contract going into the UFA period on July 1. Honestly, it's one of the reasons I don't think we'll be too active in signing UFA's - other than maybe Dadonov - because we just don't have the roster space to put them anywhere. Younger rebuilding teams like us would be smart to sign UFA's to 1-year deals and flip them at the deadline; well, we already got those players in the expansion draft, so no need to sign any more...

I heard the guys on NHL radio talking about what is happening to the market for Vegas. Basically one GM, off record, said that they know that Vegas has no choice at this point but to move several players or lose them to waivers in the fall so the returns are very low from GMs who were not happy to lose players in the first place. The balance is shifting in terms of leverage. I'd get all those deals done ASAP if I was GMGM. Free agency this year is pretty crappy but there are still lots of guys to "fill spots" if you want them. Pretty much nothing happens about ten days after free agency until the second buyout window. Time to make hay while there is still some sun IMO.

I've never really bought into this theory, because the other GM's all knew we couldn't keep at least 7 of the expansion draft selections - and since I wasn't expecting McPhee to pick 7 UFA's, I think it all boiled down to grabbing some guys that could be flipped for picks. It may seem like we got peanuts for Schlemko/Methot, but that's what the market dictated - this might explain why we didn't take any extra goalies either. And to those who say we should have just held onto them until the trade deadline, where exactly do we put them? To me, you take what you can get now and free up the roster spot for either a younger player OR one of the expansion picks who doesn't have much value now but should at the deadline (Garrison, Perron, etc.). In Methot's case, he had a NTC and Dallas took on his full salary - that's a win to me. Now we still have three salary retention slots to use throughout the season, since we know there's going to be plenty of trades.

Wait out free agency and I figure he'll get some bites.

There's definitely a supply-demand thing going on with the Knights having too much supply. A few GMs are going to lose on their targets in FA, that's where you dump the D.

I like this idea. Also, I think we could be at a point where we can take on a forward with an expensive-but-expiring contract (plus a pick/prospect) in order to dump Emelin/Sbisa. We're loaded with centers, but we could probably use a couple of depth wingers for the bottom 6 - and if the contract is bad enough, we could just send them down to the AHL knowing no one will claim them (or hope that they do) and still keep the pick/prospect.
 

Seedling

Tier 7 fan (ballcap)
Jul 16, 2009
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It's a tough balancing act for sure. There is no doubt that to me that most of those impending UFAs were picked to get 2018 picks at the deadline that were not freely given during the draft or expansion draft. They should all net some pretty good picks IMO. Still, it's hard to keep them all as the last poster pointed out.

It's really hard to get a good gauge on how well GMGM did because you have to figure there are a lot of handshake things that will occur in the future too.

It is the most interesting thing to watch though. I've really enjoyed this whole process. It's probably the only time I've watched the awards show in about ten years. :lol:
 

Vegas Mac

Golden Shellback
Jun 26, 2015
563
195
I don't know that it's any different, but it appears GMGM put a pretty major premium on youth throughout the process.

No doubt. And it's hard to blame him for taking that approach. I also think their plan for the first year does not include a big playoff push; it probably accepts that they won't make the playoffs and doing so would only serve to limit their options in the 2018 draft.

It is also possible that the value fans attach to Methot is not the same value as teams have on him. Starting to seem that way tbh, as I have to think Ottawa would have played protection games with him to begin with, and post expac draft one of the teams that needs defensemen would have offered George better than the package he got from Dallas. Something just wasn't right about the whole thing from the beginning.

I mean the market is what it is. And teams can say "it's time to pay George back for holding us hostage" all they want but if the guy is seen the way the fans see him
I have to think some team would have ponied up more for him.
 

airbus220

Registered User
Feb 19, 2012
3,872
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The philosophy they used in the expansion draft was definitely not good. I would have drafted Sbisa only if I had a deal in place to trade him later, otherwise I would have drafted someone I would want to keep, obviously someone with nearly the same value. Now they have Sbisa whom they don't want to keep and can't get rid of easily too. This is just bad management.

When doing trades you need to be patient, much time is left to figure things out, there is no need to rush things.
The 2nd round pick in 2020 for Fleury would have been a 4th/5th round pick in 2017. Instead of this low pick I would have taken Rust. With this bad team we will have there is no need for Fleury. I can already see it, we won't develop Pickard and in 2 years everything was wasted.
Wasted, sad we got the Erat McPhee.
 

BattleBorn

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There were teams they didn't want anyone from. They could have signed a UFA, but they had to have the right number of people under contract. So, instead you take someone that might have value, you throw them out there for trades a few times and if it doesn't work? Send them through waivers, the end result is the same as if you'd have just drafted a UFA, but you took a shot.
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
Jul 1, 2012
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Well, they did get a 2nd for TVR and turned that pick into a prospect in Jake Leschyshyn.

Pick 62 though, which is usually a 3rd rounder in previous drafts without compensation picks. And they sent Carolina a 7th.

An OK trade but that and the Schlemko deal were the only ones pre-arranged, possibly during the 'auction' phase McPhee held after teams submitted their protected lists.

I doubt that's what McPhee had in mind when he told teams to call him with offers on unprotected players.
 

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